Darwinism & Public Safety (warning-may offened)

[Anonymous]

I have to agree that you can only go so far in legislating, and planning, to protect the stupid from their own stupidity. A safe society is a good and desirable thing, but so is common sense. Politicians and lawyers can make careers (and fortunes) out of drafting new legislation to make it even clearer and more exact (for which read more complicated and expensive) but I was simply brought up to read and respect 'NO TRESPASSING', 'DO NOT CROSS WHEN LIGHTS SHOW' and other such signs. Maybe illiteracy is the real issue but at the end of the day people who walk or drive in front of trains simply deserve to be cited for Darwin awards. To quote a writer some time ago "stupidity is the only capital offence". I'm a UK rail passenger, not a member of the rail industry, but I know rail travel is much safer than road travel and frankly wish I could travel more places by train. Unfortunately the road lobby here (and probably in the US) has far more influence that the rail industry, so as usual the rail industry loses out.

[kenneo]

Zardoz, the problem is not with you.

An ex inlaws three sons were dirving the farm truck down the road about 15 years ago. The Branch crossed this road, and the local and this band of jerks were both approaching the crossing. Lights Flashed and gates descended. Whistle blows, bells ring, headlights (fixed and occilating (read mars)) operating. Crew is watchfull.

Before I continue, I must give a bit more setting. Since the early 1970's the SP had recorded ALL COMPANY conversations - radio, train-order, phone, everything.

I am at my desk in Hillsboro, doing my Agent thing. At the crossing, is a foamer with his girlfriend, video-tapeing the train. Video camera has sound. The foamer has a scanner tuned to the SP road frequency.

All was quiet in my humble office until the road channel erupts with "G** D****, Gordon, hang on." In the back ground you can hear horns signaling emergency, bells ringing and shouting from all three crew members describing the raised middle finger salute the driver and middle passenger were giving the train and the "push-back" gesture of the right passenger who was standing up out the truck window. All of this along with an incredible amount of profanity.

The parents sued, of course. The lawyers, knowing of the practice of recording communications, moved to supress certain evidence as hear-say which was worded so as to include the tapes. They did not know about the foamer.

The railroad recovered much of the money these lawyers had been paid over time, the lawyers lost their licenses to practice. We gave this kid LOTS of cab rides.

Now, a little test - - - Who was stupid? Who was callous? Who was uncarring?

[kenneo]

Zardoz, the problem is not with you.

An ex inlaws three sons were dirving the farm truck down the road about 15 years ago. The Branch crossed this road, and the local and this band of jerks were both approaching the crossing. Lights Flashed and gates descended. Whistle blows, bells ring, headlights (fixed and occilating (read mars)) operating. Crew is watchfull.

Before I continue, I must give a bit more setting. Since the early 1970's the SP had recorded ALL COMPANY conversations - radio, train-order, phone, everything.

I am at my desk in Hillsboro, doing my Agent thing. At the crossing, is a foamer with his girlfriend, video-tapeing the train. Video camera has sound. The foamer has a scanner tuned to the SP road frequency.

All was quiet in my humble office until the road channel erupts with "G** D****, Gordon, hang on." In the back ground you can hear horns signaling emergency, bells ringing and shouting from all three crew members describing the raised middle finger salute the driver and middle passenger were giving the train and the "push-back" gesture of the right passenger who was standing up out the truck window. All of this along with an incredible amount of profanity.

The parents sued, of course. The lawyers, knowing of the practice of recording communications, moved to supress certain evidence as hear-say which was worded so as to include the tapes. They did not know about the foamer.

The railroad recovered much of the money these lawyers had been paid over time, the lawyers lost their licenses to practice. We gave this kid LOTS of cab rides.

Now, a little test - - - Who was stupid? Who was callous? Who was uncarring?

[Anonymous]

I have also been involved in collisions with trespassers. I won't say I killed anybody, because I didn't. They killed themselves, whether they realized it or not. The actions of I and my crew members were correct and everything was done correctly and according to rule. Sadly, it doesn't change the fact that they are no longer alive. Perhaps it is just my way of dealing with it, but I refuse to take responsibility for their actions over which I had no control that placed them in the path of our train.

LC

[Anonymous]

I have also been involved in collisions with trespassers. I won't say I killed anybody, because I didn't. They killed themselves, whether they realized it or not. The actions of I and my crew members were correct and everything was done correctly and according to rule. Sadly, it doesn't change the fact that they are no longer alive. Perhaps it is just my way of dealing with it, but I refuse to take responsibility for their actions over which I had no control that placed them in the path of our train.

LC

[wabash1]

Zardoz 1

I myself have killed 1 mangled 3 and not any of these was my fault or the railroad fault and like you I am getting tired of the whining . The fact is these people knew what they was doing. but they neglect to think of who they will invole in the accident. Like a drunk who hits and kills some one the response is I didnt mean to hurt someone. again never thinking ahead. This is one reason we have rail view camera on our engines so in court the railroad can show what happened and watch the prosecuters jaws drop when thier case is blown out of the water. and case is dismissed. the camera is hooked into the event recorder and has a recorder of its own. showing speed the bell, horn , throttle and anything else and has a mic on board to capture the horn sound . the only thing it wont do is take the memory from the crew .

The fact remains if you want to you can sue the estate and maybe we as railroaders should to maybe get people to start thinking of their actions before involving inocent people.

[wabash1]

Zardoz 1

I myself have killed 1 mangled 3 and not any of these was my fault or the railroad fault and like you I am getting tired of the whining . The fact is these people knew what they was doing. but they neglect to think of who they will invole in the accident. Like a drunk who hits and kills some one the response is I didnt mean to hurt someone. again never thinking ahead. This is one reason we have rail view camera on our engines so in court the railroad can show what happened and watch the prosecuters jaws drop when thier case is blown out of the water. and case is dismissed. the camera is hooked into the event recorder and has a recorder of its own. showing speed the bell, horn , throttle and anything else and has a mic on board to capture the horn sound . the only thing it wont do is take the memory from the crew .

The fact remains if you want to you can sue the estate and maybe we as railroaders should to maybe get people to start thinking of their actions before involving inocent people.

[Mookie]

Zardoz - I am on my feet applauding you!

Jen

[Mookie]

Zardoz - I am on my feet applauding you!

Jen

[zardoz]

With all this discussion about safety at crossings, protecting the innocent from the mean, old railroads, and such, i would like to say something to Missouri and the others so worried about this subject.

It seems to be the practice these days to legislate stupidity. Four-quadrant gates, multiple lights, visual clearances of hundreds of feet, etc. Is this how we protect the stupid? Whatever happened to a person being responsible for their own actions, and the consequences thereof? The government, nor any individual, can idiot-proof the world; nor should they try. If someone is so stupid to go around gates, or ignore flashing lights, or walk on railroad tracks, then they alone should be responsible for the results. If they get killed, then that is one less idiot in the gene pool to pass on his/her stupidity to the next generation. Darwin's theory will prove itself. We will rid ourselves of traits that are not conducive to survival.

And if this seems a bit cold to someone, observe how we as a culture are becoming more stupid each year. Look at liability disclaimers on products:
WARNING: HOT COFFEE. MAY CAUSE BURNS.
WARNING: PRODUCT MAY BE HOT WHEN REMOVED FROM OVEN.
WARNING: EXCESSIVE HEIGHT VEHICLE. MAY ROLL OVER.
WARNING: DO NOT TOUCH EXPOSED WIRES, ELECTROCUTION POSSIBLE.
and so on and so on. I mean, come on. How DUH is all that?

Our culture has become so lawyer-intensive that we have become incapable of thinking for ourselves; I wonder where it will end? Someone in a post mentioned loud radios and cell phones as reasons we have to protect their stupidity. I say if they are so brain-dead as to not be aware of the dangers of isolating oneself from one's environment, then let them move on to the next level. I bet when they are in an ambulance, dying from a heart-attack, they will hope the other drivers are paying attention to their surroundings, so they can get out of his way on his trip to the hospital!

During my 20 years as an Engineer, I killed 9 people. Except for 1 suicide, all were killed DUE TO THEIR OWN IGNORANCE, not in any part due to the railroad's negligence, nor the failure of any equipment (except for the brains of the deceased). Why should a train crew person be subject to the horrible feelings and thoughts that come with a fatality. I have had to crawl under my locomotive to remove mangled body parts so the state Coroner could have a complete corpse. To this day, many, many years later, I can still vividly recall my thoughts, feelings, and emotions for each and every accident. Why should I suffer because of someone else's stupidity? Whom can I sue??

So please pardon my callousness, but I am so tired of the whining of those incapable of taking responsibility for themselves, or are unable to imagine that anyone else should also be capable of it.

[zardoz]

With all this discussion about safety at crossings, protecting the innocent from the mean, old railroads, and such, i would like to say something to Missouri and the others so worried about this subject.

It seems to be the practice these days to legislate stupidity. Four-quadrant gates, multiple lights, visual clearances of hundreds of feet, etc. Is this how we protect the stupid? Whatever happened to a person being responsible for their own actions, and the consequences thereof? The government, nor any individual, can idiot-proof the world; nor should they try. If someone is so stupid to go around gates, or ignore flashing lights, or walk on railroad tracks, then they alone should be responsible for the results. If they get killed, then that is one less idiot in the gene pool to pass on his/her stupidity to the next generation. Darwin's theory will prove itself. We will rid ourselves of traits that are not conducive to survival.

And if this seems a bit cold to someone, observe how we as a culture are becoming more stupid each year. Look at liability disclaimers on products:
WARNING: HOT COFFEE. MAY CAUSE BURNS.
WARNING: PRODUCT MAY BE HOT WHEN REMOVED FROM OVEN.
WARNING: EXCESSIVE HEIGHT VEHICLE. MAY ROLL OVER.
WARNING: DO NOT TOUCH EXPOSED WIRES, ELECTROCUTION POSSIBLE.
and so on and so on. I mean, come on. How DUH is all that?

Our culture has become so lawyer-intensive that we have become incapable of thinking for ourselves; I wonder where it will end? Someone in a post mentioned loud radios and cell phones as reasons we have to protect their stupidity. I say if they are so brain-dead as to not be aware of the dangers of isolating oneself from one's environment, then let them move on to the next level. I bet when they are in an ambulance, dying from a heart-attack, they will hope the other drivers are paying attention to their surroundings, so they can get out of his way on his trip to the hospital!

During my 20 years as an Engineer, I killed 9 people. Except for 1 suicide, all were killed DUE TO THEIR OWN IGNORANCE, not in any part due to the railroad's negligence, nor the failure of any equipment (except for the brains of the deceased). Why should a train crew person be subject to the horrible feelings and thoughts that come with a fatality. I have had to crawl under my locomotive to remove mangled body parts so the state Coroner could have a complete corpse. To this day, many, many years later, I can still vividly recall my thoughts, feelings, and emotions for each and every accident. Why should I suffer because of someone else's stupidity? Whom can I sue??

So please pardon my callousness, but I am so tired of the whining of those incapable of taking responsibility for themselves, or are unable to imagine that anyone else should also be capable of it.