Bad train pictures

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Nora, the card holder is just that, what you saw stenciled above it was "defect card"

That sounds right, thanks for the info. The car was gone when I went back so I'd been racking my brains trying to remember what it said.

--Nora

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Nora, the card holder is just that, what you saw stenciled above it was "defect card"

That sounds right, thanks for the info. The car was gone when I went back so I'd been racking my brains trying to remember what it said.

--Nora

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Carefull there Mookie. If they can make the stars green, they can also make them furballs or hairballs............

cof, cof, hack, gag.....oops knocked my tiara off!

La Mook!

(must have choked on a CHICKEN bone....

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

Carefull there Mookie. If they can make the stars green, they can also make them furballs or hairballs............

cof, cof, hack, gag.....oops knocked my tiara off!

La Mook!

(must have choked on a CHICKEN bone....

[mudchicken]

Carefull there Mookie. If they can make the stars green, they can also make them furballs or hairballs............

[mudchicken]

Carefull there Mookie. If they can make the stars green, they can also make them furballs or hairballs............

[edblysard]

Hi Jim,
Heres a simplefied version.
What we call AAR billing.
An example...

UP brings the PTRA a train, in that train are ten cars with minor defects, missing grab irons and sturips, maby one or two that had been cornered slightly.

The premise is that they, UP, should have found and repaired these defects.
Instead they passed them on to us.
We operate under the assumption that they, UP, caused the defects.

We repair the cars, and send the bill, parts, labor, ect to the AAR, who will bill UP.

In fact, it is a system of credits and debits.

The idea is that every railroad should repair defects before interchanging the cars.

In the case of a car being damaged by any carrier, say a wreck, or something like our tankcar/plastic filled hopper party we had last month, the carrier who damaged the car pays for all repairs or replacement, either outright or through their insurance.

Lets say I screw up later today, and corner a hopper, knocking off the grab irons and stirup step.

If we send the car on the, say BN, they will bad order it, and repair the damage.

But, they will also bill us through the AAR at a fixed rate, the AAR has established a fixed cost to repair certain types of damage or normal repair, brakes shoes are billed at this amount, painting at this amount, replacing a hatch or a crossover platform at this fixed amount.

The AAR billing cost dosnt necessarly reflect the cost of the repairs, you buy brake shoes by the thousands at discount, grab irons and stirups, things of that nature are bought in bulk, so the amount you bill through the AAR is almost always higher than your cost of repairing the car.

So, with the hopper I cornered, its cheaper for the PTRA to repair the car we damaged, say at a cost of $500.00 parts and labor, than to past it on to the BNSF, who would also repair it, but bill the PTRA through the AAR at $1500.00.

It makes more economic sense to catch and repair the damaged/defective cars while they are on your property, weither you caused the damage or not, than to allow them to be forwarded to another carrier.
If you do send it on, and the next carrier catches the defect, you get billed for the repair, but at a higher cost than if you fixed it in the first place, regardless if you damaged the car or not.

Car men/inspectors have a book, the field manual of the AAR interchange rules to identify what is or isnt a defect, and it contains a series of codes, the "why made" code, which is what the defect is and how it was made and the "job code" which is the code for the cost and labor to repair.

This last code is what you send to the AAR, who bills the sending carrier at a fixed rate, depending on the code/type of defect.

Why made codes look something like this.
Why made
01= worn out
02= broken
03= missing
04= defective
you get the point.

The job code looks like this
Job Code
7000 Outlet Gate repairs
7002 Cap assembly(includes cap gasket)
7004 End adaptor (includes eyebolts, j bolts)

So if we find a car with a worn out cap assembly, the AAR billing would include the why made code, 02, and the jobe code, 7002.

The AAR bills the UP who brought us the damaged car.

Of course, thats a rather simplified version, in reality there would be a lot more job codes, painting, welding the bolts on, straighting the hinges, stuff like that, each with its own why made and job code.

If the job code is a scheduled maintainance item, say replacing bearings or lubing the car parts on schedule, or testing a part of the car, then the car owner is billed.
In your line of work, I would assume scheduled maintainance items and service is a must, and it works about the same way.

If, on the other hand, say a scheduled pressure test on a tank car was months out of date, we would perform the test, but bill the sending railroad at the AAR cost of the test.
They, in turn, would bill the owner, but at the actual cost of the test, not the higher AAR cost, and have to eat the difference in cost.

In the end, the entire system is designed around the concept that its cheaper to fix them than send them on, and because railroads dont like spending money, they will take the cheaper route and repair any defect found, thus ensuring that the cars they send out are safe for interchange.

Which would you rather pay, the $500.00 bucks for your shop guys to weld on the grab irons I knocked off, or pay BNSF $1500.00 bucks to do the same repair?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi Jim,
Heres a simplefied version.
What we call AAR billing.
An example...

UP brings the PTRA a train, in that train are ten cars with minor defects, missing grab irons and sturips, maby one or two that had been cornered slightly.

The premise is that they, UP, should have found and repaired these defects.
Instead they passed them on to us.
We operate under the assumption that they, UP, caused the defects.

We repair the cars, and send the bill, parts, labor, ect to the AAR, who will bill UP.

In fact, it is a system of credits and debits.

The idea is that every railroad should repair defects before interchanging the cars.

In the case of a car being damaged by any carrier, say a wreck, or something like our tankcar/plastic filled hopper party we had last month, the carrier who damaged the car pays for all repairs or replacement, either outright or through their insurance.

Lets say I screw up later today, and corner a hopper, knocking off the grab irons and stirup step.

If we send the car on the, say BN, they will bad order it, and repair the damage.

But, they will also bill us through the AAR at a fixed rate, the AAR has established a fixed cost to repair certain types of damage or normal repair, brakes shoes are billed at this amount, painting at this amount, replacing a hatch or a crossover platform at this fixed amount.

The AAR billing cost dosnt necessarly reflect the cost of the repairs, you buy brake shoes by the thousands at discount, grab irons and stirups, things of that nature are bought in bulk, so the amount you bill through the AAR is almost always higher than your cost of repairing the car.

So, with the hopper I cornered, its cheaper for the PTRA to repair the car we damaged, say at a cost of $500.00 parts and labor, than to past it on to the BNSF, who would also repair it, but bill the PTRA through the AAR at $1500.00.

It makes more economic sense to catch and repair the damaged/defective cars while they are on your property, weither you caused the damage or not, than to allow them to be forwarded to another carrier.
If you do send it on, and the next carrier catches the defect, you get billed for the repair, but at a higher cost than if you fixed it in the first place, regardless if you damaged the car or not.

Car men/inspectors have a book, the field manual of the AAR interchange rules to identify what is or isnt a defect, and it contains a series of codes, the "why made" code, which is what the defect is and how it was made and the "job code" which is the code for the cost and labor to repair.

This last code is what you send to the AAR, who bills the sending carrier at a fixed rate, depending on the code/type of defect.

Why made codes look something like this.
Why made
01= worn out
02= broken
03= missing
04= defective
you get the point.

The job code looks like this
Job Code
7000 Outlet Gate repairs
7002 Cap assembly(includes cap gasket)
7004 End adaptor (includes eyebolts, j bolts)

So if we find a car with a worn out cap assembly, the AAR billing would include the why made code, 02, and the jobe code, 7002.

The AAR bills the UP who brought us the damaged car.

Of course, thats a rather simplified version, in reality there would be a lot more job codes, painting, welding the bolts on, straighting the hinges, stuff like that, each with its own why made and job code.

If the job code is a scheduled maintainance item, say replacing bearings or lubing the car parts on schedule, or testing a part of the car, then the car owner is billed.
In your line of work, I would assume scheduled maintainance items and service is a must, and it works about the same way.

If, on the other hand, say a scheduled pressure test on a tank car was months out of date, we would perform the test, but bill the sending railroad at the AAR cost of the test.
They, in turn, would bill the owner, but at the actual cost of the test, not the higher AAR cost, and have to eat the difference in cost.

In the end, the entire system is designed around the concept that its cheaper to fix them than send them on, and because railroads dont like spending money, they will take the cheaper route and repair any defect found, thus ensuring that the cars they send out are safe for interchange.

Which would you rather pay, the $500.00 bucks for your shop guys to weld on the grab irons I knocked off, or pay BNSF $1500.00 bucks to do the same repair?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

I think it means Jim is # 1. [:D] But that is just MY opinion. [:p]

[8] HISS

Mook

[Mookie]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

I think it means Jim is # 1. [:D] But that is just MY opinion. [:p]

[8] HISS

Mook

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

I think it means Jim is # 1. [:D] But that is just MY opinion. [:p]

Good one, Jim.[:)] i should also mention that the sign is double-sided

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

I think it means Jim is # 1. [:D] But that is just MY opinion. [:p]

Good one, Jim.[:)] i should also mention that the sign is double-sided

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Defect cards are filled out by car men/car inspectors while they check out a inbound train, and any cars with a defect, from broken safety appliances to defective wheels will get a card, noting what defect the inspector found, and the crew who switches the cars out will cut this car out to a rip track.
Rip means Repair In Place.
Cars marked to a rip track have minor repairs needed, brake shoes, bent grab irons, anything that can be repaired without major disassembly of the car.
Heavy wreck damage cars are held out and after the car owner is contacted, they may be repaired on property, or returned to the owner for disposition.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

What about the costs involved in repairing another "roads" eqiupment? Is there a bill send and paid or credit issued for part/supplies/labor etc?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by edblysard

Defect cards are filled out by car men/car inspectors while they check out a inbound train, and any cars with a defect, from broken safety appliances to defective wheels will get a card, noting what defect the inspector found, and the crew who switches the cars out will cut this car out to a rip track.
Rip means Repair In Place.
Cars marked to a rip track have minor repairs needed, brake shoes, bent grab irons, anything that can be repaired without major disassembly of the car.
Heavy wreck damage cars are held out and after the car owner is contacted, they may be repaired on property, or returned to the owner for disposition.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

What about the costs involved in repairing another "roads" eqiupment? Is there a bill send and paid or credit issued for part/supplies/labor etc?

[edblysard]

Nora, the card holder is just that, what you saw stenciled above it was "defect card"
On some tank cars, istead of a square holder, it is a steel tube with a small cap on one end.
On tanks, it is hard to see because it is mounted in odd places on the frame or sill, but it is always around eye level.
Defect cards are filled out by car men/car inspectors while they check out a inbound train, and any cars with a defect, from broken safety appliances to defective wheels will get a card, noting what defect the inspector found, and the crew who switches the cars out will cut this car out to a rip track.
Rip means Repair In Place.
Cars marked to a rip track have minor repairs needed, brake shoes, bent grab irons, anything that can be repaired without major disassembly of the car.
Heavy wreck damage cars are held out and after the car owner is contacted, they may be repaired on property, or returned to the owner for disposition.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Nora, the card holder is just that, what you saw stenciled above it was "defect card"
On some tank cars, istead of a square holder, it is a steel tube with a small cap on one end.
On tanks, it is hard to see because it is mounted in odd places on the frame or sill, but it is always around eye level.
Defect cards are filled out by car men/car inspectors while they check out a inbound train, and any cars with a defect, from broken safety appliances to defective wheels will get a card, noting what defect the inspector found, and the crew who switches the cars out will cut this car out to a rip track.
Rip means Repair In Place.
Cars marked to a rip track have minor repairs needed, brake shoes, bent grab irons, anything that can be repaired without major disassembly of the car.
Heavy wreck damage cars are held out and after the car owner is contacted, they may be repaired on property, or returned to the owner for disposition.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

I think it means Jim is # 1. [:D] But that is just MY opinion. [:p]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Alaskaman

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

I think it means Jim is # 1. [:D] But that is just MY opinion. [:p]

[Anonymous]

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

[Anonymous]

There is a sign on tracks near my house and it says this:
J
1

I was thinking it meant "junction"
Any ideas[?]

[mudchicken]

The "card holder" is where one places the bad order card (usually orange, some white, about the came size as the old computer cards) it goes in the holder en route to its home terminal along with another card stapled to a 16" square board (at least on boxcars and some gons).

[mudchicken]

The "card holder" is where one places the bad order card (usually orange, some white, about the came size as the old computer cards) it goes in the holder en route to its home terminal along with another card stapled to a 16" square board (at least on boxcars and some gons).

[Mookie]

Nora - I know the yellow thingie has a square box and next to it is an open thingie where you would put the FRED. We girls understand all this terminology. I have never heard how they are attached to the engine itself, but they are fairly yellow and when they have been repainted recently, they are hard to miss.

I am so glad you saw the card holder. I think sometimes the forum people think I am imagining things. And you have a distinct advantage over me - you can see your things fairly close and still. I only get to see things as they travel past me. Gotta get a better vantage point! Maybe if I dress like a snake, a muddy chicken or a weasel.......

Jen

[Mookie]

Nora - I know the yellow thingie has a square box and next to it is an open thingie where you would put the FRED. We girls understand all this terminology. I have never heard how they are attached to the engine itself, but they are fairly yellow and when they have been repainted recently, they are hard to miss.

I am so glad you saw the card holder. I think sometimes the forum people think I am imagining things. And you have a distinct advantage over me - you can see your things fairly close and still. I only get to see things as they travel past me. Gotta get a better vantage point! Maybe if I dress like a snake, a muddy chicken or a weasel.......

Jen

[edblysard]

Yes, you did!
Kinda fun, isnt it?
Seems Jenny is having fun too!
You girls go!
Ed

[edblysard]

Yes, you did!
Kinda fun, isnt it?
Seems Jenny is having fun too!
You girls go!
Ed

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

ok - some follow-up. I went out this weekend - Had nothing better to do for a couple of hours, so went train watching.

Saw two yellow thingies. Saw the small scanners on the side of coal cars. They were at one end of the car - last panel (or first if going out of town.) BUT - on the other end of the side of the car, the very last or first panel also had a square "slot" - from my vantage point it looked like a small card holder. It was open faced, like you would slip a large calling card behind the face plate. Most were empty but some had something in them. Go look at a boxcar and go to the opposite end of the scanner and tell me what those are.

And if you are still paying attention - the yellow thingies are FRED holders. They ride on the side of the engines and wait for FRED to visit.

How am I doing guys? Do I have this railroad terminology down or what!!!

Mookie

I think I saw a yellow thingie yesterday. Well, I definitely saw a yellow thingie, but not sure if it was the same yellow thingie you are talking about. It was kind of arrow shaped and pointing down & was bolted to the bottom edge of the engine (above the wheels). Is this the same thing?

And weirdly enough, I also noticed the "card holder" things for the first time yesterday, too! I think it's a place to put a card saying what's wrong with the car if it's broken. Something I saw stenciled over the holder led me to believe this, but I can't remember exactly what it said. If the cars are still sitting there today, and it's dry enough to go for our walk I will try to take note of what it says. (I answered a question! I answered a question! (I think))

--Nora

[Nora]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

ok - some follow-up. I went out this weekend - Had nothing better to do for a couple of hours, so went train watching.

Saw two yellow thingies. Saw the small scanners on the side of coal cars. They were at one end of the car - last panel (or first if going out of town.) BUT - on the other end of the side of the car, the very last or first panel also had a square "slot" - from my vantage point it looked like a small card holder. It was open faced, like you would slip a large calling card behind the face plate. Most were empty but some had something in them. Go look at a boxcar and go to the opposite end of the scanner and tell me what those are.

And if you are still paying attention - the yellow thingies are FRED holders. They ride on the side of the engines and wait for FRED to visit.

How am I doing guys? Do I have this railroad terminology down or what!!!

Mookie

I think I saw a yellow thingie yesterday. Well, I definitely saw a yellow thingie, but not sure if it was the same yellow thingie you are talking about. It was kind of arrow shaped and pointing down & was bolted to the bottom edge of the engine (above the wheels). Is this the same thing?

And weirdly enough, I also noticed the "card holder" things for the first time yesterday, too! I think it's a place to put a card saying what's wrong with the car if it's broken. Something I saw stenciled over the holder led me to believe this, but I can't remember exactly what it said. If the cars are still sitting there today, and it's dry enough to go for our walk I will try to take note of what it says. (I answered a question! I answered a question! (I think))

--Nora

[Mookie]

ok - some follow-up. I went out this weekend - Had nothing better to do for a couple of hours, so went train watching.

Saw two yellow thingies. Saw the small scanners on the side of coal cars. They were at one end of the car - last panel (or first if going out of town.) BUT - on the other end of the side of the car, the very last or first panel also had a square "slot" - from my vantage point it looked like a small card holder. It was open faced, like you would slip a large calling card behind the face plate. Most were empty but some had something in them. Go look at a boxcar and go to the opposite end of the scanner and tell me what those are.

And if you are still paying attention - the yellow thingies are FRED holders. They ride on the side of the engines and wait for FRED to visit.

How am I doing guys? Do I have this railroad terminology down or what!!!

Mookie

[Mookie]

ok - some follow-up. I went out this weekend - Had nothing better to do for a couple of hours, so went train watching.

Saw two yellow thingies. Saw the small scanners on the side of coal cars. They were at one end of the car - last panel (or first if going out of town.) BUT - on the other end of the side of the car, the very last or first panel also had a square "slot" - from my vantage point it looked like a small card holder. It was open faced, like you would slip a large calling card behind the face plate. Most were empty but some had something in them. Go look at a boxcar and go to the opposite end of the scanner and tell me what those are.

And if you are still paying attention - the yellow thingies are FRED holders. They ride on the side of the engines and wait for FRED to visit.

How am I doing guys? Do I have this railroad terminology down or what!!!

Mookie