QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes I have been a car host on the 844 and the 819 and watched people pace these steam trains. Frankly, after watching those pacing the train I have decided I would never do so in a pack. It is extremely dangerous. Those pacing the train will pull out into oncoming traffic. And not just one at a time but those following will do it also. If that isn't bad enought I have seen people standing up in the bed of a pickup truck shooting video while the truck was doing anywhere from 30 to 60 mph. The pacing pack will include (sometimes) hundreds of cars and trucks, and everyone of them wants a shot of the engine while pacing it. I have seen drivers do some very crazy things while pacing a steam engine. I know this is slightly off topic from the original post but pacing the train is very dangerous to those pacing the train and to on coming traffic. Many drivers lose their sense of safety when pacing a train and the results could be tragic. Please be careful if you ever pace a train. If you have done so then you have an idea of what I mean. If you have never paced a train you might really want to consider not doing so, especially if it is a steam engine. I have seen some very close calls, that would have been extremely grave, so please be careful. There are not as many people chasing diesels so it is definately safer. But there is still a need to watch out what you are doing and be careful.
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed H'mm where I did it there was really no traffic & it really was a thrilling experience & I have come back to talk about it. Naturally I just paced a plain old ordinary stacker & maybe when you are talking of a special train like 844 or 3985 there may be more people but also they do not wi***o get killed so I am sure they were just as careful as I was & I was doing 70MPH while my bro was taping the train. See for yourself & notice how many cars were on the road with me in either direction during the taping. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4360162034832389620 If you keep you sense about you I see nothing wrong with doing it on roads that are hardly ever traveled. [:D] QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes I have been a car host on the 844 and the 819 and watched people pace these steam trains. Frankly, after watching those pacing the train I have decided I would never do so in a pack. It is extremely dangerous. Those pacing the train will pull out into oncoming traffic. And not just one at a time but those following will do it also. If that isn't bad enought I have seen people standing up in the bed of a pickup truck shooting video while the truck was doing anywhere from 30 to 60 mph. The pacing pack will include (sometimes) hundreds of cars and trucks, and everyone of them wants a shot of the engine while pacing it. I have seen drivers do some very crazy things while pacing a steam engine. I know this is slightly off topic from the original post but pacing the train is very dangerous to those pacing the train and to on coming traffic. Many drivers lose their sense of safety when pacing a train and the results could be tragic. Please be careful if you ever pace a train. If you have done so then you have an idea of what I mean. If you have never paced a train you might really want to consider not doing so, especially if it is a steam engine. I have seen some very close calls, that would have been extremely grave, so please be careful. There are not as many people chasing diesels so it is definately safer. But there is still a need to watch out what you are doing and be careful.
Best Regards, Big John
Kiva Valley Railway- Freelanced road in central Arizona. Visit the link to see my MR forum thread on The Building of the Whitton Branch on the Kiva Valley Railway
QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed H'mm where I did it there was really no traffic & it really was a thrilling experience & I have come back to talk about it. Naturally I just paced a plain old ordinary stacker & maybe when you are talking of a special train like 844 or 3985 there may be more people but also they do not wi***o get killed so I am sure they were just as careful as I was & I was doing 70MPH while my bro was taping the train. See for yourself & notice how many cars were on the road with me in either direction during the taping. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4360162034832389620 If you keep you sense about you I see nothing wrong with doing it on roads that are hardly ever traveled. [:D] QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes I have been a car host on the 844 and the 819 and watched people pace these steam trains. Frankly, after watching those pacing the train I have decided I would never do so in a pack. It is extremely dangerous. Those pacing the train will pull out into oncoming traffic. And not just one at a time but those following will do it also. If that isn't bad enought I have seen people standing up in the bed of a pickup truck shooting video while the truck was doing anywhere from 30 to 60 mph. The pacing pack will include (sometimes) hundreds of cars and trucks, and everyone of them wants a shot of the engine while pacing it. I have seen drivers do some very crazy things while pacing a steam engine. I know this is slightly off topic from the original post but pacing the train is very dangerous to those pacing the train and to on coming traffic. Many drivers lose their sense of safety when pacing a train and the results could be tragic. Please be careful if you ever pace a train. If you have done so then you have an idea of what I mean. If you have never paced a train you might really want to consider not doing so, especially if it is a steam engine. I have seen some very close calls, that would have been extremely grave, so please be careful. There are not as many people chasing diesels so it is definately safer. But there is still a need to watch out what you are doing and be careful. I guess you really didn't pay attention to what I said. I have witnessed some nearly head on collisions. People loose all sense of safety when pacing a steam engine. Many of them get down right crazy. It is a madhouse. When pacing a diesel you may have driven safely. When pacing a steam engine in a crowd of many cars EVERYONE wants to be in front and jockies for that position. So ride a steam excursion such as the 844 or 3985 and you will see what I mean. People on the train talk about how crazy the drivers pacing the train actually are. And they see some very wild things happen. Some of those pacing the train may try to be safe, many are not. Go pace a diesel, it is much safer.
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed I will speculate that railfans in general would not do what we see the "average" person do
Pacing is extremly dangerous if you don't want to cause an acident, get busted by Highway Patrol, or get wacked by a railroad bull DON'T PACE! With #844 and Big Boy heading to Ogden pacing shots will be almost impossible. With construction on 84/80 and Echo Road traffic will be reduced to one lane. Another problem is Highway Patrol if you pace you get nailed Highway Patrol will pull you over, place you in cuffs, and give you a ticket. And last but not least the people that Railfans and Hobos hate The Bulls who will be watching the tracks like a hawk is you run into them your dead and the last thing you want is them drawing a weapon on you. Play it safe find a rest area, park at Wasatch or Castle Rock, or launch a camera drone.
Never too old to have a happy childhood!
Here's one I did back in February of this year that has over four minutes of pacing in it...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jhnR557GmCc
sanvtomanDoes anyone know of other pacing videos or clips?
geomodelrailroaderPacing is extremly dangerous if you don't want to cause an acident, get busted by Highway Patrol, or get wacked by a railroad bull DON'T PACE!
I would submit that if you are on public highways, within the posted speed limits, obey traffic control devices, do not interfere with the flow of traffic, and have one person dedicated to the driving while others shoot the video, you're not going to have a problem with law enforcement.
Having suitable roads on which to pace is another story, and is self-limiting at any rate. If there are no roads paralleling the tracks, you're not going to pace.
OTOH, racing to get from one vantage point to another can be a problem. I saw this in MI some years ago, where the tracks went diagonally cross country, while the roads were almost all on a grid.
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
"Another problem is Highway Patrol if you pace you get nailed Highway Patrol will pull you over, place you in cuffs, and give you a ticket."
I don't think I've ever seen anyone handcuffed for a simple traffic stop-speed, blowing a stop sign, improper turn, etc. They just pull you over, write the ticket, and cut you loose. Pacing, in and of itself, is not illegal, or necessarily dangerous, unless it involves some traffic infraction or somehow creates a traffic hazard. If you're pacing the train at 45 MPH on I 80(speed limit 75 in Wyoming), you could get stopped for impeding the flow of traffic. That act would constitute both traffic violation and hazard. Still, unless they do things differently in Wyoming and Utah than elsewhere, a simple traffic stop doesn't get you in handcuffs.
geomodelrailroader The Bulls who will be watching the tracks like a hawk is you run into them your dead and the last thing you want is them drawing a weapon on you.
The Bulls who will be watching the tracks like a hawk is you run into them your dead and the last thing you want is them drawing a weapon on you.
Back in the days when NS was running 611 trips, I remember how people on the train between Portsmouth and Columbis OH enjoyed watching the Highway Patrol stop the pacers on the highway that were trying to keep up with our train. Train 1, Pacers 0. HP 20
I dealt with pacers vs. chasers with NKP 765's ex-Erie Buffalo-Corning NY trips in 1985. After riding Youngstown-Buffalo on Thursday June 6, Friday June 7 I scouted the line from the Portageville Bridge to Corning noting locations. June 8 I rode and got the trackage and noted the times at every point--765 was doing up to 72mph (Attica Hill-a hotbox detector put an end to that!); a Worthy Challenge! What transpired Sunday was that my aunt and grandmother delayed my departure from Rochester and I got to The Bridge at the time of yesterday's train(!)--But the train was 20 minutes late! So, yes I got a lot of shots of 765 on The Bridge (now of late lamented memory) and since there were annual spring slow orders near Dalton, 765 crawled through which meant I easily caught up to her and continued on.
Now here's where pacers vs. chasers enters; I caught on that there seemed to be some headlight/flashers code which showed which one you were but I can't remember now what it was! I do remember the challenge of passing (my Dad taught me how to handle two-lane roads so I knew how) that afternoon and got some choice locations while having to give many others up with a 60-70mph train. The only incident I saw all weekend was the previous day when someone ran off the road just east of Hornell with his car standing on its right side then falling to earth right side up; no I didn't get the picture. Don't know if it was a railfan or an outsider--Be Careful, Boys! I didn't go out to chase in 2015--I knew locations would be gone, the spring slow orders were gone too, and with the trees cut around The Bridge it was now just a not-so-big ancient rusty wrought-iron trestle bridge from 1875 undergoing daily inspections for safety (I spoke with the crew doing the inspections)--and I had driven out 450 miles two months earlier for Final Portageville Bridge Worship Services.
So, what was the Chasing like for 765 in 2015--and how was Pacers vs. Chasers handled thrity years later?
A story I remember on another Rail forum was about a man standing in the driver's seat, his body sticking out a sun-roof, with one foot on the steering wheel, his eye glued to the viewfinder of a movie camera ained at steam loco on the mainline. It was assumed the car cruise control was on. I have no idea how long it lasted, but no mention was made of any sort of disaster.
Semper Vaporo
Pkgs.
Seeing all of the above horror stories about chasing/pacing confirms that I had the right idea. I would pick out a good spot and get my pictures at that spot. After the train passed and the crowds went away, I would stick around for more pictures of ordinary operations. I did not feel the need to shoot whole rolls of film on SR 4501, N&W 611 or whatever.
I rode on the #844 steam special trip in 2010 from Omaha to North Platte, she was cut off and diesel took us from one side to another in Bailey Yard where classic diesels were hooked up to take us back to Omaha. We had seats in dome diner and watched a lot of pacers and saw some near accidents But the funniest one was a cop car doing speed limit and a huge line of cars behind him, no one dared to pass him as they would get a ticket. #844 left them all behind. We all got a laugh out of that creative cop. Have never paced except when we rode #611 in 2015 and went next day to watch her at a crossing we'd been told about. She passed and we jumped in the car and our driver did keep up very well for a short distance until tracks veered away. And we just returned from Golden Spike event and by sheer luck, we caught the double header in Echo Canyon heading to Morgan, UT which was where we were going. We kept it with them for about 15 mins and got great pics and video. The traffic was bad at first but it suddenly opened up and we had no problems. It can be dangerous.
By “pacing,” do you mean shooting from a moving car traveling parallel to the train? (I’ve never done that.)
I have often chased trains, leapfrogging them, getting pix while I’m stationary at a location. I’m guessing most of you have done this also. But even with just me (no other chasers), this can be dangerous. Often I drive faster than usual, and sometimes I might brake suddenly if I see a good photo location. One is focusing on more than driving. I’ve never had an incident, but I’ve had some close calls.
Lithonia OperatorBy “pacing,” do you mean shooting from a moving car traveling parallel to the train?
"Pacing" is train-chasing that involves moving parallel with the train, usually with the power, without 'leapfrogging' to get to good views, setup locations for photography, etc. It does not necessarily presume a solo driver is taking photos or video while doing so, although of course many examples of the 'practice' show this -- because we wouldn't be seeing them at all if the solo driver hadn't been shooting...
Here for your enjoyment is one of the 'canonical' examples of pacing, which never grows old (I'm pretty sure from the relative camera stability it was shot by a passenger):
(Go to about 2:30 to 2:40 for the moment you may be wanting...)
Great pacing shots! Just a couple of things...
1) I DO hope whoever was shooting those movies was in the back seat with the camera, and NOT the driver!
2) Man, the fireman on 3751 really knows his business! Talk about a clean stack!
Every time I see one of those magnificent machines putting on a show that nothing else can I still ask myself "Why'd they get rid of those things?" Of course I have to tell myself "Stop asking stupid questions, come on now, you KNOW why they got rid of those things!"
But I still have to ask. Know what I mean?
Flintlock76Every time I see one of those magnificent machines putting on a show that nothing else can I still ask myself "Why'd they get rid of those things?"
But you see, you are conflating two very different things in the question.
Were all ATSF (or BNSF) operations possible with perfectly and lovingly maintained steam locomotives, driven without regard to meets or other operational delays, with reserve diesels ready in any case of road failure ... you might see more of them.
If normal ATSF level steam operations could be conducted with perfectly maintained locomotives, cared for by volunteers in most respects ... the economics would work better.
The thought of hundreds or even thousands of these things, glorious as they are, each with its giant sucking sound consumption of ... well, not waste oil as some folks seem to think, is not nearly as promising as what we derive from the number of current or prospective steam restorations. Remember 'familiarity breeds contempt'? -- might become disturbingly true even for much of the fan community given enough time. And also remember that pacers don't pay for the train.
Like I said, I know why they got rid of those things. Dammit.
Think of Thomas Jefferson's "Head and Heart" letter, heavily edited, and applied to steam locomotion instead of Maria Cosway.
Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.