I just carry a little pump that plugs into the cigarette lighter.
Conversations are fascinating. We started out talking about tank trains.
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"A stranger's just a friend you ain't met yet." --- Dave Gardner
Overmod BaltACD Deggesty And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires. Inasmuch as most retail gasoline outlets no longer have mechanical shops as a part of the overall operation, they have no need for a air system to support the mechanics air tools, which was the supply in the days of 'free air'. Nowadays the air supply is a 'on demand' pump that is activated by the money that is required to turn the pump on. Just do what I do: go to one of the tire chain stores, or a 'garage' like Firestone or Midas car care, where they will have a handy air hose reel at the front of one of the bays. I have never yet been refused the use of this hose and chuck to put air in even large, relatively flat tires free. And the setup is much preferable to the old service-station air facilities, many of which were decidedly run down with dubious compressed-air quality.
BaltACD Deggesty And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires. Inasmuch as most retail gasoline outlets no longer have mechanical shops as a part of the overall operation, they have no need for a air system to support the mechanics air tools, which was the supply in the days of 'free air'. Nowadays the air supply is a 'on demand' pump that is activated by the money that is required to turn the pump on.
Deggesty And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires.
Inasmuch as most retail gasoline outlets no longer have mechanical shops as a part of the overall operation, they have no need for a air system to support the mechanics air tools, which was the supply in the days of 'free air'. Nowadays the air supply is a 'on demand' pump that is activated by the money that is required to turn the pump on.
Just do what I do: go to one of the tire chain stores, or a 'garage' like Firestone or Midas car care, where they will have a handy air hose reel at the front of one of the bays. I have never yet been refused the use of this hose and chuck to put air in even large, relatively flat tires free. And the setup is much preferable to the old service-station air facilities, many of which were decidedly run down with dubious compressed-air quality.
Since I use air tools at home - I have my own air compressor, I wish it was bigger, but I can make it do what I need it to do.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
DeggestyAnd, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires. SInce I do not drive anymore, this does not affect me particularly. I doubt that many people have cooled off by blowing air in their faces as I saw Jeff (of "Mutt and Jeff") doing 65-75 years ago.
I doubt that many people have cooled off by blowing air in their faces as I saw Jeff (of "Mutt and Jeff") doing 65-75 years ago.
In as much as most retail gasolene outlets no longer have mechanical shops as a part of the overall operation, they have no need for a air system to support the mechanics air tools, which was the supply in the days of 'free air'. Nowadays the air supply is a 'on demand' pump that is activated by the money that is required to turn the pump on.
Paul of Covington The nitrogen thing apparently comes and goes. Back in the late 1960's (more or less), I remember a big advertising push offering nitrogen for tires. I figure they couldn't compete with free air. On Balt's point, I've always thought it important to keep out moisture, especially when watching them wet the tire bead to make mounting easier.
On Balt's point, I've always thought it important to keep out moisture, especially when watching them wet the tire bead to make mounting easier.
To do Nitrogen 'properly' the tire, once mounted in 'atmosphere' conditions need to have a vacuum pump attached to evacuate the 'air' that is in the mounted tire. Once the 'air' has been evacuated the nitrogen can then be added.
I suspect what retail tire outlets are doing is just adding nitrogen to tires that have been mounted with 'atmosphere' conditions and the water vapor from the atmosphere is still in the tire. From my view point Nitrogen in consumer tire applications is just a gimmick to get people to spend, spend, spend. Junk Science sells.
The solution used to mount/dismount beads over the wheel rim is a commercial product at tire shops, however, for home tire mount/dismounts a solution of water and dishwashing liquid performs the trick.
And, air is not always free anymore. I noticed, in the last week or two, air dispensers which require a few coins before your can fill your tires. SInce I do not drive anymore, this does not affect me particularly.
Johnny
The nitrogen thing apparently comes and goes. Back in the late 1960's (more or less), I remember a big advertising push offering nitrogen for tires. I figure they couldn't compete with free air.
CSSHEGEWISCHQuite a few years ago, there was a tire retailer (Acorn Tire, I believe) in the Chicago area that advertised that the new tires you bought from them were filled with nitrogen. It sounded like a gimmick to me.
Professional level racing normally use Nitrogen to inflate their tires. The use of Nitrogen allows for more precise measurement of the use parameters of the tires and their response to heat during use. Air contains water vapor - vapor that can become STEAM when heated beyond 212 degrees and add additional pressure to the desired inflation pressure. In racing, tires and their inflation pressure, form a portion of the total 'spring rate' of the entire suspension system which also includes the springs, shock dampers as well as resistance in all the movable suspension links. While it is realatively difficult to adjust the 'hardware' of the suspension, it is easy to adjust tire pressure when it is necessary to 'tune' the suspension to the surface upon which the race is being contested.
CSSHEGEWISCH Quite a few years ago, there was a tire retailer (Acorn Tire, I believe) in the Chicago area that advertised that the new tires you bought from them were filled with nitrogen. It sounded like a gimmick to me.
Quite a few years ago, there was a tire retailer (Acorn Tire, I believe) in the Chicago area that advertised that the new tires you bought from them were filled with nitrogen. It sounded like a gimmick to me.
It may be largely a marketing thing, but there are good reasons to exclude oxygen under pressure from the inside of a tire and to eliminate the water that is almost always carried over from garage air compressor setups.
The phone companies still pump nitrogen into their older copper lines to keep them dry ..
The nitrogen was injected as opposed to the cars been pressurized. The crude was shipped at 140 degrees plus and relied on the expansion of the nitrogen through the cars to remove the oil. How much nitrogen? Wish I could answer that question, but it was over 30 years ago. I can tell you that the nitrogen was vented to atmosphere as the train was loaded in Bakersfield.
tree68 BaltACD How many cu. ft. of Nitrogen were required per train? And could you recover any of it, or was it just vented to the atmosphere?
BaltACD How many cu. ft. of Nitrogen were required per train?
And could you recover any of it, or was it just vented to the atmosphere?
Probably left in the empty consist to reduce issues with vapors, then vented (perhaps through vapor separation for EPA reasons) incidentally when consist was refilled. Around 78% of the atmosphere is nitrogen and it used to be relatively cheap to separate as a ‘by-product’ of LOX for steelmaking.
I suspect nowadays you would separate purge nitrogen ‘on site’ with molecular sieves as done in the packaging industry. What was used then? Pressure bottles or cryo?
BaltACDHow many cu. ft. of Nitrogen were required per train?
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
JBlaineI commissioned the facility and unloaded the first TankTrain at the Carson refinery back in 1983. The train consisted of six sets of 12 cars. Each 12 car set was pressurized with nitrogen to push the crude oil out. All six sets were unloaded simultaneously. It took four hours to unload a train. With the proper "persuasion", it was possible to unload a full train in a little over 90 minutes.
How many cu. ft. of Nitrogen were required per train?
I commissioned the facility and unloaded the first TankTrain at the Carson refinery back in 1983. The train consisted of six sets of 12 cars. Each 12 car set was pressurized with nitrogen to push the crude oil out. All six sets were unloaded simultaneously. It took four hours to unload a train. With the proper "persuasion", it was possible to unload a full train in a little over 90 minutes.
The CP/VTRS tank train operation from Albany to Burlington VT is still around as far as I know. It replaced the bulk oil barges that came up the Champlain Canal in the mid-1980s. Gasoline, Diesel and #2 heating oil are all carried.
Andrew Falconer The CN GATX TankTrain tank car trains, shown in the 2003 and 2006 photos on the railpictures site, have no buffer cars between the tanks and the locomotives.
The CN GATX TankTrain tank car trains, shown in the 2003 and 2006 photos on the railpictures site, have no buffer cars between the tanks and the locomotives.
Canadian regulations are different than US regulations.
Watch my videos on-line at https://www.youtube.com/user/AndrewNeilFalconer
The September 10th, 2014 photo on the CN in Quebec shows the GATX TankTrain and a new tank train of oil product from North Dakota moved first by the BNSF.
There is a BNSF buffer service only covered hopper.
The next photo shows the new ARI or Greenbrier built oil tank cars.
When the link is clicked upon, they load up that webpage in this window tab, instead of in another window or even a second tab.
Back in 2010 and 2011 I saw several not-very-long strings of the TankTrain in CP's ex-D&H Kenwood Yard, just south of Albany, NY.
There are several photos (none are mine) on the Railpictures.net website of the TankTrain in recent operations - see, for example:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=509198&nseq=0 (Quebec, Sept. 10, 2014)
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=504799&nseq=1 (Quebec, Nov. 02, 2014)
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=53219&nseq=21 (Oct. 2003 - note that the caption says "The trains consit of 4 block of 17 cars, for a total of 68 cars. Six trains runs daily." The comment - "it can be seen 6 times a day- too dark ;-)" - also seems to confirm the 6 trains daily - ?!?).
And one of my favorites from Feb. 2006:
http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=133704&nseq=16
- Paul North.
Each car has a butterfly valve that is shut in transit. They are located at each end of the interconnecting 10" hoses. On some of the earlier cars the hoses were only 6" in diameter but they still had the butterfly valves to reduce the spillage should the cars derail and the hoses ripped off.
Robert
The cars above are DOT 111A100W1 Class cars. The have a GATX 98 Underframe so the oldest the could be would be late 70's or early 80"s. They quit building the Type 98 underframe in about 1980 or 81. The remaining strings for the most part are in 13 car strings. I don't think there has ever been a string 70 cars long. Possibly what was saw was a train with 4 or 5 of the 13 car strings coupled together.
"...That many carloads is an awful lot of product to pump in and out of just a single hose connection, which at best would take too long and result in slow turn-around and cycle times and unacceptable costs, etc. The other extreme is each car having its own loading/ unloading hose, which is how most are done. Even with that, the 5 or 6-man crew that does the 80 to 96 cars at the terminal I'm most familiar with has several hours of 'doing nothing' time in the middle of the day, after all the cars are hooked up and draining, but before enough cars are emptied to start disconnecting and closing them up towards the end of the day. ...
A sensible compromise between those extremes is to break up the train into several cuts of cars, each with its own hose connection. The original loading site at Albany was set-up 4 tracks, each with about 20 cars per cut, which should provide a reasonable loading / unloading rate and switching time and costs..."
Paul: To sort of expand on your point. I was reading in an articles on the Operation of the "GATX Tank Train' in a real workd setting.
The story indicated that when unloading the cars wer broken down into groups of 12 interconnected cars, for the unload. The product was at a higher temperature than ambient while transported, ( Loaded at a high temp at origin(?). The unload time was boosted by covering the material pressurized in the cars with an inert gas ( Nitrogen(?). That pressure boost coupled with the flow of the 'warmed' product enabled a quicker unload times at Destination.
Sorry, I cannot remember the source for the above comment
[EDIT to add content]
http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/t/201762.aspx?PageIndex=2
link to: Keystone XL Pipeline Thread.
Then I posted the link to this Thread ( from a posting in 2006) on the Keystone XL Pipeline Thread ( current to this month). The information is surely current and valid then as now.
Does anyone have any Current Information on the implementation of the GATX Tank Train(s) in today's transportation market? IMHO, it would be some interesting reading, particularly in the context of what is happening with today's needs.
Andrew, what a great layout you have there. The trains seem real at first glance.
Thank you for sharing the video with us.
Cannonball
Y6bs evergreen in my mind
Each tank car does have a valve on the bottom to empty them using both gravity and suction.
Andrew Falconer
Looking at the photos, it seems possible to load a block of cars using a single connection. However, I don't see how it is possible to unload a block of cars using a single connection.
How would the fluid flow from one car to another during unloading? Is there an internal piping arrangement that creates a siphon to draw fluid from one car to another?
Thanks.
Anthony V.
To answer your question, GATX Tankers are just mixed in with the manifests. I always see them mixed in with manifests. Every once in a while, I'll see GATX Molten Sulfur trains go through Mundelein on CN. Most of the Molten Sulfur, though is mixed in with manifests.
Gus
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