Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.
Brian (IA) http://blhanel.rrpicturearchives.net.
Victrola1Olie's Ham H' Egger Olies was the greatest place to soak up excess spirits at 3:00 in the morning within 70 miles of Marion. It sat just accross the drive way from the huge early 20th century Milwaukee depot. As a student at Cornell College in nearby Mt. Vernon with no such attraction, many an early morning ended with a road trip to Marion for breakfast. Olies was where the Milwaukee crews ate. Weekend crowds may have made them seem trivial, but though the week they were the heart and soul of Olies. The third shift cook and waitresses knew the railroaders on a first name basis. A switch engine in the depot siding was good indicator the crew was in Olies. Sometimes, to go orders were readied for through freights which slowed to pick up their order on the fly from a yardman. Being a member of Cornell's class of 1976, I saw the swan song of the Milwaukee in Marion. While massive numbers of Union Pacific freights now roar past Cornell's football field in Mt. Vernon, the Milwaukee Road in Linn County is mostly old maps and memories. Even Olies is gone. It was part of the block ripped out along with the old Milwaukee depot to make a cookie cutter design strip mall. I have yet to find a place that can top the cheese omlets the week night cook used to make Olies. No fake plants and neon can match the honest atmosphere of cold men coming in from the bite of a -20 night in mid January to refill their thermoses with hot coffee for the next bunch of cars to sort.
Talk about pouring salt in an old wound.....Vividly remember as a very young boy when the UP-MILW "Cities" trains would stop in Marion and, of course, all the mainline freight trains with UP power on them filled out with autoracks and intermodal. I was lucky enough to actually interview with the last MILW Trainmaster in Marion back in May, 1978 (Merle VanSickle). Helluva nice guy and even though he couldn't offer me a job, he really took a liking to me and appreciated my enthusiasm and love for the Milwaukee Road. An absolute travesty that a once-79 mph passenger mainline was allowed to deteriorate the way it did and later get abandoned.
Marion was probably even more of an important point for the Milwaukee Road until the early years of the 20th Century. Until then, the Milwaukee's route from Chicago to Kansas City ran southwest from Marion to Ottumwa.
That all changed with rights to Muscatine and a new route being laid from there to hook into the existing route north of Ottumwa.
Los Angeles Rams Guy An absolute travesty that a once-79 mph passenger mainline was allowed to deteriorate the way it did and later get abandoned.
The only thing approaching a "travesty" was when the Milwaukee poured in millions of dollars to upgrade this line with CTC, more sidings, and addition main tracks to be able to handle the UP "Cities" passenger trains between Council Bluffs and Chicago with the hope that the majority of freight traffic in this lane would follow. It didn't. The C&NW route with the much greater online traffic and the C&NW's bypass between Missouri Valley and Fremont around the Omaha/Council Bluffs terminal never put into doubt which would be the primary freight route. The money used to upgrade the line and subsequent loses handling these "new" passenger trains could certainly have been put to better use just about anywhere else on a railroad that always was short of money.
Mark Meyer
VerMontanan Los Angeles Rams Guy An absolute travesty that a once-79 mph passenger mainline was allowed to deteriorate the way it did and later get abandoned. The only thing approaching a "travesty" was when the Milwaukee poured in millions of dollars to upgrade this line with CTC, more sidings, and addition main tracks to be able to handle the UP "Cities" passenger trains between Council Bluffs and Chicago with the hope that the majority of freight traffic in this lane would follow. It didn't. The C&NW route with the much greater online traffic and the C&NW's bypass between Missouri Valley and Fremont around the Omaha/Council Bluffs terminal never put into doubt which would be the primary freight route. The money used to upgrade the line and subsequent loses handling these "new" passenger trains could certainly have been put to better use just about anywhere else on a railroad that always was short of money.
The line across Iowa had been straightened and double tracked in 1912/13 era. (Also in the hope of attracting UP traffic,) In the 30s they started single tracking it, something that continued into the 1970s and abandonment of it. Leaving short sections of double track and some long sidings. CTC was added in the 50s along with other track upgrades to handle the Cities' trains.
The hope was that more freight traffic would follow, which it didn't. Even so, the MILW had a run through freight with the UP. It lasted beyond the MILW's retrenchment, the UP agreeing to receive it through the Kansas City gateway instead of Council Bluffs. One of the reasons that went into the decision to abandonthe line across Iowa.
Although CNW always received the lion's share of freight traffic, the UP/CNW relationship soured during the Heineman era. It didn't improve until after he was gone, then really took off under Provo's reign in the early and mid-70s. That's when the Blair short cut really became important.
Jeff
Los Angeles Rams GuyVividly remember as a very young boy when the UP-MILW "Cities" trains would stop in Marion and, of course, all the mainline freight trains with UP power on them filled out with autoracks and intermodal. An absolute travesty that a once-79 mph passenger mainline was allowed to deteriorate the way it did and later get abandoned.
I agree. I take it some of the RoW is a bike path now. If a High(er) Speed Rail corridor were ever comtemplated across Iowa to Omaha, that could perhaps be reconfigured.
C&NW, CA&E, MILW, CGW and IC fan
While I don't argue your point about CNW having been a long-time partner of UP and getting the lion's share of UP overhead traffic at the Council Bluffs-Omaha and Fremont gateways, the truth of the matter is that the MILW was SUPPOSED to have received the majority of UP traffic at Council Bluffs and its President at the time (John P. Kiley) was badly misled by UP. Whether or not you blame questionable judgement of MILW management or greedy UP objectives, the fact of the matter is that the MILW's Iowa Division mainline was an important piece of infrastructure to the state of Iowa and its untimely demise should never have been allowed to happen.
All for naught.
Mind numbing. Such a forward looking railroad and so diverse in its functions. They had no idea of what was in store for them. As did many others in 1955. I've never been able to get my head around any of it. The more I read, the more that comes out, the more facts, the more opinions, I feel I'm getting further away from any of it making even a stick of sense.
Los Angeles Rams Guy the truth of the matter is that the MILW was SUPPOSED to have received the majority of UP traffic at Council Bluffs and its President at the time (John P. Kiley) was badly misled by UP
the truth of the matter is that the MILW was SUPPOSED to have received the majority of UP traffic at Council Bluffs and its President at the time (John P. Kiley) was badly misled by UP
If this was really the "truth" there would specific documentation of this or a contract. The C&NW was smart enough to figure out they weren't getting a lot out of running these trains and the UP was dissatisfied with their operation over the C&NW. In the mid-1950s, long distance passenger trains were still considered something that was desirable, so it would logical that UP would embellish the benefits of taking on the extra traffic because they had to get the trains to Chicago somehow (CB&Q denied the request to handle the streamliners over its route, for example.) Prior to getting the "Cities" trains, the only reserved-coach train on the Milwaukee Road was the Olympian Hiawatha; the addition of the Cities trains required that the Milwaukee add 15 more reservation clerks to handle the business in and out of Chicago. Another huge added expense.
This type of passenger-related expenditure on the part of the Milwaukee was not unique. In the 1920s, it built the Gallatin Gateway Inn as its gateway to Yellowstone Park: off the main line and pretty much out on the prairie, this one-quarter of a million dollar expenditure was hardly what anyone (else) would consider a "gateway" to anywhere. The Milwaukee paid to put in automatic block signals on its branch line between Plummer, Idaho, and Manito, Washington and on the UP from Manito through Spokane to Marengo Washington to afford its passenger trains the safety of ABS. But the Milwaukee's main line didn't run through Spokane - it bypassed it to the south on a route (Plummer to Marengo via Malden) that remained dark territory right up until the route was abandoned in 1980. (The Milwaukee's passenger train service through Spokane ended in 1961 and the Milwaukee was never allowed to use the Spokane-Marengo segment for freight, just passenger service; all freight in and out of Spokane needed to use the onerous 1.7 climb out of the Spokane river valley toward Manito.)
The route across Iowa is just another example of the Milwaukee Road having delusions of adequacy in competing with other railroads, not accepting of their own route inferiority.
Los Angeles Rams Guy the fact of the matter is that the MILW's Iowa Division mainline was an important piece of infrastructure to the state of Iowa and its untimely demise should never have been allowed to happen.
Fact? If it was a fact, it would be in service today, as is the Rock Island route across the state. Strong routes survive and even as weak as the Rock Island was, they had numerous routes important enough that someone thought them worthwhile to save, retain, and upgrade. With the ex-Burlington and ex-C&NW routes serving as the primary routes for the West's primary Class I railroads across Iowa, and the ex-CRI&P and ex-IC routes serving major (by Iowa standards) cities like Davenport, Iowa City, Des Moines, Dubuque, Waterloo-Cedar Falls, Fort Dodge, and Sioux City, the Milwaukee's route to nowhere-that-someone-else-didn't-serve-better could hardly be considered "important." And definitely not important enough to save.
I've read somewhere and will have to search to find it, that the MILW considered keeping the Council Bluffs line and abandoning the KC line. That sentiment changed, probably due to the shut down of the RI (including it's own Chicago/KC route) and the willingness of UP to receive run through traffic at KC instead of CB.
For a few years after the RI shutdown, the MILW operated the exRI between the Quad Cities and Iowa City. They looked at extending that operation west to Des Moines and possibly to Council Bluffs. A MILW executive stopped that idea with, "If we wanted to go to Council Bluffs, we would've kept our own line."
Los Angeles Rams GuyMILW's Iowa Division mainline was an important piece of infrastructure to the state of Iowa and its untimely demise should never have been allowed to happen.
I guess Mark judges the correctness of propert and/or decisions only by the bottom line impact.
Who knows? If the Hyperloop or some type of east-west bullet train ever comes to fruition, the route might become attractive again.
Gramp Who knows? If the Hyperloop or some type of east-west bullet train ever comes to fruition, the route might become attractive again.
The technology and most of the RoW for HSR are there right now. It only needs imagination (use HSR to boost economic delopment in Iowa) and will.
schlimm Gramp Who knows? If the Hyperloop or some type of east-west bullet train ever comes to fruition, the route might become attractive again. The technology and most of the RoW for HSR are there right now. It only needs imagination (use HSR to boost economic delopment in Iowa) and will.
That imagination is in extremely short supply at Terrace Hill and the State Capitol in Des Moines these days. Hence Iowa nixed efforts to get Amtrak (at regular speed) even as far as Iowa City from the Quad Cities.
VerMontanan Los Angeles Rams Guy the truth of the matter is that the MILW was SUPPOSED to have received the majority of UP traffic at Council Bluffs and its President at the time (John P. Kiley) was badly misled by UP If this was really the "truth" there would specific documentation of this or a contract. The C&NW was smart enough to figure out they weren't getting a lot out of running these trains and the UP was dissatisfied with their operation over the C&NW. In the mid-1950s, long distance passenger trains were still considered something that was desirable, so it would logical that UP would embellish the benefits of taking on the extra traffic because they had to get the trains to Chicago somehow (CB&Q denied the request to handle the streamliners over its route, for example.) Prior to getting the "Cities" trains, the only reserved-coach train on the Milwaukee Road was the Olympian Hiawatha; the addition of the Cities trains required that the Milwaukee add 15 more reservation clerks to handle the business in and out of Chicago. Another huge added expense. This type of passenger-related expenditure on the part of the Milwaukee was not unique. In the 1920s, it built the Gallatin Gateway Inn as its gateway to Yellowstone Park: off the main line and pretty much out on the prairie, this one-quarter of a million dollar expenditure was hardly what anyone (else) would consider a "gateway" to anywhere. The Milwaukee paid to put in automatic block signals on its branch line between Plummer, Idaho, and Manito, Washington and on the UP from Manito through Spokane to Marengo Washington to afford its passenger trains the safety of ABS. But the Milwaukee's main line didn't run through Spokane - it bypassed it to the south on a route (Plummer to Marengo via Malden) that remained dark territory right up until the route was abandoned in 1980. (The Milwaukee's passenger train service through Spokane ended in 1961 and the Milwaukee was never allowed to use the Spokane-Marengo segment for freight, just passenger service; all freight in and out of Spokane needed to use the onerous 1.7 climb out of the Spokane river valley toward Manito.) The route across Iowa is just another example of the Milwaukee Road having delusions of adequacy in competing with other railroads, not accepting of their own route inferiority. Los Angeles Rams Guy the fact of the matter is that the MILW's Iowa Division mainline was an important piece of infrastructure to the state of Iowa and its untimely demise should never have been allowed to happen. Fact? If it was a fact, it would be in service today, as is the Rock Island route across the state. Strong routes survive and even as weak as the Rock Island was, they had numerous routes important enough that someone thought them worthwhile to save, retain, and upgrade. With the ex-Burlington and ex-C&NW routes serving as the primary routes for the West's primary Class I railroads across Iowa, and the ex-CRI&P and ex-IC routes serving major (by Iowa standards) cities like Davenport, Iowa City, Des Moines, Dubuque, Waterloo-Cedar Falls, Fort Dodge, and Sioux City, the Milwaukee's route to nowhere-that-someone-else-didn't-serve-better could hardly be considered "important." And definitely not important enough to save.
You tend to look at this through a vacuum instead of looking at the whole picture. In October, 1955 when the MILW began operating the "Cities" trains for the Chicago - Omaha segment, it was the CNW - not the MILW - that was in dire financial straits and it was the CNW's mainline across Iowa that was in woebegone condition. Again, I can only go by what former MILW people who worked on the Iowa Division (including former managers) have told me but they were supposed to have received the lion's share of UP overhead traffic at the Council Bluffs gateway. In fact, it really wasn't until the early/mid-70's that the tide began to turn in favor of CNW. The UP actually approached the MILW in 1973 about operating high-priority intermodal trains between the west coast and the Chicago gateway and it's unfortunate that a short-sighted MILW management turned them down. Thus, UP then turned to it's one-time historical partner CNW and the rest is history. Another item is that CNW was the beneficiary of Federal funds under the 4R Act of 1976 to help rebuild its mainline across Illinois and Iowa while the MILW's mainline slowly but surely went downhill.
Los Angeles Rams GuyIn October, 1955 when the MILW began operating the "Cities" trains for the Chicago - Omaha segment, it was the CNW - not the MILW - that was in dire financial straits and it was the CNW's mainline across Iowa that was in woebegone condition. Again, I can only go by what former MILW people who worked on the Iowa Division (including former managers) have told me but they were supposed to have received the lion's share of UP overhead traffic at the Council Bluffs gateway. In fact, it really wasn't until the early/mid-70's that the tide began to turn in favor of CNW.
That is what I heard off and on throughout those 20 years.
Nobody says much about the Chicago Great Western's route from Chicago to Omaha being abandon. Would it be the same for the Milwaukee to Omaha had not the Milwaukee hosted the Union Pacific's Cities streamliners in the twilight of private intercity passenger trains?
Los Angeles Rams Guy You tend to look at this through a vacuum instead of looking at the whole picture. In October, 1955 when the MILW began operating the "Cities" trains for the Chicago - Omaha segment, it was the CNW - not the MILW - that was in dire financial straits and it was the CNW's mainline across Iowa that was in woebegone condition. Again, I can only go by what former MILW people who worked on the Iowa Division (including former managers) have told me but they were supposed to have received the lion's share of UP overhead traffic at the Council Bluffs gateway.
You tend to look at this through a vacuum instead of looking at the whole picture. In October, 1955 when the MILW began operating the "Cities" trains for the Chicago - Omaha segment, it was the CNW - not the MILW - that was in dire financial straits and it was the CNW's mainline across Iowa that was in woebegone condition. Again, I can only go by what former MILW people who worked on the Iowa Division (including former managers) have told me but they were supposed to have received the lion's share of UP overhead traffic at the Council Bluffs gateway.
It's not a huge surprise that the Milwaukee employees thought "they were supposed to have received the lion's share of UP overhead traffic." Like, they're going to think that or be told by senior management that the expediture was the boondoggle it was? Referencing people with a natural bias is anything but the "whole picture." Not wanting to blame ourselves is a common human trait.
That the Union Pacific didn't shift traffic to the Milwaukee and that the C&NW was revived to become the primary conduit of UP's Chicago traffic is proof not only of the C&NW's utility, but also the likelihood that Milwaukee management undertook this huge expenditure without any contractual commitment or guarantee of more freight traffic.
VerMontanan Los Angeles Rams Guy You tend to look at this through a vacuum instead of looking at the whole picture. In October, 1955 when the MILW began operating the "Cities" trains for the Chicago - Omaha segment, it was the CNW - not the MILW - that was in dire financial straits and it was the CNW's mainline across Iowa that was in woebegone condition. Again, I can only go by what former MILW people who worked on the Iowa Division (including former managers) have told me but they were supposed to have received the lion's share of UP overhead traffic at the Council Bluffs gateway. It's not a huge surprise that the Milwaukee employees thought "they were supposed to have received the lion's share of UP overhead traffic." Like, they're going to think that or be told by senior management that the expediture was the boondoggle it was? Referencing people with a natural bias is anything but the "whole picture." Not wanting to blame ourselves is a common human trait. That the Union Pacific didn't shift traffic to the Milwaukee and that the C&NW was revived to become the primary conduit of UP's Chicago traffic is proof not only of the C&NW's utility, but also the likelihood that Milwaukee management undertook this huge expenditure without any contractual commitment or guarantee of more freight traffic.
Here I thought in the 50's a man's word and a handshake were his bond. Guess we had a culture clash, MILW believing the UP's word was bond, and the UP doing the 21st Century practice of 'putting one over on the competition'.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
I think the MILW's decline has many factors, among them the resignation of President John Kiley in 1957, replaced by the less knowledgable Quinn. The failure of the planned merger with the CNW also hurt.
thought in the 50's a man's word and a handshake were his bond. Guess we had a culture clash, MILW believing the UP's word was bond, and the UP doing the 21st Century practice of 'putting one over on the competition'.
Observation about the late MILW Chicago-Omaha main. It was once noted in the pages of TRAINS that the various passenger stops on that line for the "Cities" Streamliners depended on bus connections to reach the city that was nearby. This would suggest that the line may have been suitable for overhead traffic but very little local business.
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