5' gauge lines in the USA

[Tulyar15]

I just noticed on the thred about the General that it was originally 5' gauge. I did not know this gauge was used in the USA. Can some please elaborate.

I was aware that the Erie road was originally 6' gauge and I think some early lines in the US were 5' 6". Can anyone confirm this please?

[mersenne6]

Early gauges were all over the map. The first railroads were very local affairs and things didn't settle down for a long time. By the time of the Civil War there was something of a north/south split with the southern states "sort of" favoring 5' gauge and the northern states "sort of" favoring 4'8.5" . (Please note the emphasis on "sort of" because there were lots of exceptions). After the Civil War there was an overall push in the direction of of the standard. The last two major 5 foot railroads were the north/south running IC and Mobile and Ohio. They were respiked during one weekend in the mid 1880's.

Prior to the respiking a certain percentage of the cars and engines on these roads were put on side tracks and regauged. Section crews were assigned about 5 miles of track apiece for respiking and the work was completed during the time alotted.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Remember that the Clover Leaf (NKP's Toledo-St. Louis line) was originally built as a 3' gauge line, meant to be part of a large narrow-gauge network. If this network became economically viable, we may have wound up with a two-gauge rail network similar to that of India, who is now in the process of converting its meter-gauge network to the broad gauge of 5' 6".

The Pennsylvania RR was originally built to 4'9".

[Tulyar15]

Thanks for the replies.

In Britain some early lines were 5' gauge and I believe it was a result of this that the Russians adopted 5' gauge as their standard. To-day, as far as I know 5' gauge is only found in countries that were either part of the Russian empire pre 1917 (eg Finland) or part of the Soviet Union.

I found out recently that Argentina has quite a mix of gauges. I thought all their main lines were 5' 6", as used in Spain and India (and neighbouring Chile) but it turns out they have some 4' 8.5" lines too. Apparrently the 5' 6" lines were built by Brits and the 4' 8.5" by Americans. Fortunately Railfans there have managed to preserve a good selection of steam locos on both gauges, consisting of a good mixture of British and American products.

[carnej1]

I seem to remember reading that there were some broadgauge industrial railroads in the US, even in modern times, primarily in steelmills. I don't know the track guage involved though.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1

I seem to remember reading that there were some broadgauge industrial railroads in the US, even in modern times, primarily in steelmills. I don't know the track guage involved though.

Most steel mills in the United States used 3' gauge for their in-plant trackage, with small 4-wheel switchers as the motive power.

[Anonymous]

Prior to 1852 any railroad in the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania had to be constructed to a gauge of 4 feet 10 inches. At the request of the New York Central and the New York and Erie this law was repealed late in 1852 (standard gauge and 6 foot respectively). However the law that replaced it required that any railroad passing through the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania had to change gauges within the state. Thus any freight passing through had to be transloaded by Pennsylvania workers. And any passengers must change cars (looks like a ploy for Hotels and Restaurants).

At this same time the State of Ohio required that railroads within its borders be 5 feet gauge. After 1852 "Ohio" gauge was permitted as far east as the city of Erie.

So prior to 1852 if you traveled westward from New York you traveled on either standard or 6 foot gauge to the Pennsylvania State line. There you changed into new cars and traveled the few miles through the city of Erie to the Ohio State line where you again changed cars. After 1852 you only needed to change at Erie.

When Lincoln passed the law making 4 foot 8 and one half inches standard the problems went away slowly.

[mudchicken]

Early in its history, MoPac predecessor StLouis Iron Mountain and Southern was 5'-0". You will find this gauge scattered throughout the eastern 2/3rds of the US and the conversion to 4'-8.5" did not happen all at once and had multiple reasons for evolving.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1

I seem to remember reading that there were some broadgauge industrial railroads in the US, even in modern times, primarily in steelmills. I don't know the track guage involved though.

Most steel mills in the United States used 3' gauge for their in-plant trackage, with small 4-wheel switchers as the motive power.

Beth and Whierton Steel used 6' gauge electric cars to hall hot metal from the BOF to rolling mills. I think thts what CSSHEGEWISCH was refering to.

[Tulyar15]

I've also recently discovered the existence of a 5' 4" line at a Nuclear Plant in Scotland. The line is completely self contained and the reason for its unique (as far as I know) gauge is that they decided it would be the optimum gauge to handle the containers it has to transport.

[Murphy Siding]

I found a reference book: The Routledge Historical Atlas of the American Railroads. (in 1860) : Atlantic & St Lawrence was 5-6 "Canadian" gauge,because it connected with Canadian lines to Motreal. Erie was built at 6' gauge. Most of New Jersey used 4'-10", which was also dominant in Ohio. 4'-8 1/2" was fairly common in the northern half of the country. 5' gauge was in South Carolina, Georgia, Florida, Tennesee,Mississippi, Alabama,Kentucky, Louisiana and Virginia. 5-6 was also found in Louisiana,Missouri,Arkansas, and Texas.

[Paul Milenkovic]

What gauge does BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) operate? I remember it was some kind of wide gauge because 1) it didn't need to interchange or interoperate with anyting else, 2) they were going to be "techie-sexy-modern", and 3) it made for easier placement of traction motors.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Paul Milenkovic

What gauge does BART (Bay Area Rapid Transit) operate? I remember it was some kind of wide gauge because 1) it didn't need to interchange or interoperate with anyting else, 2) they were going to be "techie-sexy-modern", and 3) it made for easier placement of traction motors.

BART operates on 5'6" gauge. Some of SEPTA's car routes are on 4' 10 7/8".