Thefts by railfans (possibly)

[zardoz]

The following was copied from
http://www.railroad.net/forums/messages.asp?TopicID=1183#109815
------------------------

I have been informed by the Strasburg Rail Road that:

"Last night, thieves forcibly broke in at the Strasburg Rail Road's engine house, and took the following items:

The number plates from engines #31, #90, #475, Classification lights from engines #31, and #89, 1 new classification light, 6 rear end marker lamps (4 kerosene, 2 converted to battery operation), 1 photograph of engine #89 on the Green Mountain (Side view with specifications), 1 Strasburg Rail Road rule book (Red loose leaf format), 1 Small (about ½ normal size) locomotive brass bell and yoke., 1 ICC steam locomotive defect chart.

They also forced open (and destroyed in the process) a steel door to the back shop, but we haven't spotted anything missing from in there yet. It appears that there were two perpetrators in that they left many footprints and tire tracks in the snow. Pennsylvania State Police are investigating. They seemed to have a specific "shopping list" in that they took only railfan collectibles, and only specific ones at that.

We at the Strasburg Rail Road ask for the help of the community to return our property to us, and to bring these criminals to justice. If anyone has any information, please call the Strasburg Rail Road at 717-687-8421"

Mike
Railroad.net Webmaster
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We were asked by the Ontario Midland Railroad to alert the railfan community at large to a theft of signal equipment from several railroad crossing circuit boxes along their route from Sodus, N.Y. to Newark, N.Y.

Someone with a triangular signal maintainer's key removed the locks from several cabinets, and also removed instruction manuals, schematics, and federal inspection papers from several locations. The locks were not forcibly removed, which leads to the conclusion that whoever took the materials was someone with a key (possibly a rail buff, since the locks were removed, and not simply cut off).

While any theft of railroad equipment is horrible, this is a little more important than the removal of a horn or a bell. Someone with a key and schematics of the crossing circuits could sabotage the entire system. The key used to open these signal cabinets is nearly industry standard, so the effect is not limited to OMID.

If you hear of anyone trying to sell or acquire these materials; or hear of anyone asking for out-of-the-ordinary information about signal circuits and crossing protection, please either let us know, or contact the OMID directly: [phone].

Mike
Railroad.net Webmaster
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Between Friday June 27, 2003 and Monday June 30, 2003, The SMS Lines Railroad was the victim of a theft of the air horns from their fleet of locomotives at their Pureland NJ facility. Not only did the theives remove the airhorns, but much damage was done to the cabs of the locomotives. These thugs also attempted to remove the bells, but were unsuccessful. They did manage to damage the mountings and brackets. The horns that were removed are listed as follows:

1) Leslie model 200

2) Leslie model SL3a (3 chime)

3) Nathan P-5 (has broken casting from being pried off..was welded to roof)

4) Nathan M-3 (CN style)

The railroad is offering a reward for the return of these pieces.

So, what is the result of this action by a thug or a group of thugs? The railroad has posted a NO-Railfan policy. The last Field day was really the Last One....EVER.... No more open houses, tours or friendly employees. If anyone knows anything about this incident, NOW is the time to come forward and identify these thugs.

Kermit Geary, Jr
SRS 854
Former SMS Conductor

Mike
Railroad.net Webmaster
------------------------------------------------

THIS is the kind of behavior that gives us a bad name with the railroad companies. If anyone has any info, I highly recommend doing the right thing.

[zardoz]

The following was copied from
http://www.railroad.net/forums/messages.asp?TopicID=1183#109815
------------------------

I have been informed by the Strasburg Rail Road that:

"Last night, thieves forcibly broke in at the Strasburg Rail Road's engine house, and took the following items:

The number plates from engines #31, #90, #475, Classification lights from engines #31, and #89, 1 new classification light, 6 rear end marker lamps (4 kerosene, 2 converted to battery operation), 1 photograph of engine #89 on the Green Mountain (Side view with specifications), 1 Strasburg Rail Road rule book (Red loose leaf format), 1 Small (about ½ normal size) locomotive brass bell and yoke., 1 ICC steam locomotive defect chart.

They also forced open (and destroyed in the process) a steel door to the back shop, but we haven't spotted anything missing from in there yet. It appears that there were two perpetrators in that they left many footprints and tire tracks in the snow. Pennsylvania State Police are investigating. They seemed to have a specific "shopping list" in that they took only railfan collectibles, and only specific ones at that.

We at the Strasburg Rail Road ask for the help of the community to return our property to us, and to bring these criminals to justice. If anyone has any information, please call the Strasburg Rail Road at 717-687-8421"

Mike
Railroad.net Webmaster
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
We were asked by the Ontario Midland Railroad to alert the railfan community at large to a theft of signal equipment from several railroad crossing circuit boxes along their route from Sodus, N.Y. to Newark, N.Y.

Someone with a triangular signal maintainer's key removed the locks from several cabinets, and also removed instruction manuals, schematics, and federal inspection papers from several locations. The locks were not forcibly removed, which leads to the conclusion that whoever took the materials was someone with a key (possibly a rail buff, since the locks were removed, and not simply cut off).

While any theft of railroad equipment is horrible, this is a little more important than the removal of a horn or a bell. Someone with a key and schematics of the crossing circuits could sabotage the entire system. The key used to open these signal cabinets is nearly industry standard, so the effect is not limited to OMID.

If you hear of anyone trying to sell or acquire these materials; or hear of anyone asking for out-of-the-ordinary information about signal circuits and crossing protection, please either let us know, or contact the OMID directly: [phone].

Mike
Railroad.net Webmaster
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Between Friday June 27, 2003 and Monday June 30, 2003, The SMS Lines Railroad was the victim of a theft of the air horns from their fleet of locomotives at their Pureland NJ facility. Not only did the theives remove the airhorns, but much damage was done to the cabs of the locomotives. These thugs also attempted to remove the bells, but were unsuccessful. They did manage to damage the mountings and brackets. The horns that were removed are listed as follows:

1) Leslie model 200

2) Leslie model SL3a (3 chime)

3) Nathan P-5 (has broken casting from being pried off..was welded to roof)

4) Nathan M-3 (CN style)

The railroad is offering a reward for the return of these pieces.

So, what is the result of this action by a thug or a group of thugs? The railroad has posted a NO-Railfan policy. The last Field day was really the Last One....EVER.... No more open houses, tours or friendly employees. If anyone knows anything about this incident, NOW is the time to come forward and identify these thugs.

Kermit Geary, Jr
SRS 854
Former SMS Conductor

Mike
Railroad.net Webmaster
------------------------------------------------

THIS is the kind of behavior that gives us a bad name with the railroad companies. If anyone has any info, I highly recommend doing the right thing.

[ironhorseman]

It's not the comman, everyday, ordinary, run-of-the-mill railfan. The people that steal this stuff are looking to sell it and sell it for a high price more than keep it. They're meticulous, cunning, and calculating. I have by degree in criminal justice and have studied many types of criminals.

Three elements need to be present to commit a crime: 1) a person who is motivated 2) the opportunity 3) absence of guardians (police, citizens, etc). This goes beyond a simple burglary where a person is a habitual theif. It's a good possibility that if caught in the act these railfan theives may be dangerous, and I stress maybe. Stealing historical artifacts is a big business and, like dealing with drugs, these criminals will do most anything to "score" their prize, even if it means injuring anyone that may witness their actions.

Where these items will go is most likely on the black market. They knew exactly what they were going to take before they took it. Someone probably requested certain items and pay these theives to steal it. It's also possible, in another scenario, that these professional theives case their targets well in advance making inventories of not only rail museums buy all museums across the US. The Dalton Defender's Museum i Coffeyville, KS had some origional guns used in the Dalton's last bank robbery which were stolen well over 10 years ago, before the advent of eBay, so you know that wasn't the intent. I don't think those guns were ever recovered. They'll take these items and hold them for a long time until the case goes cold. Not always, but sometimes, the really stupid ones will sell these things on eBay and the like and also at train shows, pawn shops, hobby stores, etc. and get caught.

We're losing are historical treasures to thieves every year for them to hoard in their private collections. Just keep your eye out for items if you shop from the internet or dealers with questionable or shady backgrounds. Don't try to confront a suspect or known theif. Call the police, FBI, or the museums listed above.

Let's retrieve these items to the rightful owners so that all may enjoy.

[ironhorseman]

It's not the comman, everyday, ordinary, run-of-the-mill railfan. The people that steal this stuff are looking to sell it and sell it for a high price more than keep it. They're meticulous, cunning, and calculating. I have by degree in criminal justice and have studied many types of criminals.

Three elements need to be present to commit a crime: 1) a person who is motivated 2) the opportunity 3) absence of guardians (police, citizens, etc). This goes beyond a simple burglary where a person is a habitual theif. It's a good possibility that if caught in the act these railfan theives may be dangerous, and I stress maybe. Stealing historical artifacts is a big business and, like dealing with drugs, these criminals will do most anything to "score" their prize, even if it means injuring anyone that may witness their actions.

Where these items will go is most likely on the black market. They knew exactly what they were going to take before they took it. Someone probably requested certain items and pay these theives to steal it. It's also possible, in another scenario, that these professional theives case their targets well in advance making inventories of not only rail museums buy all museums across the US. The Dalton Defender's Museum i Coffeyville, KS had some origional guns used in the Dalton's last bank robbery which were stolen well over 10 years ago, before the advent of eBay, so you know that wasn't the intent. I don't think those guns were ever recovered. They'll take these items and hold them for a long time until the case goes cold. Not always, but sometimes, the really stupid ones will sell these things on eBay and the like and also at train shows, pawn shops, hobby stores, etc. and get caught.

We're losing are historical treasures to thieves every year for them to hoard in their private collections. Just keep your eye out for items if you shop from the internet or dealers with questionable or shady backgrounds. Don't try to confront a suspect or known theif. Call the police, FBI, or the museums listed above.

Let's retrieve these items to the rightful owners so that all may enjoy.

[Anonymous]

Well, it's a shame that rail nuts are getting lumped into the categorie of thieves but you have to look at it from the railroad's side. Everyday we are faced with "railfans" tresspassing on private property in order to get a good picture or possibly a piece of memorbilia. Besides from being extremely dangerous, employees of the rr don't know what your intentions are. I've had railnuts approach me in the middle of the night, in absolute darkness, and ask if maybe they could have a copy of an old switch list or a peek at the inside of the locomotive. I once cracked a guy in the head with my lantern because he snuck up on me and scared the crap out of me. It turns out all he wanted was to throw a switch but my safety comes first. He's lucky to only get a black eye out of the ordeal. What I'm saying is that you may feel that your rights are being taken but really they just want a safer enviroment (theft, injuries or accidents).

[Anonymous]

Well, it's a shame that rail nuts are getting lumped into the categorie of thieves but you have to look at it from the railroad's side. Everyday we are faced with "railfans" tresspassing on private property in order to get a good picture or possibly a piece of memorbilia. Besides from being extremely dangerous, employees of the rr don't know what your intentions are. I've had railnuts approach me in the middle of the night, in absolute darkness, and ask if maybe they could have a copy of an old switch list or a peek at the inside of the locomotive. I once cracked a guy in the head with my lantern because he snuck up on me and scared the crap out of me. It turns out all he wanted was to throw a switch but my safety comes first. He's lucky to only get a black eye out of the ordeal. What I'm saying is that you may feel that your rights are being taken but really they just want a safer enviroment (theft, injuries or accidents).

[Anonymous]

It's a real shame that there are now railfans who stealing items from preserved steam locomotives of all things! The Strasburg story particularly angers me. How could any of these guys-especially whoever has the number plates-live with their conscience. A railfan should be someone who is in support of the railroads and railroad preservation societies out there. To steal or buy stolen goods goes against their love of trains.

I am familiar with the type of theft that ironhorseman is talking about. I am reminded of the Barry Scrapyard in Britain, which had well over 200 steam locomotives. Railfans and preservation groups became very aware of these engines when they sat for a long time without being scrapped. The owners decided to offer these engines to railfans instead of scrapping them and the site became a landmark. However, theft was a huge problem. People would use a torch to cut off vital parts without worrying about what else they damaged while doing it. It led the scrapyard owners to remove all tempting items such as whistles, bells, builders plates, etc. so they wouldn't be stolen and then once an engine was sold give it to the buyer.

There is another perfectly legal, but no less unscrupulous thing I've heard of being done. In some third world countries where steam is still being used railfans have actually struck deals with railroad (or whatever industry the engines work for) owners to take off the builders plates from working engines to sell to them. Probably at bargain prices!

I myself have a very large collection of items I have picked up from along the tracks such as rusty spikes, etc. Junk that is of no use to the railroads. I wouldn't consider that theft. I would never consider stealing items that a railroad wants or is using. I once met a man who had a large number of beautiful black and white framed pictures that he collected from the rubble after the CP station was torn down in Yorkton, Saskatchewan. These are of great historical signifigance and it was a good thing he saved them. However, had he broken into the station while still in use and taken then he would be a criminal. It's very, very important for railfans to realise that there is a fine line between taking something you find as a souvenir and outright theft. The thing with people who do steal railroad items is that they simply don't care. They know it's wrong, but they do it anyway.

I sincerely hope that whoever is behind these thefts is caught and severely prosecuted and that the event is heavily publicised! If that does happen hopefully it will be a good example to make others think twice before doing such a thing!

[Anonymous]

It's a real shame that there are now railfans who stealing items from preserved steam locomotives of all things! The Strasburg story particularly angers me. How could any of these guys-especially whoever has the number plates-live with their conscience. A railfan should be someone who is in support of the railroads and railroad preservation societies out there. To steal or buy stolen goods goes against their love of trains.

I am familiar with the type of theft that ironhorseman is talking about. I am reminded of the Barry Scrapyard in Britain, which had well over 200 steam locomotives. Railfans and preservation groups became very aware of these engines when they sat for a long time without being scrapped. The owners decided to offer these engines to railfans instead of scrapping them and the site became a landmark. However, theft was a huge problem. People would use a torch to cut off vital parts without worrying about what else they damaged while doing it. It led the scrapyard owners to remove all tempting items such as whistles, bells, builders plates, etc. so they wouldn't be stolen and then once an engine was sold give it to the buyer.

There is another perfectly legal, but no less unscrupulous thing I've heard of being done. In some third world countries where steam is still being used railfans have actually struck deals with railroad (or whatever industry the engines work for) owners to take off the builders plates from working engines to sell to them. Probably at bargain prices!

I myself have a very large collection of items I have picked up from along the tracks such as rusty spikes, etc. Junk that is of no use to the railroads. I wouldn't consider that theft. I would never consider stealing items that a railroad wants or is using. I once met a man who had a large number of beautiful black and white framed pictures that he collected from the rubble after the CP station was torn down in Yorkton, Saskatchewan. These are of great historical signifigance and it was a good thing he saved them. However, had he broken into the station while still in use and taken then he would be a criminal. It's very, very important for railfans to realise that there is a fine line between taking something you find as a souvenir and outright theft. The thing with people who do steal railroad items is that they simply don't care. They know it's wrong, but they do it anyway.

I sincerely hope that whoever is behind these thefts is caught and severely prosecuted and that the event is heavily publicised! If that does happen hopefully it will be a good example to make others think twice before doing such a thing!

[JoeKoh]

I hate it when people do this crap!We have some railroad events coming around(deshler days) etc.I'll copy your list and keep my eyes open.
stay safe
joe

[JoeKoh]

I hate it when people do this crap!We have some railroad events coming around(deshler days) etc.I'll copy your list and keep my eyes open.
stay safe
joe

[Trainnut484]

It is sad that theft of historical RR artifacts is giving us railfans a bad name with the railroads. The number of places to watch trains is diminishing due to the RRs posting NO TRESPASSING signs where there were none before. I just want to add on to fishman's story. I have heard horror stories about railfans that were confrontive with special agents...ie "I DON'T HAVE TO GIVE YOU MY NAME." Special agents only want your name for their protection. When I lived in Emporia, KS, I frequently chatted with the special agent that covered the area. He knew who I was, and what car I drove, and why I was there. You know what? I was never bothered when I sat at trackside. Now since after 9/11 things there and everywhere has changed. Stealing only makes it worse.

[Trainnut484]

It is sad that theft of historical RR artifacts is giving us railfans a bad name with the railroads. The number of places to watch trains is diminishing due to the RRs posting NO TRESPASSING signs where there were none before. I just want to add on to fishman's story. I have heard horror stories about railfans that were confrontive with special agents...ie "I DON'T HAVE TO GIVE YOU MY NAME." Special agents only want your name for their protection. When I lived in Emporia, KS, I frequently chatted with the special agent that covered the area. He knew who I was, and what car I drove, and why I was there. You know what? I was never bothered when I sat at trackside. Now since after 9/11 things there and everywhere has changed. Stealing only makes it worse.

[Anonymous]

Okay, I read everyone's posting carefully. Has anyone considered that this might have been an inside job? The original posting ASKED the railfans to keep an eye out for this equipment. Why? Because we know what it is and what it's worth. So did the person(s) who took this equipment. I'm not saying it was a railroad employee, either current or former, but most railfans don't have access to a signal maintainers key, and even if it were found, how many of us know what it would unlock? I am very hesitant to place blame on any group, but I think some of you have misread the intent of the article and thought the finger was being pointed at railfans. I don't think so, I think it was asking for our help, and that's what we should be focussing on, helping the cause, not hurting it.

[Anonymous]

Okay, I read everyone's posting carefully. Has anyone considered that this might have been an inside job? The original posting ASKED the railfans to keep an eye out for this equipment. Why? Because we know what it is and what it's worth. So did the person(s) who took this equipment. I'm not saying it was a railroad employee, either current or former, but most railfans don't have access to a signal maintainers key, and even if it were found, how many of us know what it would unlock? I am very hesitant to place blame on any group, but I think some of you have misread the intent of the article and thought the finger was being pointed at railfans. I don't think so, I think it was asking for our help, and that's what we should be focussing on, helping the cause, not hurting it.

[Anonymous]

Joe-

Sure. Blame it on the employee. Never mind that generations of railfans have collected railroad keys and locks. Oh, and lets not forget that the Strasburg Railroad is an excursion railroad where many folks who are not run through the types of criminal history and background investigations that Class 1 railroaders are.

In addition, how do you explain the thefts of the horns from the Baldwins at SMS recently. Or the numerous other horn thefts and artifact thefts around the country.

Sorry, but blaming the employees only makes railroads more defensive and less likely to hire anyone with "I like trains" associated with him (or her). Another long standing thread on this board asks why railroaders dislike railfans. Certainly, these sorts of allegations are one reason.

LC

[Anonymous]

Joe-

Sure. Blame it on the employee. Never mind that generations of railfans have collected railroad keys and locks. Oh, and lets not forget that the Strasburg Railroad is an excursion railroad where many folks who are not run through the types of criminal history and background investigations that Class 1 railroaders are.

In addition, how do you explain the thefts of the horns from the Baldwins at SMS recently. Or the numerous other horn thefts and artifact thefts around the country.

Sorry, but blaming the employees only makes railroads more defensive and less likely to hire anyone with "I like trains" associated with him (or her). Another long standing thread on this board asks why railroaders dislike railfans. Certainly, these sorts of allegations are one reason.

LC

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

Joe-

Sure. Blame it on the employee.
LC

Sorry, but I wasn't blaming anyone, least of all the employees.

Joe

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Limitedclear

Joe-

Sure. Blame it on the employee.
LC

Sorry, but I wasn't blaming anyone, least of all the employees.

Joe

[starwardude]

I'm glad that I went to a railyard in New Haven ,CT with my dad and his friend ,who works there. [:D]

[starwardude]

I'm glad that I went to a railyard in New Haven ,CT with my dad and his friend ,who works there. [:D]