Wine via rail

[gabe]

Someone asked me if the wine I enjoyed last night was shipped via rail. That leads me to a good question. I seem to remember someone telling me on here that they actuall do ship wine in tank cars.

Is this true? I find this hard to imagine. If you know anything about wine, the exposure to the heat of a tank car would be horrible for its development. I would think it would be vinegar before it hit the store shelf.

I am told they ship beer via rail, but it is more a "pre-beer" malt rather than the finished product.

On a slightly different tact, does anyone know if they serve fine wine on fine passenger trains? I would think the rocking of the car would stir up the sediment too much to make it reasonably drinkable.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

I'll give you this Gabe, you do know a bit about your wine. Hear Hear - Roy

[CShaveRR]

If wine is still shipped in tank cars, it would be out of California--haven't seen it done elsewhere for a long time. Gabe, insulation on tank cars can keep things at a reasonable temperature for quite a while.

In the 1970s and 80s, there used to be quite a few three- and four-compartment GATX tank cars in a Wine Car Pool. I've seen these same cars recently on occasion, no longer being used for wine. And yes, I'm old enough to remember tank cars with five and six domed compartments, also used in wine service--some of them in Michigan.

[jeaton]

Wine trivia. Did you know that wine connoisseurs got so good at it that they could identify the car number that was used to ship the wine?

Congress mandated that the wines served by Amtrak be the cheapest that money can buy. Sediment or no, just barely drinkable.

It has been reported that the restaurant at the top of Chicago's John Hancock building kept wine at the bottom of the building because the swaying of the building would stir the sediment.

If I was riding on a high end tourist passenger train, I'd be happy to drink the wine, sediment and all.

I am sure this add greatly to this topic.

And no, I haven't had any wine to drink today, but I am going to have a cold beer.

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

Someone asked me if the wine I enjoyed last night was shipped via rail. That leads me to a good question. I seem to remember someone telling me on here that they actuall do ship wine in tank cars.

Is this true? I find this hard to imagine. If you know anything about wine, the exposure to the heat of a tank car would be horrible for its development. I would think it would be vinegar before it hit the store shelf.

I am told they ship beer via rail, but it is more a "pre-beer" malt rather than the finished product.

On a slightly different tact, does anyone know if they serve fine wine on fine passenger trains? I would think the rocking of the car would stir up the sediment too much to make it reasonably drinkable.

Gabe

Hi Gabe,

Beer rides the rails. Trains recently had an article about Coors. They ship beer out of Golden by rail. At the old ICG we handled Strohs/Slitz out of Memphis (brewery now owend by Coors) and moved imported Becks north from its port of entry at New Orleans.

I'm sure other breweries, besides Coors, use rail.

Coors ships "pre-beer" out of Golden in tank cars because they're stuck with their use of "Rocky Mountain Water", so they can't do complete brewing in places like Memphis.
They "tank car" it to destinations outside Colorado and bottle/can it there.

Wine moved out of southern California in tank cars. The southern California wines were the cheap wines and moved east in bulk. I don't know if this still happens. The norhtern California wines (better) always moved in bottles. The rails handled it and I'm sure they still do.

Did you know that Mogan David was once made in Chicago and that made Illinois a leading wine producing state. Of course, the grapes came in from California.

[beaulieu]

Also wine is commonly moved in tank containers as is whiskey.

[JSGreen]

I recently toured the Anheiser-Bush Plant in Saint Louis. They ship carloads of packeged (Bottles, kegs?) out to large distributors...and some raw materials in by rail. I was surprised to learn (from the guide) that maybe 80% of the grain they use comes in by barge!

By the way, I would recommend the Budwiser tour to anyone...and not just for the free tasting at the end!

[ericsp]

Don't forget wine shipped in RBLs (insulated boxcars). E&J Gallo ships considerable amounts of bottle wine in RBLs from its Modesto winery (H MODSEL on BNSF). I have also seen RBLs come from at least one other winery that are put on the QFRNPP (UP).

There is a winery around there that used to ship wine in tankcars, GATX 39990 and GATX 94900 series. I have not seen these cars in a few years. Now they ship quite a bit of grape juice concentrate in tankcars, still mainly GATX but single compartment.

[gabe]

Thanks for the response. If I bring home a bottle of wine in the back of my trunk for more than a 30 minute car ridel, I can tell the difference. It is hard for me to imagine it surviving a rail ride.

Interesting responses though.

Gabe

[BNSFNUT]

The Bath and Hammonsport RR in upstate NY shipped wine in tank cars for years.
Most inbound wine was for blending with the local product. Kalmbach had a book called Six Railroads that you can model that covered the B&H and covered what was shipped in and out.

[Anonymous]

BNSF ships a LOT of wine for Gallo out of Modesto, CA, originating on the M&ET (Modesto and Empire Traction) Railway, mostly to Chicago gateways and to the Southeast. But it is all in box cars, mostly 60 footers. No tanks at all.
Beer is shipped both as wort (prebeer) in tank cars, and as finished product in box cars. Virtually all of the major, American at least, brewers ship by rail.

[mudchicken]

Gabe:

(1) AOE puts some pretty expensive stuff on their train. (pricey, like everything else on the train)

(2) As grif stated, Gallo (all of 'em), ship out of Modesto on the M&ET. Some of the medium sized Vintners (Fetzer et. al.)cross-dock their wine in cases in insulated boxes for the trip east and north ...out of the bay area. I've also seen Washington Yakima valley wine go out in boxcars along with Temecula (So Cal) wine going out of Oceanside and Hemet on ATSF.

Never saw wine go out in tank cars (Mad Dog 20/20 and Thunderbird fortified wine?) Have seen Heinz vinegar and olive oil go by way of tank car along with distilled spirits (Including the Seagrams car that fell off the Uncle John's car ferry in the early 70's and became a submarine- never completely sank into SF Bay)

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

(2) As grif stated, Gallo (all of 'em), ship out of Modesto on the M&ET. Some of the medium sized Vintners (Fetzer et. al.)cross-dock their wine in cases in insulated boxes for the trip east and north ...out of the bay area. I've also seen Washington Yakima valley wine go out in boxcars along with Temecula (So Cal) wine going out of Oceanside and Hemet on ATSF.

Never saw wine go out in tank cars (Mad Dog 20/20 and Thunderbird fortified wine?) Have seen Heinz vinegar and olive oil go by way of tank car along with distilled spirits (Including the Seagrams car that fell off the Uncle John's car ferry in the early 70's and became a submarine- never completely sank into SF Bay)

Did everybody miss my first post?

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Don't forget wine shipped in RBLs (insulated boxcars). E&J Gallo ships considerable amounts of bottle wine in RBLs from its Modesto winery (H MODSEL on BNSF). I have also seen RBLs come from at least one other winery that are put on the QFRNPP (UP).

There is a winery around there that used to ship wine in tankcars, GATX 39990 and GATX 94900 series. I have not seen these cars in a few years. Now they ship quite a bit of grape juice concentrate in tankcars, still mainly GATX but single compartment.

[chad thomas]

I used to live next to the Bud brewery in Van Nuys, Ca. and they kept the SP busy switching the plant at least 3 times a day. Lots of hopps in and boxcars out.

The cars on the right are empties waiting to be loaded. The lead to the plant (right track) runs all the way back to Gemco yard (about 2 miles) so the brewery can be switched without interfering with the main. They usually switched with 2 SW1500s.

[CopCarSS]

Gabe,

I wouldn't worry about the temperature change too much. It's been awhile, but the last time I took the Coors brewery tour, they stressed the three enemies of beer: heat, age and light. If I remember right the temperature drop on the glass-lined tanks headed back east was somewhere along the lines of 1/2ºF per day. I'm sure that wine would be shipped in a similar fashion.

Might have to head over to Coors on Saturday now! All in the name of research of course! [;)]

[Anonymous]

Quote-
Did you know that Mogan David was once made in Chicago and that made Illinois a leading wine producing state. Of course, the grapes came in from California.Unquote-
No Mogen David is of the the Concord Type and uses New York grapes from WestfieldNY. Matter of fact they use the same grapes Welches uses. Welches ships grape juice concentrate by tank car

[csxns]

Wine is shipped to North Carolina in boxcars and intermodal trailers and a few tractor trailers.

[Rodney Beck]

Beer and wine is shipped by rail in boxcars, containers and trailors on the BNSF it is not uncommon for any frieght train going to Chicago not to have beer and wine.

Rodney

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Gabe:

(1) AOE puts some pretty expensive stuff on their train. (pricey, like everything else on the train)

(2) As grif stated, Gallo (all of 'em), ship out of Modesto on the M&ET. Some of the medium sized Vintners (Fetzer et. al.)cross-dock their wine in cases in insulated boxes for the trip east and north ...out of the bay area. I've also seen Washington Yakima valley wine go out in boxcars along with Temecula (So Cal) wine going out of Oceanside and Hemet on ATSF.

Never saw wine go out in tank cars (Mad Dog 20/20 and Thunderbird fortified wine?) Have seen Heinz vinegar and olive oil go by way of tank car along with distilled spirits (Including the Seagrams car that fell off the Uncle John's car ferry in the early 70's and became a submarine- never completely sank into SF Bay)

CShaveRR Posted: 04 Jul 2006, 15:27:20
If wine is still shipped in tank cars, it would be out of California--haven't seen it done elsewhere for a long time. Gabe, insulation on tank cars can keep things at a reasonable temperature for quite a while.

In the 1970s and 80s, there used to be quite a few three- and four-compartment GATX tank cars in a Wine Car Pool. I've seen these same cars recently on occasion, no longer being used for wine. And yes, I'm old enough to remember tank cars with five and six domed compartments, also used in wine service--some of them in Michigan.

For a number of years from the sixties to the eightys, Southwestern Wine Co. in Memphis received wine in tank cars [the small mu;tiple domed, as mentioned byCShaveRR]. One of my school acquaintences was son of an owner, [ the joke line with him was that you could tell the quality of the wine by the number of domes on the tank car parked behind the plant]. THey packaged a number of "fine" wines in the quality of MD20/20 and Thunderbird and Wild Irish Rose to name some I remember.Sorry Bergie, I do not think there were enough Scandanavians down South to make Gloog an item there! I is probably too strong a drink for the local wine "connoissewers"[:-,][(-D][(-D][(-D]

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

If wine is still shipped in tank cars, it would be out of California--haven't seen it done elsewhere for a long time. Gabe, insulation on tank cars can keep things at a reasonable temperature for quite a while.

In the 1970s and 80s, there used to be quite a few three- and four-compartment GATX tank cars in a Wine Car Pool. I've seen these same cars recently on occasion, no longer being used for wine. And yes, I'm old enough to remember tank cars with five and six domed compartments, also used in wine service--some of them in Michigan.

Carl, I just checked with GATX. Of the two series that used to haul wine out of the are only GATX 94904 and GATX 94905 still exist, and they are not listed as wine service anymore.

As an interesting side note, I found that GATX 94980 is only 29'-2" long. That car would be interesting to see.

All three of the above tankcars were built in 1966, so they probably will not be around much longer.

[Anonymous]

As noted above, a lot of wine and beer move via intermodal. Wines from Northern Calif. ship all over the country. This is finished, bottled product in cases, on pallets. The same applies to beer.

Sometimes it moves in refrigerated trailers or containers but mostly it just moves in dry-van trailers (non-insulated.) In winter months it might be blanket wrapped, but that's about it.

Kinda makes me laugh at the work that wine-snobs put into maintaining their wine at a certain temp, etc. ... in spite of the fact that, while in transit, it spent days and thousands of miles in an ordinary trailer.

By the way, when these products are moving (truck or rail) they can withstand a few degrees colder temps because the motion (rocking, shaking, vibration) inhibits freezing.

[jsanchez]

The State of Pennsylvania Liquor stores get many boxcar loads of wine and have increased the amount received by rail over the last few years, they mostly arrive in BNSF or ATSF boxcars and are off loaded in the Scranton area.

[gacuster]

Here in Manitowoc, WI Anheuser Busch operates a big malting plant that is a major customer for CN. Covered hoppers loaded with grain in, carloads of malt out headed for the brewery.

[ericsp]

Gabe, if you don't drink wine shipped by rail, the terrorist win.[;)]

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

Gabe, if you don't drink wine shipped by rail, the terrorist win.[;)]

Amercica, things that I love, high quality french wine. America, things that I love, high quality Frech wine, Americant . . . . .

Did I mention the wing of the Beatty Ford Center was named after me?

Gabe

[jeaton]

Don't you mean Freedom Wine?