Commuter rail in Montana?

[zardoz]

This a rather lengthy article, so i just posted the first few paragraphs as a 'tease".

Promoters of rail service say now is the time for open discussion
By ROBERT STRUCKMAN of the Missoulian

A Montana Rail Link engine pulled one car slowly north on the Bitterroot Branch line through Missoula's Slant Street neighborhood on a recent weekday morning, sounding its horn every few moments.

If the stars align for promoters of rail service in the Missoula and Bitterroot valleys, as many as 1,500 commuters may someday travel those tracks in air-conditioned, diesel-powered coaches to stations along the line and a downtown terminal.


“It's a worthy goal,” said commuter rail proponent and local vintner Andy Sponseller.

“What we're looking for is a path forward,” said Alex Taft, a retired urban planner and one of the organizers with Sponseller of a Thursday symposium at the Doubletree Inn entitled, “A Discussion on the Feasibility of Commuter Rail Service in the Missoula and Bitterroot Valleys.”

Talk to promoters of the system, and you'll hear about a rail wave sweeping the nation, made possible by new low-cost DMUs - or diesel motor units - that use existing rail infrastructure. Rail is good for the environment and encourages sensible development. Picture dense pedestrian-friendly, mixed-use developments of housing and small business, they say.

see the entire article at:
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/06/11/news/local/news03.txt

[CShaveRR]

Mebbe if the coaches looked like comfort-cab pickup trucks...

[mudchicken]

......it's a long way between prairie dog colonies, don'tch know![:D][:D][:o)]

[daveklepper]

WOW Commuter trains in Montana!

[rrandb]

What's next for the love of PETE!!! "Captive" shippers in New York City!!!!

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Less people live in Montana than in Cook County, Illinois. This sounds less like a commuter service than a modern version of a branch-line doodlebug.

[Anonymous]

Just another way to "carpool" I guess.

[Anonymous]

They are planning ahead of time, far, far ahead of time - when the population boom is even bigger.

[Murphy Siding]

Maybe building in some *redundancy* for future,as yet unforseen, railroad infrastructure needs? I've heard that's important too![;)]

[cstaats]

Wi***he people in other parts of the country would think that far ahead.

[ValorStorm]

Here's the deal. The Bitterroot Valley is the fastest growing place in Montana. It's chock full of movie stars & washed up 80s rock stars. It's in the Missoula marketing radius, so all of that burgeoning population shops in Missoula. Most of them work there as well. US 93 isn't as bad as I-15 in SLC or I-75 in Detroit during rush hour, but maybe just half that. I know. I've driven all 3. DMUs on MRL's Bitterroot Branch would be packed. The problem is that Ravalli County will be stubborn about helping pay for it.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The previous post hints at two important questions that nobody seems to have asked:
1. Where is the money for all of this going to come from?
2. Who will operate it?

[chad thomas]

Well I know where some unused commuter cars are. (see where is it thread)

[MStLfan]

Wasn't there a commuter operation in Ottawa, Canada with leased Siemens Desiro dmu's? I seem to remember a photo maybe 2 years ago.
Ottawa isn't New York either.
greetings,
Marc Immeker

[randyaj]

As someone who is proud to have been born and raised and spent the first 35 years of his life in Montana, I am about sick of the jokes at our expense. There is not nor will there ever be a greater place to live than Montana.
A Montana forever
Randy Johnson

[arbfbe]

Here is the link to tomorrow's Missoulian newspaper covering the meeting.

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/06/15/web/webnews/wnews47.txt

It will be a long haul, the primary users from the Bitterroot Valley will want the citizens of Missoula to pay most of the cost. Until the $10 billion per month going to Iraq ceases and for some time after that, Federal funds for such projects will be extremely limited.

I agree, Montana is a great place to live. I have been in and out of the state and I always like it here the best. I can live with the jokes and lack of infrastructure just fine. The misconceptions are at times a different matter.

[Anonymous]

MRL needs some state money for ROW way Upgrades and repairs...
Passenger rail in exchange for money for track seems to be the deal here even if it is money loser

[rrandb]

QUOTE: Originally posted by randyaj

As someone who is proud to have been born and raised and spent the first 35 years of his life in Montana, I am about sick of the jokes at our expense. There is not nor will there ever be a greater place to live than Montana.
A Montana forever
Randy Johnson

Who's expense would you like them to be at? [(-D]

[jimrice4449]

I think we're missing a key point here. The promoter of this boondogle..oops, I mean project, is a vintner. Perhaps he's been consuming too much of the product.

[Anonymous]

Will there also be a commuter rail line from Missoula to Kilaispell?

Those actually are the among the fastest growing populations in the nation.

Andrew F.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by falconer

Will there also be a commuter rail line from Missoula to Kilaispell?

Those actually are the among the fastest growing populations in the nation.

Andrew F.

That's Kalispell.

No, there is no rail line between the two. There is no reason for there to be a rail line between the two. There is little if any bulk commodity movement between the two. Which is the only viable reason to discuss new rail services to begin with.

It's fine if someone is willing to pay for the doodlebugs to run over existing underutilized trackage. Preferably those who would feign to use such service. This is not a project worthy of funding from the State of Montana, let alone the nation's taxpayers. If it happens at all then let the folks in Ravalli and Missoula counties pay for it.

And no, they don't need it, since US Highway 93 is a fine thouroughfare. The only glitch for users of US Highway 93 is that Missoula is a bit congested. All they need is a nice north-south freeway through Missoula and all will be fine.

[Anonymous]

Progressives are very high on light rail, commuter rail, and a host of other lifestyle changes that come under the banner of New Urbanism. These transit alternatives don’t have to make economic sense. They are a green fashion statement made by people who often use the word, sustainable.

The city of Minneapolis has just spent $250 million for a study on the feasibility of bringing back the streetcar system. I don’t mean light rail. We are talking streetcars on many of the city streets replacing the buses. City leaders want to get people out of their cars and into transit, so they want people to live next to transit routes. They reason that streetcar tracks appear as a symbol of a permanent route, whereas buses have no such symbol of their permanence. And the sense of permanence is key to comfort people into the commitment of building and living along the route.

Montana or any other under-populated red state is about the last place I would expect rail transit to take hold, but if the area in question is populated by a bunch of Hollywood types, it makes perfect sense. As far as paying for it, they are always mostly paid for by the people who don’t use them. And it’s not just the cost of construction and capital equipment that needs to be paid for. There is also a huge cost of operation.

[MichaelSol]

Good point. Our Greens decided we needed a bus system. Very expensive, little used. The buses produce horribly noxious diesel fumes, far more toxic compounds, per user, than produced by the average car. The system costs more per rider than the average car, uses more fuel per rider than the average car, takes up more space per rider than the average car, produces far more pollution per rider than the average car, and .... it is pronounced a roaring success by the "progressive" community!

[Anonymous]

Whoops, I added an extra "a" to Kalispell.

I was just wondering how extensive this plan was going to be. If some organization were proposing Commuter Rail on the Montana Rail Link, who knows where they would stop with proposals for adding tracks just to get something built.

Andrew B. N. S. F.

[samfp1943]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Well I know where some unused commuter cars are. (see where is it thread)

I thought Union Pacific had scrapped all their cattle and hog cars.[;)][;)]

[ValorStorm]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal
If it happens at all then let the folks in Ravalli and Missoula counties pay for it.

And no, they don't need it, since US Highway 93 is a fine thouroughfare. The only glitch for users of US Highway 93 is that Missoula is a bit congested. All they need is a nice north-south freeway through Missoula and all will be fine.

Ravalli and Missoula counties are even less interested in paying for a nice north-south freeway. But a freeway would definitely solve our problem. Understand that US Highway 93 is only a fine thouroughfare between Missoula and the Ravalli County line. And beyond that, Hwy 93 has exceeded capacity.

Our conundrum is that altho DMUs would be filled, that wouldn't necessarily off-load Hwy 93. A large share of DMU riders would be non-commuters. Trust me on that one.

It's not so much that Missoula is congested, as that Hwy 93 is. And yes, altho it's the only solution, no one here will tolerate a freeway thru the Bitterroot Valley.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ValorStorm

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal
If it happens at all then let the folks in Ravalli and Missoula counties pay for it.

And no, they don't need it, since US Highway 93 is a fine thouroughfare. The only glitch for users of US Highway 93 is that Missoula is a bit congested. All they need is a nice north-south freeway through Missoula and all will be fine.

Ravalli and Missoula counties are even less interested in paying for a nice north-south freeway. But a freeway would definitely solve our problem. Understand that US Highway 93 is only a fine thouroughfare between Missoula and the Ravalli County line. And beyond that, Hwy 93 has exceeded capacity.

Our conundrum is that altho DMUs would be filled, that wouldn't necessarily off-load Hwy 93. A large share of DMU riders would be non-commuters. Trust me on that one.

It's not so much that Missoula is congested, as that Hwy 93 is. And yes, altho it's the only solution, no one here will tolerate a freeway thru the Bitterroot Valley.

Well, US 93/12 is divided four lanes from Missoula to Lolo (where US 12 diverts over the mountains into Idaho). All you guys need is a bypass or a throughpass to fluidize traffic from Missoula's southern burgs to the I-90 interchange. Isn't there still room west of Missoula for such a project?

[Anonymous]

250 million....??? Sure thats not a typo? You could build about 40 miles of light rail for that amount of money..

[Anonymous]

Yes I meant to say $250,000. Sorry about that.

[Anonymous]

Hasn't Montana had its fill of ripoffs after the electric utility disaster?