What will Metra do for power on UP west when the F40's wear out?

[DrummingTrainfan]

Last time I was in the Chicago area (Christmas) my aunt told me that she had seen a TV show out there saying that the MP36's can't be used on the UP west line (Chicago-Elburn) because some of the bridges near the city can't support it's weight.

My question is what is Metra going to do for power when the F40's wear out? Are they going to spend the money on another new locomotive design, or try to get the bridges strengthened for the MP36? Personally I would like to see the MP36 on the UP west since that is the main line I railfan on while I'm there.

[Anonymous]

Order New Power from someone.

[BaltACD]

Reinforce the bridges.

[Murphy Siding]

Rebuild the F40's, perhaps?

[DrummingTrainfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Rebuild the F40's, perhaps?

I was thinking of that, but that would be temporary. The F40's are going to wear out eventually.

[CShaveRR]

The UP West line isn't the problem (think about it--that's one of the busiest freight lines in the country, with stack trains and coal trains; it wouldn't have any problem with those new units!). It's the other two lines, Northwest and North, that have the bridges that couldn't take them. As these lines use power interchangably, UP wouldn't keep one set of power for the west line and another bigger fleet for the other two.

Over the past several years, some of these bridges have been replaced. There are still plenty more to go. We'd probably see more new units delivered for service on the BNSF line, with the newest F40s (the "Winnebagos") being cascaded over to UP service if necessary. Bridge replacement, however, is probably inevitable somewhere along the line--keep in mind that these older bridges are no picnic for the people traversing the streets beneath them, either.

[Anonymous]

what about F59PHI's and such???

[Anonymous]

EMD doesn't make the F59PHI's anymore. Carl the Problem is on the UP-NW/N Lines.

[espeefoamer]

They might buy P40s or P42s from GE if they can't get EMDs.

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by espeefoamer

They might buy P40s or P42s from GE if they can't get EMDs.

[banghead] Metra looked at the GE P42 (et al) units back a few years and as I recall even borrowed a few Amtrak units for a few days of tests and found they did not have the accelleration to be suitable in keeping the grueling commuter schedules. When I ride on Metra occassionally I will sometines pass the time keeping score as to how good they are on the BNSF line in keeping to their schedules and believe me, they are REALLY, REALLY GOOD as they are seldom more than one minute over or under schedule and usually RIGHT ON THE MONEY. The old saying "you can set your watch by those trains" really holds true on the Metra BNSF line out to Aurora.

[trainboyH16-44]

Didn't GE stop making P42s? And even if they still made them, the EPA laws wouldn't allow it, right?

[CShaveRR]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

EMD doesn't make the F59PHI's anymore. Carl the Problem is on the UP-NW/N Lines.

Yep...that's what I said!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

EMD doesn't make the F59PHI's anymore. Carl the Problem is on the UP-NW/N Lines.

Yep...that's what I said!

Carl,
Sorry didn't the see the part. GE isn't allowed to make P42's because of the EPA laws.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by the feed

what about F59PHI's and such???

No way classic F-40's will do!

Metra's F-40s just came out of overhaule (or so i hear). They will last another 10 years from now. And where did you hear that the new locos where too heavy? If those brides can carry fully loaded frieghts the can sure hold the loco!

[DrummingTrainfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by THE_WEEZ

QUOTE: Originally posted by the feed

what about F59PHI's and such???

No way classic F-40's will do!

Metra's F-40s just came out of overhaule (or so i hear). They will last another 10 years from now. And where did you hear that the new locos where too heavy? If those brides can carry fully loaded frieghts the can sure hold the loco!

Yea, the F40 will last for 10 more years, but what about after that? They won't last forever...

I think it's more an issue of density than actual weight. A couple freight cars may weigh the same as the locomotive, but distribute it over a larger area.

[Junctionfan]

How about some old GPs and rebuild them to suit commuter service? Ton of them lying about-GP38s or GP40s?

[DrummingTrainfan]

If the F40's were about to just die on the tracks, using the Geeps might make sense, but I don't think that many of them (the GP's) will be around in 10 years. I also doubt that Metra would replace old power with older power[:o)][:I]

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

QUOTE: Originally posted by THE_WEEZ

QUOTE: Originally posted by the feed

what about F59PHI's and such???

No way classic F-40's will do!

Metra's F-40s just came out of overhaule (or so i hear). They will last another 10 years from now. And where did you hear that the new locos where too heavy? If those brides can carry fully loaded frieghts the can sure hold the loco!

Light bridges are indeed the issue, and this issue goes back to steam days. Keep in mind that the North Line is virtually passenger-only and has been that way for decades, freight moves on the New Line. Any through freight on the Northwest Line picks up the Northwest Line at Deval, which avoids the lighter bridges.

As mentioned above, Metra can buy time by re-equipping other lines first and re-assign the newer F40's to the UP lines, but the bridges (mostly in Chicago) will need to be rebuilt.

[Ham549]

Gut the F40's and put new stuff in them.

[carnej1]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

EMD doesn't make the F59PHI's anymore. Carl the Problem is on the UP-NW/N Lines.

Yep...that's what I said!

Carl,
Sorry didn't the see the part. GE isn't allowed to make P42's because of the EPA laws.

IIRC, the P42 was removed from the GE catalog prior to the Tier IIcompliance issues due to the fact that the cab didn't meet new crashworthiness standards. GE is designing an EVOLUTION series passenger unit with updated safety features and there is a conceptual drawing online. This is a four axle unit with a monocoque body like the Genesis, but the nose looks different.

[Chris30]

The MP36 is restricted from operating on all three UP (ex-CNW) lines due to engines weight and bridge weight limits. The opinion has been expressed on this thread that the UP West Line is not the issue because heavy freight trains use this line every day. Almost all freight trains operating east of Proviso Yard diverge to the Rockwell Sub (Global I, CSX, etc.) at Kedzie and the issue is with the bridges east of Kedzie that have not been upgraded/reinforced.

I know that there was a bridge replacement project on the UP NW Line a few years ago. Is it possible that some of the bridges on the UP (ex-CNW) are approaching 95 years (1911) without any replacement? And I wonder what the life expectancy of those bridges are?

It will be interesting to see what type of motive power replaces the F40 in the future because the F40 has been the exclusive power on the ex-CNW lines for @20 years now and operating for Metra for close to 30 years.

CC

[DrummingTrainfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by carnej1

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

EMD doesn't make the F59PHI's anymore. Carl the Problem is on the UP-NW/N Lines.

Yep...that's what I said!

Carl,
Sorry didn't the see the part. GE isn't allowed to make P42's because of the EPA laws.

IIRC, the P42 was removed from the GE catalog prior to the Tier IIcompliance issues due to the fact that the cab didn't meet new crashworthiness standards. GE is designing an EVOLUTION series passenger unit with updated safety features and there is a conceptual drawing online. This is a four axle unit with a monocoque body like the Genesis, but the nose looks different.

Where did you find these drawings of the new passenger locos? [:p]

[samfp1943]

ONe thing about it, the older units will continue to get older and I suspect the rebuilders can only breath so much new like back in to those old commuter power units, and as was mentioned without a lot of money on infra structure, the new engines being built are too heavy and probably too,too much for even consideration, they may wind up going overseas for passenger power, NJ Transit and AMTRAK'S ALP's of a few years back.. passenger diesels are a small specialized market and like [sea]ports, American companies are getting out of that market.

[daveklepper]

My own guess is that if EMD (which may address smaller markets now that it is independent) or GE (which does have a corporate commitment to aid public transit in general) don't address the market, either of these builders might supply components to Motive Power or a similar more-specialty builder. For many of the commuter operations an elongated switcher with higher-speed gearing and a seperate head-end power diesel and alternator would fill the bill exactly and would not require not require heavy-duty track or bridges. Maybe a gen-set locomtive would we applicable.

[zkr123]

I think Metra should take a look at the EMD's F125. 

[NorthWest]

The problem is money, as I understand it. Metra would not rebuild their F40PHs eternally if they didn't have to, but they lack the funding to purchase new units, and don't really need a 125MPH capable unit anyway. If they need extra power, I think more of the ex-GO F59PHs are most likely.

[mudchicken]

(1)Most first generation and early second generation power is inadequately shielded (no matter the claims to the contrary) for just about any PTC equipment. The issue may become moot if METRA can't shame the feds into paying for commuter PTC. (kinda ironic in the unfunded mandate department)

(2) Getting those E-50 thru E-65 bridges up to snuf (E-80) ain't gonna be cheap and competes with all the whining from those using the service expecting a more cushy ride and more frequent service (as long as it's $pending OPM)...AAR/TTC is looking at ways to beef-up and extend the life of decaying older bridges that are less expensive and do not require total disassembly and rehab of the bridges...(ie-repair under service)

[Wizlish]

carnej1

IIRC, the P42 was removed from the GE catalog prior to the Tier IIcompliance issues due to the fact that the cab didn't meet new crashworthiness standards. GE is designing an EVOLUTION series passenger unit with updated safety features and there is a conceptual drawing online. This is a four axle unit with a monocoque body like the Genesis, but the nose looks different.

I take it this is a different design from the HSP46 family which has been out for several years now..  Where are the drawings?

[Andrew Falconer]

Does anybody at Union Pacific remember the bridge collapse in Illinois?

The Union Pacific management and employees have to replace all the old and weak bridges.

[CShaveRR]

Andrew Falconer

Does anybody at Union Pacific remember the bridge collapse in Illinois?

You mean the bridge that self-destructed on top of an automobile one 100-degree Fourth of July a few years back, due to heat kinks in the rails because of the difference in ballast between terra firma and an open-deck bridge, which UP had wanted to replace but the cities involved wouldn't let them?  Is that the one?

Andrew Falconer

The Union Pacific management and employees have to replace all the old and weak bridges.

In that case, UP management and employees really should have left it as a fill...

I haven't been on any inspection trips to check out the bridge-rebuilding programs that have taken place on the Northwest Line and are currently taking place on the North Line, but you would be hard-pressed to find any inadequate bridges anywhere on the West Line any more.