Question: Should Chinese 2-10-2s be repainted?

[Poppa_Zit]

News item: Chinese steam locomotives arrive in U.S., bound for Iowa

I guess the choice is up to the buyer. To my eye, they'd look strange in those colors pulling freight across eastern Iowa and western Illinois. But if a tourist RR bought one to haul passenger cars, what should they do? Preserve the history, or repaint them to look more ... American?

[samfp1943]

I think Iowa Interstate's diesels are already black with red striping.It has something to do with Iowa's University colors? They Should not need repainting. Just put 'em in service.[8D][8D]
Sam

[rrandb]

Maybe modify that huge number board on the front. Just me but I could live without the elephant ears.

[M636C]

It looks like they have already been repainted - they never looked that clean in normal service! So they probably won't need to be painted for a couple of years. There will be a touch -up needed on the cab where the glazed lookout windows were removed, to bring the width down to reasonable dimensions.

The numbers are painted on the shield for the feed water pump. If you don't mind looking at the pump, you can take it off completely. Equally you could remove the smoke deflectors, but the skyline casing includes an external main steam pipe (as used on the prototype Lima Berkshire A-1, although that wasn't in a casing) so you should probably leave that in place.

The wheels could be painted black, but they look fairly smart red, and show off that it is a steam locomotive.

M636C

[james saunders]

I have been living under a rock!

-James-

[rrandb]

I was thinking of painting the number boards the same as the engine so it blended better. Hang some lighted ones further up. I am looking at a print of a steamer with 2 vertical FWH's that does not look bad. Modified does not translate to make it ugly but I have never seen the FWH on a Chinese 2-10-2. As for the dumbo ears a casing is already an improvement. Ask yourself "What would Lowery" do with an external main steam pipe. Art Deco retro style maybe. Reds okay but in my book black with either silver or white tires will tell if the crew cares enough to keep them clean. It would look more North American. BVR's Mikado is garrish. [*^_^*] [2c]

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by M636C
. Equally you could remove the smoke deflectors, but the skyline casing includes an external main steam pipe (as used on the prototype Lima Berkshire A-1, although that wasn't in a casing) so you should probably leave that in place.

M636C

I dont think removing the smoke deflectors would be a good idea - they are there for a reason. In Britain when the National Railway Museum's former Southern Railway "King Arthur" class 4-6-0 was restored to working order in the 1980's they tried running it without smoke deflectors, as originally built in 1924. But they had too many problems with drifting smoke so the deflectors were soon re-fitted.

As to what colour a loco should be painted, that's entirely up to the owner. Here we've had a number of non-authentic paint jobs over the years, particularly in the late 1960's when people wanted a change from the drab British Rail colours of that era. Nowadays most preserved steam locos carry authentic paint jobs but there are still one or two mavericks, such as the Great Western Hall class loco used in the Harry Potter movies which carries the fictitous Hogwarts Railways red colour - in real life it would have been green or black!

[wallyworld]

Ditch the smoke deflectors, keep the wheels red-keep cosmetic changes to a minimum- because this is a Chinese locomotive and it always will be-it is what it is and to try and disguise this fact is abit of wishful thinking. Its unique in that it is a foreign bit of power and to try and make it a white bread copy of an American profile takes away from this comparitively rare import.

[Anonymous]

Keep the elephant ears. Take all the Chinese lettering off and paint them for Iowa Interstate. That's what I'd do, I've never liked foreign railroads at all. I cringe every time I see that Chinese 2-8-2 in the north east pulling excursions looking like it does......

[rrandb]

I am not advocating disquising or camaflogeing the fact that it is anything other than what is. The chinese were much more concerned with function than form. With a little creativeity and style a more appealling set of smoke deflectors could be installed and still astetically cover the external steam pipes. I know cause I have seen it done.

[MStLfan]

For my money I say paint those wheels black. After i lifetime of looking at those german steamers with their red wheels I have eens enough of that.
On the other hand, if the owners would buy 10 or 12 chinese passenger cars to go with the locomotive then they should not repaint anything.
greeting,
Marc Immeker

[edblysard]

Well,
After seening them in person, and not getting much of a thrill at the overall paint...
I have gone back a few times and changed my mind.
Not a thing you could do to these guys to disguise the fact that they are not American products...lots of details, like the hanging light and outside controls on the engineers side..and removing the elephant ears would leave brackets and other appliances than would have to be relocated...
The paint is a little oxidized, but not in bad shape...not Glossy like we Americans like, but still servicable...

And they are what they are, working locomotives, which, until recently, pulled freight and passenger on a daily basis...so expecting them to look like anythig else wont quite fit...
Sadely, most of todays population here wouldn't know the difference between a Challenge, a Hudson, or the Texas type vs and American....so leave them just like they are.

From what I hear, the owners plan on leasing them out for excursions, movies, and even using them for what they are, general purpose working locomotives.
So they will earn their keep, it seems.

Shoot, just enjoy the fact that they made it here, and have a use and a place to run.

Ed

[Modelcar]

I vote to make subtle cosmetic changes that at least give them the allusion of looking like American steam....Just my [2c]

[M636C]

The original locomotive, HP0001 was built without smoke deflectors, and a number of the older 3500 series units with the old boiler design without a combustion chamber had been demoted to switching service by 1985 and they then ran without smoke deflectors. It would be easy to remove those (although UP Challengers and 800s had them, as did NYC Mohawks and Niagaras).

Extending the skyline casing to the cab, and fitting dual headlights (which many QJ class carried in China) would give an appearance a bit like an SP GS-4 with the streamlining removed. Just paint the smokebox silver or graphite...

In fact, most of the details on these locomotives ARE American. The trailing truck is a General Steels "Delta" type, the feedwater heater is a Worthington SA, the superheater is more or less an Elesco "Type A". The Boxpok wheels are a Russian design, however. In service, the wheels were rarely clean and painting them black wouldn't change much.

Look at the changes made to the Burlington mikado on the Grand Canyon Railway, which turned a fairly plain locomotive into a really good looking one.

There are QJ class locomotives held for museums in China, so these aren't the last survivors, and won't have to look "genuine" or "Chinese" unless people prefer them that way. There is a long USA tradition of rebuilding locomotives and changing their appearance - look at one of the B&M Berkshires rebuilt by Santa Fe!

M636C

[rrandb]

I don't care whay you say Ed. Brackets or not they just look so European with those dumdo ears. They look like that if they started flapping the thing would lift off like a kiddy ride at Mickey's World. In the year 2006 some one could install either a Giesle steam ejector or a more attractive thou utilitarian type of smoke deflectors. That is unless they are going to be pulling the European Express.[:P]

[BR60103]

Just wait 'til Hollywood uses them in a movie! A nice red cab, balloon stack, russian iron boiler and a point cowcatcher to match the General. A Daylight paint scheme. Tuscan red to pull the Congressional for Mrs. Clinton goes to Wahington.
And what's wrong with elephant ears? some of the best steamers wore them.

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Well,

Sadly, most of todays population here wouldn't know the difference between a Challenge, a Hudson, or the Texas type vs and American....so leave them just like they are.


Shoot, just enjoy the fact that they made it here, and have a use and a place to run.

Ed

It's the same here. I work as a volunteer on a preserved line in England (http://www.avonvalleyrailway.org) and 99% of our customers are Joe Public with his wife and kids who just want to see a steam loco. They dont care where it came from as long as its in steam and pulling their train. We have a Polish 0-6-0T which to British eyes is a bit cluttered in appearance but it has a kind of charm of its own. It's design is based on the US Army 0-6-0T's that were supplied during WW2. It carries a somewhat garish bright green with red wheels paint job but I find it grows on.

A QJ 2-10-2 would be far too big for our line but I'm sure the West Somerset Railway or the North Yorkshire Moors could put one to good use.

[csxengineer98]

i think they should be repainted..since they are chinese steamers...i think they should be painted in WALMART red blue and gray..with a BIG yellow smiley face on the tender to go with all the other chines imports that flooding the wamart stores....
csx engineer

[Hugh Jampton]

As an energy saving scheme it should be painted pink.

[Kurn]

Speaking of red wheels,I've heard most foreign locos had them to show up cracks in them.Seems grease and oil would leach into the cracks,and the red wheels would show this at a glance.Anyone ever heard of this?

[SchemerBob]

QUOTE: Originally posted by csxengineer98

i think they should be repainted..since they are chinese steamers...i think they should be painted in WALMART red blue and gray..with a BIG yellow smiley face on the tender to go with all the other chines imports that flooding the wamart stores....
csx engineer

LOL!

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kurn

Speaking of red wheels,I've heard most foreign locos had them to show up cracks in them.Seems grease and oil would leach into the cracks,and the red wheels would show this at a glance.Anyone ever heard of this?

You're close, but no cigar. If that was true, they would have done it here.

Aside from aethetics, railroads painted steam locomotive TIRES white so any cracks would show up.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Poppa_Zit

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kurn

Speaking of red wheels,I've heard most foreign locos had them to show up cracks in them.Seems grease and oil would leach into the cracks,and the red wheels would show this at a glance.Anyone ever heard of this?

You're close, but no cigar. If that was true, they would have done it here.

Aside from aethetics, railroads painted steam locomotive TIRES white so any cracks would show up.

It would only show up cracks in the paint.

[Poppa_Zit]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

QUOTE: Originally posted by Poppa_Zit

QUOTE: Originally posted by Kurn

Speaking of red wheels,I've heard most foreign locos had them to show up cracks in them.Seems grease and oil would leach into the cracks,and the red wheels would show this at a glance.Anyone ever heard of this?

You're close, but no cigar. If that was true, they would have done it here.

Aside from aethetics, railroads painted steam locomotive TIRES white so any cracks would show up.

It would only show up cracks in the paint.

Responses from three old time railroaders:

"Those railroads that did try to maintain "white tires" generally used white-wash on tires, draw-bars (between engine & tender), and sometimes side rods. Although up to the local ICC Inspector (now called the FRA Man), "painted tires, couplers, side/main rods, etc." were against the law. White-wash was however, used extensively to inspect for cracks, and thus could be maintained as "white tires"."

"When the drawbar and the safety iron between the locomotive and tender were inspected, they were painted with white-wa***o look for cracks. Driving tires on a steam locomotive were painted with paint. (Whenever the roundhouse foreman didn't have other work, painting tires was his favorite make-work project.) Engine brakes were not used as heavily on steam locomotives as the are on diesels. The heat generated from heavy usage of engine brakes could cause driving tires to expand and shift on the wheel. The locomotive inspector always gave each tire a light tap, if there was a sharp ring fine, but anything else was trouble."

My grandfather worked in the Cicero IC yard, and that's where I first heard about it. He's the one who told me, and I've read that in several steam railroading books.

So the white on tires helped expose cracks, although it was not a universal practice, not the only way to check the tires.