Who was the prior owner of the KCS line (St. Louis - KC) (formerly Gateway Western RR) before GWWR?

[Anonymous]

I'm curious about the history of this line. Does anyone know who owned it prior to GWWR?

Also, I'm wondering how the Chicago and Northwestern RR got to KC prior to the UP merger? I've seen a lot of photos of C&NW power on trains in KC. Did they have direct trackage or trackage rights.... or was that C&NW power on UP trains? If they had trackage, do you know what route that was?
Thx -
Dblstack

[nanaimo73]

The Gateway Western line from KC to Roodhouse, IL, and then down to East St. Louis was part of the failed regional railroad Chicago, Missouri and Western. The CM&W was a 631 mile railroad spun off by the Illinois Central Gulf on May 17, 1987. The Southern Pacific got the St. Louis to Chicago portion.
ICG aquired these lines when they merged with the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio during 1972. The GM&O got these lines in 1947, which had been the Alton Railroad, owned by the Baltimore and Ohio.

The C&NW line into Kansas City was part of the Rock Island until 1980. Before that C&NW used their former Chicago Great Western lines to reach KC.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

The Gateway Western line from KC to Roodhouse, IL, and then down to East St. Louis was part of the failed regional railroad Chicago, Missouri and Western. The CM&W was a 631 mile railroad spun off by the Illinois Central Gulf on May 17, 1987. The Southern Pacific got the St. Louis to Chicago portion.
ICG aquired these lines when they merged with the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio during 1972. The GM&O got these lines in 1947, which had been the Alton Railroad, owned by the Baltimore and Ohio.

The C&NW line into Kansas City was part of the Rock Island until 1980. Before that C&NW used their former Chicago Great Western lines to reach KC.

Minor correction... maybe -- I recently read somewhere that CNW didn't get ROCK's "Spine Line" until the mid-80s.

And before CNW acquired CGW... they didn't! [:p]

[Anonymous]

Thanks very much,
Stack

[beaulieu]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken
Minor correction... maybe -- I recently read somewhere that CNW didn't get ROCK's "Spine Line" until the mid-80s.

And before CNW acquired CGW... they didn't! [:p]

Further amplification, C&NW purchased the line in 83 or 84, but had been operating it under a FRA Directed Service Order since the Rock Island shutdown in 1980.

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

The Gateway Western line from KC to Roodhouse, IL, and then down to East St. Louis was part of the failed regional railroad Chicago, Missouri and Western. The CM&W was a 631 mile railroad spun off by the Illinois Central Gulf on May 17, 1987. The Southern Pacific got the St. Louis to Chicago portion.
ICG aquired these lines when they merged with the Gulf, Mobile and Ohio during 1972. The GM&O got these lines in 1947, which had been the Alton Railroad, owned by the Baltimore and Ohio.

The C&NW line into Kansas City was part of the Rock Island until 1980. Before that C&NW used their former Chicago Great Western lines to reach KC.

Minor correction... maybe -- I recently read somewhere that CNW didn't get ROCK's "Spine Line" until the mid-80s.

And before CNW acquired CGW... they didn't! [:p]

Mark-
The C&NW first reached KC when they aquired the CGW during July 1968. What are you disagreeing with ?

[Anonymous]

The Gateway Wstrn was a joke and had an unofficial nickname as the weebly wobbly. Cargill flour milling in Newton, KS shipped bulk flr to STL that was routed via GWWR from KC to STL. The normal transit time east of KC was one wk! Again this was back in the 1990's but as a former rail shipper who did business with them, they stunk! I'm sure KCS is having better luck moving their traffic, so I hope.

[bnsfkline]

Sammy, you are thinking of the ol CM&W

[Anonymous]

No, no not the CMNW. Never did business w/that outfit. I have copies of Cargill transit sheets from 1994 which shows the average transit time for flour loads moving from KC to STL on GWWR to be around 94 hrs. If GW couldn't get across the rd, then the loads sat for up to 48 hrs in ESTL until being delivered to CSX for movement to east coast. Of course this is all from way back in the past but hey I love talking rr history compared to modern stuff

[Anonymous]

The B&O did control the Chicago and Alton the orginial Owners of this route in the early days. That's why the Chicago-St. Louis-KC Line has a lot of ex-BO Signals.

[rrandb]

The line that KCS uses out of Kansas City to the east runs throught Independence MO. The bridge over Sterling is still signed for IC and over 23rd st. is signed for the GM&O. As always ENJOY.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

The C&NW line into Kansas City was part of the Rock Island until 1980. Before that C&NW used their former Chicago Great Western lines to reach KC.

Minor correction... maybe -- I recently read somewhere that CNW didn't get ROCK's "Spine Line" until the mid-80s.

And before CNW acquired CGW... they didn't! [:p]

Mark-
The C&NW first reached KC when they aquired the CGW during July 1968. What are you disagreeing with ?

I think beaulieu clarified what I was disagreeing with, that CNW didn't "get" the Spine Line until 1983/84, but had operated it earlier.

And before CNW acquired CGW in 1968, they weren't a Kansas City railroad.