The ALCo diesel locomotive thread

[Convicted One]

Anonymous

Oh, forgot this thread can also be for just general ALCo dicussion.

What can you tell us about Alco automobile manufacture?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

It is true.  SP operated its C415's in pairs pointed in the opposite direction from each other to minimize this problem

[Leo_Ames]

Had a question about Alco's C-415. Is it true what I've read a few times through the years that they had unequel weight distribution and that the truck that's opposite of the engine would slip before the engine end?

If so, why wasn't it ballasted more to equalize the weight carried by each truck?

[Anonymous]

 

 

 

The 244 engines had some problems. The 251 series engines were good. A short line that runs through my home town had rs 11s and I had a number of cab rides. Alco bought  macintosh and semore, and used their prime movers. The alcos could pull a load very easily, and leave EMDs in the exhuast clouds. They have a very distint sound, and loaded well. The number of the engines stood for the year and month they were first started on the test stand.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Although the question of the last Alco built has been answered above, it gets real tricky if you include MLW and the overseas licensees. In fact, DLW in India is an active Alco (and EMD) licensee and is still cranking out 251-powered locomotives.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Although the question of the last Alco built has been answered above, it gets real tricky if you include MLW and the overseas licensees. In fact, DLW in India is an active Alco (and EMD) licensee and is still cranking out 251-powered locomotives.

[wrobertbentley]

I'm looking for a picture of #1216 tank engine of the Boston & Albany...built by ALCO.

[wrobertbentley]

I'm looking for a picture of #1216 tank engine of the Boston & Albany...built by ALCO.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

N&W unloaded the C628's and kept the C630's because of their electrical systems. The C628 used a DC main generator at the limits of its capabilities and the C630 was the first design to use a main alternator.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

N&W unloaded the C628's and kept the C630's because of their electrical systems. The C628 used a DC main generator at the limits of its capabilities and the C630 was the first design to use a main alternator.

[Anonymous]

RE previous posts:
Liscensing fees go to NRE. Awhile before that they went to GE too...

Those CNW units went for pretty long. The last (majority!) were off roster in 1990! But I don't understand, why did N&W sell off their entire fleet of relatively new (7 yrs) 628s? But they (NS) kept 9 C-630s and most of the class-of-1959 T-6s unitil late 1985. That doesn't make sense.

Whoever decided to answer the last Alco built question: wrong numbers. Offhand, they are NSS 1016 AND 1017. These were s/n 6017-1 and -2, released 1/8/69 and 1/10/69. But these are the last units Alco completed. The last under construction were six RSD-35s for WPY (6023-1 : 6). They were shipped unfinished to MLW and subsequently given sales order 4710.

Doyle was smart in using a 12-251. A 16-251 would be too big and costly, 8 cyls or less is too small, and under no circumstances would he install that EMD engine outside the roundhouse. 244s are maintainance heavy- not something a not-for-profit organization needs. Off topic but interesting nonetheless, there is only ONE 16-244 left in existance. It is owned by an industrial firm who has been running tests for it for years. The owner apparently knows it's historical significance and has no plans to scrap it. The engine was formerly a PRR RSD-7's prime mover.


Nicholas Todd

[Anonymous]

RE previous posts:
Liscensing fees go to NRE. Awhile before that they went to GE too...

Those CNW units went for pretty long. The last (majority!) were off roster in 1990! But I don't understand, why did N&W sell off their entire fleet of relatively new (7 yrs) 628s? But they (NS) kept 9 C-630s and most of the class-of-1959 T-6s unitil late 1985. That doesn't make sense.

Whoever decided to answer the last Alco built question: wrong numbers. Offhand, they are NSS 1016 AND 1017. These were s/n 6017-1 and -2, released 1/8/69 and 1/10/69. But these are the last units Alco completed. The last under construction were six RSD-35s for WPY (6023-1 : 6). They were shipped unfinished to MLW and subsequently given sales order 4710.

Doyle was smart in using a 12-251. A 16-251 would be too big and costly, 8 cyls or less is too small, and under no circumstances would he install that EMD engine outside the roundhouse. 244s are maintainance heavy- not something a not-for-profit organization needs. Off topic but interesting nonetheless, there is only ONE 16-244 left in existance. It is owned by an industrial firm who has been running tests for it for years. The owner apparently knows it's historical significance and has no plans to scrap it. The engine was formerly a PRR RSD-7's prime mover.


Nicholas Todd

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by james saunders

RS-11 HOW MANY AND FOR WHAT ROADS?

I LOVE EM AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE

Try this link:
http://www.thedieselshop.us/Alco_RS11.HTML

The RS11 was the 251-powered successor to the RS3 and was competition for the GP9/18.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by james saunders

RS-11 HOW MANY AND FOR WHAT ROADS?

I LOVE EM AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE

Try this link:
http://www.thedieselshop.us/Alco_RS11.HTML

The RS11 was the 251-powered successor to the RS3 and was competition for the GP9/18.

[railroad65]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mersenne6

In looking over the website dedicated to the Doyle McCormack resurrection of the ALCO PA I'm left with the impression that the PA body brought up from Mexico was just that - a body and not much else. On the same site they have pictures, without captions, showing the installation of the prime mover. Do you know if this is a situation of plugging in any old prime mover that will fit or is a case of being able to substitue an ALCO prime mover from a different series of ALCO engines because the prime mover for the PA was also used in other ALCOs?

The web site is www.nkp190.com

[railroad65]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mersenne6

In looking over the website dedicated to the Doyle McCormack resurrection of the ALCO PA I'm left with the impression that the PA body brought up from Mexico was just that - a body and not much else. On the same site they have pictures, without captions, showing the installation of the prime mover. Do you know if this is a situation of plugging in any old prime mover that will fit or is a case of being able to substitue an ALCO prime mover from a different series of ALCO engines because the prime mover for the PA was also used in other ALCOs?

The web site is www.nkp190.com

[james saunders]

RS-11 HOW MANY AND FOR WHAT ROADS?

I LOVE EM AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE

[james saunders]

RS-11 HOW MANY AND FOR WHAT ROADS?

I LOVE EM AND WOULD LIKE TO KNOW MORE

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mmathu

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cris Helt

I've got a couple of questions regarding Alco. First: why were none of C&NW's high-nosed ex N&W C628s preserved? Was C&NW more interested in getting as much money as possible for scrapping or trading in the locomotives?

Is this some sort of trick question?

C&NW, being a business, bought 30 used C628's since they were still serviceable and a whole lot cheaper than buying new SD40-2's. They wound up in ore duty since they were too heavy for service on the Chicago-Twin Cities main line. When the C628's came to the end of their economic life, C&NW sold them for scrap since that helped maximize the return on the initial investment. C&NW was financially weak and could not afford a donation and few museums could afford to pay the scrap price for a 200-ton locomotive.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mmathu

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cris Helt

I've got a couple of questions regarding Alco. First: why were none of C&NW's high-nosed ex N&W C628s preserved? Was C&NW more interested in getting as much money as possible for scrapping or trading in the locomotives?

Is this some sort of trick question?

C&NW, being a business, bought 30 used C628's since they were still serviceable and a whole lot cheaper than buying new SD40-2's. They wound up in ore duty since they were too heavy for service on the Chicago-Twin Cities main line. When the C628's came to the end of their economic life, C&NW sold them for scrap since that helped maximize the return on the initial investment. C&NW was financially weak and could not afford a donation and few museums could afford to pay the scrap price for a 200-ton locomotive.

[mmathu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cris Helt

I've got a couple of questions regarding Alco. First: why were none of C&NW's high-nosed ex N&W C628s preserved? Was C&NW more interested in getting as much money as possible for scrapping or trading in the locomotives?

Is this some sort of trick question?

[mmathu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Cris Helt

I've got a couple of questions regarding Alco. First: why were none of C&NW's high-nosed ex N&W C628s preserved? Was C&NW more interested in getting as much money as possible for scrapping or trading in the locomotives?

Is this some sort of trick question?

[M636C]

mersenne 6

Yes, the PA shells that came up from Mexico were basically just that, empty shells. This was partly because thay had been stripped to provide parts for the other two units which remained in service longer and are both now in museums in Mexico.

They didn't even have truck frames! Fortunately, a pair of trucks from the contemporary and similar Fairbanks Morse Erie-built units were available (although the units themselves are all long gone.

These units were purchased from Santa Fe by Delaware and Hudson, who had Morrison Knudsen (now Motive Power Industries) rebuild them. During the rebuild they lost their 16 cylinder Alco 244 engine which was replaced by a 12 cylinder Alco 251 engine, which was the same power, 2000 HP.

Doyle McCormack is intending to restore his locomotive with an Alco 12 cylinder 251 engine, which is still reasonably common and was used in Alco C420, Montreal M420 and Bombardier HR412 models, as well as in other earlier and many export units. There will be no trouble finding one. Colt Industries would build you a new one if you had the money.

This isn't the original engine, but will be cheaper and more reliable. The engine will sound a bit different.

In fact the original Alco 16-244 was also used in the early model DL-600, Alco's first big hood unit and a competitor of sorts with the FM Trainmaster and the EMD SD24. Later DL-600B models had the more satisfactory 16-251 engine.

Most other parts were standard with other Alco and GE locomotives and would be easily found, GE752 traction motors, control equipment, and so on.

Peter

[M636C]

mersenne 6

Yes, the PA shells that came up from Mexico were basically just that, empty shells. This was partly because thay had been stripped to provide parts for the other two units which remained in service longer and are both now in museums in Mexico.

They didn't even have truck frames! Fortunately, a pair of trucks from the contemporary and similar Fairbanks Morse Erie-built units were available (although the units themselves are all long gone.

These units were purchased from Santa Fe by Delaware and Hudson, who had Morrison Knudsen (now Motive Power Industries) rebuild them. During the rebuild they lost their 16 cylinder Alco 244 engine which was replaced by a 12 cylinder Alco 251 engine, which was the same power, 2000 HP.

Doyle McCormack is intending to restore his locomotive with an Alco 12 cylinder 251 engine, which is still reasonably common and was used in Alco C420, Montreal M420 and Bombardier HR412 models, as well as in other earlier and many export units. There will be no trouble finding one. Colt Industries would build you a new one if you had the money.

This isn't the original engine, but will be cheaper and more reliable. The engine will sound a bit different.

In fact the original Alco 16-244 was also used in the early model DL-600, Alco's first big hood unit and a competitor of sorts with the FM Trainmaster and the EMD SD24. Later DL-600B models had the more satisfactory 16-251 engine.

Most other parts were standard with other Alco and GE locomotives and would be easily found, GE752 traction motors, control equipment, and so on.

Peter

[mersenne6]

In looking over the website dedicated to the Doyle McCormack resurrection of the ALCO PA I'm left with the impression that the PA body brought up from Mexico was just that - a body and not much else. On the same site they have pictures, without captions, showing the installation of the prime mover. Do you know if this is a situation of plugging in any old prime mover that will fit or is a case of being able to substitue an ALCO prime mover from a different series of ALCO engines because the prime mover for the PA was also used in other ALCOs?

[mersenne6]

In looking over the website dedicated to the Doyle McCormack resurrection of the ALCO PA I'm left with the impression that the PA body brought up from Mexico was just that - a body and not much else. On the same site they have pictures, without captions, showing the installation of the prime mover. Do you know if this is a situation of plugging in any old prime mover that will fit or is a case of being able to substitue an ALCO prime mover from a different series of ALCO engines because the prime mover for the PA was also used in other ALCOs?

[Anonymous]

Possibly a FAQ, but are there any dimensions, drawings, plans or anything useful to help in building an HH660? I'd like 1:29 scale.

[Anonymous]

Possibly a FAQ, but are there any dimensions, drawings, plans or anything useful to help in building an HH660? I'd like 1:29 scale.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by kevinstheRRman

This thread survived longer then ALco itself

Someone needs to educate that boy. [:0] [}:)] [;)]

There are 40 year old Alcos still around and pulling. The Century line was/is a very good line of locos. The 251 engine was as good or better than the engines GE or EMD had available at that time, and even achieved better mpg than the competitors. If you think Alco closed because of a product that wasn't up to par with the competitors you are wrong. Show me a 40 year old GE diesel/electric still pulling. Look at the numbers produced and see which has a higher percentage still working.

IF you think Alco was disliked by all railroads, once again you are wrong. I quote from The American Locomotive Company A Centennial Remembrance by Richard T. Steinbrenner, "The CNW tried various EMD and GE C-C units as replacements without satisfaction. When the F-M units were retired in 1975, the C628's were reassigned to the Lake Shore Division to replace them, and they were an instant success, due to their combination of low speed lugging capability, their dynamic brakes, and their general ruggedness."

This is but one example of a dependable loco that a railroad was happy with owning. Also notice that CNW had tried the other two competitors and were unhappy with them.

I think the last post needs repeating.

A little truth for the forum ostriches. [:p]