"NO-MAN TRAINS."

[Anonymous]

"NO-MAN TRAINS."

In the September, 2003 issue of Trains magazine there was an article regarding the use of "Remote Control Devices" that would eliminate more people, "Engineers" operating the Locomotives. The Locomotives would be controled by a "Person" utilizing this Remote Control Device in Yard Service and possibly over the road service.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS! How can this Remote Control Device account for Over-the-Road knowledge/experience that an Engineer has acquired while operating engines and handling trains of various lengths and tonages over very different types of territories.

The Railroads are trying to cut costs to compete with the Trucking industry, to attempt to bust the unions, etc. They got rid of Firemen, Brakemen, Cabooses, and are trying to go to One-man operations.

I think this is a VERY BIG MISTAKE, and needs lots of discussion.

I realize that times, and technology are changing, BUT personally feel this should not be done!

[Anonymous]

"NO-MAN TRAINS."

In the September, 2003 issue of Trains magazine there was an article regarding the use of "Remote Control Devices" that would eliminate more people, "Engineers" operating the Locomotives. The Locomotives would be controled by a "Person" utilizing this Remote Control Device in Yard Service and possibly over the road service.

THIS IS RIDICULOUS! How can this Remote Control Device account for Over-the-Road knowledge/experience that an Engineer has acquired while operating engines and handling trains of various lengths and tonages over very different types of territories.

The Railroads are trying to cut costs to compete with the Trucking industry, to attempt to bust the unions, etc. They got rid of Firemen, Brakemen, Cabooses, and are trying to go to One-man operations.

I think this is a VERY BIG MISTAKE, and needs lots of discussion.

I realize that times, and technology are changing, BUT personally feel this should not be done!

[David3]

Well I think it actully could be done in the yards[:(]. But I don't think there is any way they can do it on the mainlines[:D][:)][8D][;)][:p]!!!!!

[David3]

Well I think it actully could be done in the yards[:(]. But I don't think there is any way they can do it on the mainlines[:D][:)][8D][;)][:p]!!!!!

[redflasher1]

While trying to find my way around Lacrosse, WI, I went by a rail yard with warning signs regarding remote control locomotives. To see one of them moving along with no engineer inside is truly an eerie sight. I don't know which railroad this was because I was totally lost, running behind schedule, and listening to my wife female dog at me.

[redflasher1]

While trying to find my way around Lacrosse, WI, I went by a rail yard with warning signs regarding remote control locomotives. To see one of them moving along with no engineer inside is truly an eerie sight. I don't know which railroad this was because I was totally lost, running behind schedule, and listening to my wife female dog at me.

[Anonymous]

Remote control trains may have potential in yard applications, but a 10,000 ton freight rolling on the main line at 60mph without an engineer is a scary thought!

[Anonymous]

Remote control trains may have potential in yard applications, but a 10,000 ton freight rolling on the main line at 60mph without an engineer is a scary thought!

[aussiesteve]

In the north of Western Australia the Pilbara iron ore rr's operate with the mid train loco's remotely controlled from the lead loco. I have heard that occasionally remotely controlled pushers are detached from the train on the fly and then attached to the next train in the oppostite direction all without anyone boarding them.[:)]

As for unmanned remote controlled trains hundreds if not thousands of km's from the nearest depot as can happen out here what happens when things fail????? [:(]

[aussiesteve]

In the north of Western Australia the Pilbara iron ore rr's operate with the mid train loco's remotely controlled from the lead loco. I have heard that occasionally remotely controlled pushers are detached from the train on the fly and then attached to the next train in the oppostite direction all without anyone boarding them.[:)]

As for unmanned remote controlled trains hundreds if not thousands of km's from the nearest depot as can happen out here what happens when things fail????? [:(]

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Remote control in yards looks practicable because the railroad has more control of the yard environment. Remote control over the road is unlikely for the converse reason, there are too many outside factors (such as grade crossings) that cannot be easily controlled.
It's interesting to note that remote control in yard-type environments has been around for a while in non-common-carrier operations (steel mills, coal mine tipples, open-pit copper & iron ore mines) with a fair amount of success.
I agree with one sentiment, seeing BRC GP38-2's in pulldown duty at Clearing with nobody in the cab is indeed an eerie sight.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Remote control in yards looks practicable because the railroad has more control of the yard environment. Remote control over the road is unlikely for the converse reason, there are too many outside factors (such as grade crossings) that cannot be easily controlled.
It's interesting to note that remote control in yard-type environments has been around for a while in non-common-carrier operations (steel mills, coal mine tipples, open-pit copper & iron ore mines) with a fair amount of success.
I agree with one sentiment, seeing BRC GP38-2's in pulldown duty at Clearing with nobody in the cab is indeed an eerie sight.

[Anonymous]

My dad works at a potash mine that used to use remote switchers. Right now he works at a computer in the control center of the mine, but he used to more mechanical work outside, which included switching cars at times. The mine used to use three switchers, a GE 44-ton center cab and two smaller switchers (they use trackmobiles now) which could be operated either from the cab or by remote control. The mine actually experimented with remote control back in the 60's, but it was very unrealiable, so they got rid of it. In the late 70's they got a new system. It didn't always work perfectly, though. Sometimes the remote controls wouldn't respond correctly and there would be minor accidents. One thing my dad's told me (which I actually find quite funny) is that one time one of the switchers had supposedly been shut down, but actually ended up leaving the mine and going out onto the main line. It went for over a mile away and no one knew that it was gone until the crew of a CN frieght called in to the mine.

[Anonymous]

My dad works at a potash mine that used to use remote switchers. Right now he works at a computer in the control center of the mine, but he used to more mechanical work outside, which included switching cars at times. The mine used to use three switchers, a GE 44-ton center cab and two smaller switchers (they use trackmobiles now) which could be operated either from the cab or by remote control. The mine actually experimented with remote control back in the 60's, but it was very unrealiable, so they got rid of it. In the late 70's they got a new system. It didn't always work perfectly, though. Sometimes the remote controls wouldn't respond correctly and there would be minor accidents. One thing my dad's told me (which I actually find quite funny) is that one time one of the switchers had supposedly been shut down, but actually ended up leaving the mine and going out onto the main line. It went for over a mile away and no one knew that it was gone until the crew of a CN frieght called in to the mine.

[Anonymous]

nnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooo way its like a truck running down the road w/o a driver sounds like somthing out of the twilightzone

[Anonymous]

nnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooo way its like a truck running down the road w/o a driver sounds like somthing out of the twilightzone

[heavyd]

Nobody will have to worry about remotes on the main line EVER!!! When I hired on for CP earlier this year all of the trainees in my class were worried about job security because of remotes! Remotes are never going to cost somebody their job! Agreed that more could be more employed if the jobs went conventional, but way too many engineers and conductors are retiring now. In fact most railroads are hurting because of lack of people, (they just won't admit it because more people cost $.) If a pool engineer has to be demoted to run the "box" either their railway is wierd or his senority is really bad anyway. Any seasoned veteran will never have to work remote jobs. At CP you could walk off the street, go through the regular 5 month conductor training program, extra two weeks of remote control training and there you go!!! I think that is ok for yard work. Remotes are "safe". We had two man crews, one person was always at the point. This ment that someone was always in the engine anyways, kinda stupid right? They would work the remote box while sitting in the engineer's seat! The remotes were CANAC. The locos had a max speed of only ten MPH. Our instructors told us remotes will be in every yard at some point in the future but never on the main line! There are just way too many variables to overcome. The biggest issue was public safety. No city would ever allow a train to roll through unmanned at track speed! What if there was a stalled car, people walking on the tracks, what ever...
The railroads know they would have to employ people to gaurd important locations, which cost money so will never happen or rebuild their entire system to elminate all grade crossing with over or under passes, could you imagine that cost!!!
Some people argue about having only the engineer. What you will probably see is the elimination of crew-change locations and have run-through operation. Trains would have two engineers and they would take turns. Instead of 6 - 12 hour runs you would have 12- 36 hour runs!!! If you think railroads won't do that because engines don;t have beds, think again, they don't care! Unions aren't as strong as they used to be. Unions are a business just like any other, out to make a profit! This is just my opinion and I know this is a little off topic but I think they care more about making a profit than doing what is right for the workers, example "CONDUCTOR ONLY" agreement which cut out the trainman!

[heavyd]

Nobody will have to worry about remotes on the main line EVER!!! When I hired on for CP earlier this year all of the trainees in my class were worried about job security because of remotes! Remotes are never going to cost somebody their job! Agreed that more could be more employed if the jobs went conventional, but way too many engineers and conductors are retiring now. In fact most railroads are hurting because of lack of people, (they just won't admit it because more people cost $.) If a pool engineer has to be demoted to run the "box" either their railway is wierd or his senority is really bad anyway. Any seasoned veteran will never have to work remote jobs. At CP you could walk off the street, go through the regular 5 month conductor training program, extra two weeks of remote control training and there you go!!! I think that is ok for yard work. Remotes are "safe". We had two man crews, one person was always at the point. This ment that someone was always in the engine anyways, kinda stupid right? They would work the remote box while sitting in the engineer's seat! The remotes were CANAC. The locos had a max speed of only ten MPH. Our instructors told us remotes will be in every yard at some point in the future but never on the main line! There are just way too many variables to overcome. The biggest issue was public safety. No city would ever allow a train to roll through unmanned at track speed! What if there was a stalled car, people walking on the tracks, what ever...
The railroads know they would have to employ people to gaurd important locations, which cost money so will never happen or rebuild their entire system to elminate all grade crossing with over or under passes, could you imagine that cost!!!
Some people argue about having only the engineer. What you will probably see is the elimination of crew-change locations and have run-through operation. Trains would have two engineers and they would take turns. Instead of 6 - 12 hour runs you would have 12- 36 hour runs!!! If you think railroads won't do that because engines don;t have beds, think again, they don't care! Unions aren't as strong as they used to be. Unions are a business just like any other, out to make a profit! This is just my opinion and I know this is a little off topic but I think they care more about making a profit than doing what is right for the workers, example "CONDUCTOR ONLY" agreement which cut out the trainman!

[sooblue]

There was a single motor home accident in MN. a few weeks back on interstate 35 near a small town that one of my friends lives in. it was one of the big motor homes.
My friend said that the driver of the motor home had just recently bought it and was taking it out on a trip for the first time. He got up to hwy speed and then put it into cruise contol, then he got up to make a pot of coffee. The motor home crashed.
Still alive after the accident he was asked what happend and he told them that there was something wrong with the cruise control.[:D][:D][:D]

Sooblue

QUOTE: Originally posted by lawyer

nnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooo way its like a truck running down the road w/o a driver sounds like somthing out of the twilightzone

[sooblue]

There was a single motor home accident in MN. a few weeks back on interstate 35 near a small town that one of my friends lives in. it was one of the big motor homes.
My friend said that the driver of the motor home had just recently bought it and was taking it out on a trip for the first time. He got up to hwy speed and then put it into cruise contol, then he got up to make a pot of coffee. The motor home crashed.
Still alive after the accident he was asked what happend and he told them that there was something wrong with the cruise control.[:D][:D][:D]

Sooblue

QUOTE: Originally posted by lawyer

nnnnnnnooooooooooooooooooooo way its like a truck running down the road w/o a driver sounds like somthing out of the twilightzone

[TH&B]

Before anyone even starts to talk about remote control trains, you gotta get rid of every public and private level crossing and have the whole railroad securely fenced off. Sounds to me like that alone would cost too much.

[TH&B]

Before anyone even starts to talk about remote control trains, you gotta get rid of every public and private level crossing and have the whole railroad securely fenced off. Sounds to me like that alone would cost too much.

[Anonymous]

Someone in this group had better notify American Electric Power that the TWO automated coal trains that they ran in Southeastern Ohio without incident for 30+ years cannot have happened. They were operated with "off the shelf" 5000 HP electric locomotives and standard 100 ton hopper cars (with automated dumping mechanisms). The trains even sounded their horns for the crossings, of which there were several.

Amazingly this was a single track operation and usually both trainsets were active and running. The loaded set would wait at the mine until the empty returned to the loading track. Then the loaded train would proceed to the dumping site, dump the coal and immendiately return.

Watching the engine go past without any crew was strange enough, but the return trips to the mine was even stranger. Try watching a hopper car come at you with operating headlight and horns! AEP stopped using the trains because the strip mine got close enough to the power plant to simply use a conveyor belt. Outside of the usual startup glitches you get with a new system there was no problems with this operation.

[Anonymous]

Someone in this group had better notify American Electric Power that the TWO automated coal trains that they ran in Southeastern Ohio without incident for 30+ years cannot have happened. They were operated with "off the shelf" 5000 HP electric locomotives and standard 100 ton hopper cars (with automated dumping mechanisms). The trains even sounded their horns for the crossings, of which there were several.

Amazingly this was a single track operation and usually both trainsets were active and running. The loaded set would wait at the mine until the empty returned to the loading track. Then the loaded train would proceed to the dumping site, dump the coal and immendiately return.

Watching the engine go past without any crew was strange enough, but the return trips to the mine was even stranger. Try watching a hopper car come at you with operating headlight and horns! AEP stopped using the trains because the strip mine got close enough to the power plant to simply use a conveyor belt. Outside of the usual startup glitches you get with a new system there was no problems with this operation.

[TH&B]

If it ever hit someone at the crossing, would it know? how would help be called?
I once heard of a container terminal in Germany where the train would pull in and all the containers were off loaded and sorted automaticaly, preprogrammed. One major problem was that once this comlex was in operation you had to be sure no one was in there or they could get crushed by the cranes and convayers. This included train personel, people repairing or inspecting equipement and tresspassers. It was considered dangerous. One other quirk was misinformation on one container could make all the rest get sorted wrong. I have no idea if they still try to use this place.

[TH&B]

If it ever hit someone at the crossing, would it know? how would help be called?
I once heard of a container terminal in Germany where the train would pull in and all the containers were off loaded and sorted automaticaly, preprogrammed. One major problem was that once this comlex was in operation you had to be sure no one was in there or they could get crushed by the cranes and convayers. This included train personel, people repairing or inspecting equipement and tresspassers. It was considered dangerous. One other quirk was misinformation on one container could make all the rest get sorted wrong. I have no idea if they still try to use this place.

[Anonymous]

UN MANNED TRAINS IS THE FUTURE BUT ITS STUPID
THERES TO MANY IDIOTS ON THE ROAD TODAY
IVE SEEN PEOPLE PULL IN FRONT OF A 65MPH TRAIN IN GRAND PRARIE TX JUST FOR SOME MONEY IF THEY LIVED THEY HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO GET OUT OF THE WAT OR OUT OF THE CAR THEY WAS DEAD CENTER (DRIVERS SIDE DOOR FACING TRAIN) BUT BACKED UP TO WHERE THE DRIVER FENDER WOULD BE HIT IF THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MOVED BACK THOSE FEW FEET THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED ON IMPACT ..
BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT YOU SO NEXT TIME YOU GET CUT OFF FLIP THE FINGER AND SAY THAK YOU HAVE A NICE DAY THEN LAUGH
INSTEAD OF PULLIN A GUN

[Anonymous]

UN MANNED TRAINS IS THE FUTURE BUT ITS STUPID
THERES TO MANY IDIOTS ON THE ROAD TODAY
IVE SEEN PEOPLE PULL IN FRONT OF A 65MPH TRAIN IN GRAND PRARIE TX JUST FOR SOME MONEY IF THEY LIVED THEY HAD PLENTY OF TIME TO GET OUT OF THE WAT OR OUT OF THE CAR THEY WAS DEAD CENTER (DRIVERS SIDE DOOR FACING TRAIN) BUT BACKED UP TO WHERE THE DRIVER FENDER WOULD BE HIT IF THEY WOULD NOT HAVE MOVED BACK THOSE FEW FEET THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN KILLED ON IMPACT ..
BUT SOME PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT YOU SO NEXT TIME YOU GET CUT OFF FLIP THE FINGER AND SAY THAK YOU HAVE A NICE DAY THEN LAUGH
INSTEAD OF PULLIN A GUN

[Anonymous]

ever since csx put remote controls in dewitt yard in syracuse, productivity has about dropped nearly 60%. the got them to get rid of 2 man crews so what do they do they put an extra conductor on the job. they wanted to cut down job time and every crew works ot now. my friend was killed using a remote control and noone ever questioned why. the gag order on the accident was in effect 5 hours after the accident. the railroad was at the widows house( big wigs came up from jacksonville with a blank check) only 12 hours after the accident. the only answers we got so far is it happened because of operator error. how many more people have to die before they find out remotes are not the way to go.

[Anonymous]

ever since csx put remote controls in dewitt yard in syracuse, productivity has about dropped nearly 60%. the got them to get rid of 2 man crews so what do they do they put an extra conductor on the job. they wanted to cut down job time and every crew works ot now. my friend was killed using a remote control and noone ever questioned why. the gag order on the accident was in effect 5 hours after the accident. the railroad was at the widows house( big wigs came up from jacksonville with a blank check) only 12 hours after the accident. the only answers we got so far is it happened because of operator error. how many more people have to die before they find out remotes are not the way to go.