Beer Unit Trains?

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wrwatkins

A couple of questions.
A bigger and more important question is why does NS run the beer train through the rathole south then east then up the Shenandoah valley? Would it not be shorter to run on NS old N&W main line through West Virginia and save a few miles? I do not think double stacking tank cars is done too often so clearance would not be a problem.

Might be shorter, but it's not cheaper or faster. Traffic routes by lowest impedence on NS (think fewer handlings, lower cost yards) and train service is set up for optimized network flow, not "best" route for each individual car.

[Anonymous]

A couple of questions. For Tree68 what happened to Olympia beer? I remember it from my college days (late'50s) and it was a pretty good brew.
A bigger and more important question is why does NS run the beer train through the rathole south then east then up the Shenandoah valley? Would it not be shorter to run on NS old N&W main line through West Virginia and save a few miles? I do not think double stacking tank cars is done too often so clearance would not be a problem.

[domefoamer]

Thank goodness for the Coors beer train! No, I never touch the stuff, but this is the only train I can hear from my home in the western suburbs of Denver. I moved out of a part of the the downtown area, which rings with railroad noises, most notably when they start a mile-long coal train and I'd hear the slack slapping out, echoing off the high-rise towers like rolling thunder. The beer train, by contrast, is a meek little thing, never pulling more than a few dozen cars or moving more than a few dozen mph. And tying up traffic on major roads several times a day, but never very long. It seems to take about five minutes for it to mosey past my earshot, blowing its horn in melodious fashion.

[Anonymous]

BNSF's Coors train used to be a pretty hot commodity. The Coors tank cars and box cars would come into Kansas City for the NS from the east and from a H MEMKCK train from Memphis to Kansas City KS on the BNSF line. BNSF would put all the beer together from the 2 trains and put UPS piggy backs on the train and run a Z KCMDEN9 from Kansas City to Denver. But BNSF has quit hauling the UPS piggs to Denver and now just runs alot of beer with some mixed other freight now the train is a H KCMDEN9. Even though it is only a H-train is still keeps the number 9 at the end which still means it is some what HOT commodity.

[BigJim]

Mudchicken,
The beer tanks from Golden wind up here in the Shenandoah Valley near Elkton, Va. never getting even close to Richmond.

The beer stout is loaded COLD into tank cars that are insulated so well that they will not lose less than a degree of tempurature per day. They are shipped in various size blocks of cars. I've seen as many as fifty one, but this includes DF box cars too. The blocks of cars arrive in a time freight which will set the cars off online.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

Chad -- exactly what's still run in eastern Canada

Jamie, Where does it run from / too? I haven't heard of that before.

http://www.ultramar.ca/Refinery/TransportationOfProducts/
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=133704&showcomments=true&PHPSESSID=85a62665271fe7a95603aef2a618f5a1

Regarding the crude oil trains out here. Didn't the BKDOU load at Saco (on the Fresno Line, just north of Oil Junction)? Also, while the WUDOU does unload at the same refinery (ConocoPhillips, formerly Tosco, formerly Unocal, formerly Shell), the oil goes via pipeline to the ExxonMobil refinery from the unloading point.

Thanks for the additional info Eric.
I thought they loaded on the Oil City branch but I'm not that familiar with that area.

[Chris_S68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tulyar15

In Ireland a lot of Guiness is moved by rail in containers which contain several kegs. At off loading points arounded the country the kegs are then delivered to the pubs. In the Irish Republic Guiness have over 80% of the beer market.

They used also to have a brewery in London which was the last brewery here to be rail served but it's now closed. It would dispatch a couple of wagons loads (again containing kegs) to Scotland.

Many years ago the Guiness plant in Dublin had its own internal narrow gauge locos. These could also be mounted onto special broad gauge converter cars so they could haul broad gauge wagons to the exchange sidings with Irish Rail too. I think at least 3 of these locos and their converter cars survive but the only one in working order is at the Amberley Chalk Pits museum in Sussex near Arundel. This place is well worth a visit as it contains railroad related exhibits in 4 gauges and a lot of other industrial exhibits. For James Bond fans its the location of the mine in "A View to a Kill".

A train full of Guinness... mmmmm...

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

Chad -- exactly what's still run in eastern Canada

Jamie, Where does it run from / too? I haven't heard of that before.

http://www.ultramar.ca/Refinery/TransportationOfProducts/
http://railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=133704&showcomments=true&PHPSESSID=85a62665271fe7a95603aef2a618f5a1

Regarding the crude oil trains out here. Didn't the BKDOU load at Saco (on the Fresno Line, just north of Oil Junction)? Also, while the WUDOU does unload at the same refinery (ConocoPhillips, formerly Tosco, formerly Unocal, formerly Shell), the oil goes via pipeline to the ExxonMobil refinery from the unloading point.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jchnhtfd

Chad -- exactly what's still run in eastern Canada

Jamie, Where does it run from / too? I haven't heard of that before.

[MStLfan]

Another very short unit train ran in the Netherlands. In the western harbors of Amsterdam there is a cocoabean terminal. Up to about 10 years ago they shipped about 5 cars a day or week (I'm not sure which) to a processor located maybe 30 km away in Bussum, the siding is still there but the traffic succumbed finally to trucks.
Marc Immeker

[Tulyar15]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Is scrap iron ever run in unit trains? I realize that it's not a high-priority, get it there yesterday type of commodity. It would seem to me, that a big shipment from one place to another place without intermediate switching would be the economical way to ship scrap iron?

I think I mentioned on the Briti***hred a while back that one of the shortest freight flows here is scrap steel from Queenborough Scrapyard on the Isle of Sheppey in the Thames Estuary, to Sheerness Steelworks, also on the Isle of Sheppey - a distance of less than 10 miles. Both plants are served by the branch line which connects the island to the mainland. As the steelworks at Sheerness can only process scrap steel extra scrap is brought in from the main land.

Meanwhile in the West Midlands, about the only freight train thru Birmingham's re-opened Snow Hill station is a scrap train which collects cars of scrap at scrapyards on either side of the city. Before the line thru Snow Hill station was re-opened in 1996 this train had to a make a trip of about 30 miles to serve 2 yards that are only 5 miles apart as the crows flies (and with the re-opening are now only that distance apart by rail!).

[Anonymous]

Technically a lot of beer "moves" in unit trains. Both Coors and Miller ship beer via intermodal. Although its not a full intermodal train of beer, the loads of beer still do move in a unit train w/ other intermodal loads. Coors uses intermodal from Golden to Virginia. One of the funkiest beer moves I've seen is an annual thing for Miller from their Fort Worth brewery to Milwaukee - yes - to Milwaukee - the home of beer. Reason being, Fort Worth produces plastic bottled beer. Miller at Milwaukee does not. Every summer there is a huge music festival at Milwaukee called Summer Fest (I love the clever name) and Miller is a big sponsor and a big supplier of beer - in plastic bottles for safety sake - brewed in Fort Worth, instead of 2 miles away at the Milwaukee plant.

Two tricks with beer in intermodal - its heavy so you can't fill up a 53' trailer - only about 32' of beer maxes out your weight, so you've got to block and brace the pallets so they don't dump all over when lifted onto the train or during trucking. Also - as you'd expect, given the relatively low % alcohol, beer also does freeze. A moving truck or train provides enough "jiggle factor" that you can transport it at below freezing temps, so long as you keep it moving. If you stop for very long - BEER-CICLES. ... and those haven't caught on just yet - so you get to buy the load.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Is scrap iron ever run in unit trains? I realize that it's not a high-priority, get it there yesterday type of commodity. It would seem to me, that a big shipment from one place to another place without intermediate switching would be the economical way to ship scrap iron?

I've seen loads of scrap being hauled around The US Steel Edgar Thompson Works in Pittsburgh on CSX and the Union railroad. Another time over near Homestead I saw a Conrail train hauling a string of gondolas with scrap metal.

[Murphy Siding]

Is scrap iron ever run in unit trains? I realize that it's not a high-priority, get it there yesterday type of commodity. It would seem to me, that a big shipment from one place to another place without intermediate switching would be the economical way to ship scrap iron?

[jchnhtfd]

Chad -- exactly what's still run in eastern Canada

[chad thomas]

Brian, one of my favorite trains was the BKDOU unit oil trains. Known as "The Cans" they went from the oil city branch near Bakersfield to the refinery in the LA basin (Carson I think). It stopped running over Tehachapi when they built a pipeline in the late 90's. Now there is another tanktrain that delivers to the same refinery but now loads up the coast at Wunpost. These trains have sets of 8 cars simi-permanantly attached with a big hose connecting the eight car sets. Here are a couple pix.

This is the empties approaching Woodford sideing just below Tehachappi loop.


The cans were a regular on the Sagus line, but dureing Metrolinks realignment project on that line the cans were rerouted through Cajon. This is another empty almost to Highland sideing at the top of Cajon.

[bluepuma]

QUOTE: Originally posted by blhanel

Big pink rocks?[%-)]

I'm an engineer, too- only I deal with strings of ones and zeros.
From my viewpoint, there are 10 kinds of people- those who understand binary, and those who don't.

Yep, two kinds, 0000 0010 or in Hex 02 - Had to laugh!

Reminds me of the first time I saw a Chinese Fortune Cookie with a string of
double numbers running across the bottom, and it was like

34 49 15 46 37 25

And I wondered if they ware Hex or Decimal, then my friend said they were lucky lotto numbers! :)

The beer train article was good, I drink a few Coors or Keystone Ice cases or 12 packs in the course of a month, and I like the low foam, and sweet taste compared to the beer or Ice beers from Bud or Miller. Was real fond of Rainer Ale and there are some good but expensive beers, outside the usualy $5.99 or less per 12 pack. I think the low foam/head might be altitude, so wonder how the other product differs from what I see or get here in North Central Illinois.
Could drink it faster after opening with less waiting for head to fall.

N Scale supply in Denver had Beer Train pictures on their site a few times when I first started modeling after 2000.

My last visit to Golden, Co, we went to a Micro Brewery for lunch and another downtown.

Sad deal for beer, Miller, A/Busch, Coors, General Brewing has most of the rest.

[jchnhtfd]

Hic!

One of the more spectacular true unit train operations (train is basically never uncoupled) involves the unit tank car trains (there are a number in eastern Canada) which use a long -- 30 to 50 car -- string of tank cars which are not only coupled with the usual air and couplers, but with pipes, making it possible to fill or empty the entire string from one point. Interesting operation.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Norfolk Southern Railfan

Those CORX beer cars in TRAINS Magazine come right through here on the NS main line.

En route to-from to the Molson/Coors brewery in Richmond, VA. after BNSF hands them over at KC....

[Anonymous]

Those CORX beer cars in TRAINS Magazine come right through here on the NS main line.

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

QUOTE: Originally posted by blhanel

Big pink rocks?[%-)]

Coors is kind of unique in that they've made their brand reputation based on brewing with "Pure Rocky Mountain Spring Water." So they're stuck brewing with that water in Colorado.

Olympia Beer (now departed) had as a slogan "It's the Water, and a lot more." One of their ads featured a Tumwater, WA firetruck with the slogan on the back bumper...

[mudchicken]

The closest that Coors gets to a unit train are the locals between Denver/Globeville and Golden. Beyond Denver, everything scatters. Been around the wort CORX cars far too often. And then there is what happens to the waste product coming out of the breweries at Golden & Ft. Collins that leaves by pipeline (Ft. Collins) or by Tank Car to KS. (Golden).....When that stuff gets warm in the sun, the bakery smell gives way to ....whew!

[rrnut282]

I heard a rumor that one of the Triple Crown trains east out of St Louis was a beer run. TC will niether confirm nor deny this rumor, but I'll bet there were a lot of railroaders secretly hoping for a minor derailment.[}:)][;)]

[Randy Stahl]

Good fortune to be onsite for that derailment indeed !!!! Naturally the cars got to be emptied before you rerail them !!! Ah yes , the things dreams are made of ! Beer , beer slurry .. what ever ! ( actually beer slurry sounds like a short trip to a good time ) hmmm

[CopCarSS]

QUOTE: Originally posted by greyhounds

QUOTE: Originally posted by blhanel

Big pink rocks?[%-)]

Sometimes, it's just best not to ask. I don't think we need to know about the Big Pink Rocks. For God's Sake Man, leave it alone!

Anyway, I've never heard of beer unit trains. Coors is kind of unique in that they've made their brand reputation based on brewing with "Pure Rocky Mountain Spring Water." So they're stuck brewing with that water in Colorado.

This means they have to ship water (beer is basically water) from Colorado to Virginia in tank cars.

Other brewers built brewerys close to their markets. They have to ship the grain and such in, but they're not paying to move water 2/3 of the way across the USA as Coors is.

I wonder just who came up with the idea of hanging the Coors hat on the peg that is now a curse, the use of that "Rocky Mountain Water".

But, as many of us know - there may be no beer unit trains, but there are Orange Juice unit trains. Unlike beer, which can be brewed about anywhere, OJ needs to come from warm climates where orange trees can thrive. Such a place is Bradenton, FL which originates unit trains of OJ for the New York City area.

Technically it's not Rocky Mountain Spring Water anymore. Coors capped off the springs awhile ago, and Anheuser Busch sued that they can't label it "Spring" water if it doesn't "spring" to the surface.

As far as I know, there isn't a beer unit train. After the train comes in from Golden, I think most of it gets added to the DENKCK (if I'm remembering correctly). The glass lined tankers are the easiest way to spot stuff from Coors. They're white with spilled wort on top of them, and they carry CORX reporting marks.

Unfortunately, I haven't gotten this month's Trains yet, so I haven't had a chance to read the article. Hopefully the USPS will be able to deliver it sometime soon!

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by blhanel

Big pink rocks?[%-)]

The LG Everest quarry in Dell Rapids, SD has a huge pit that quarries pink Sioux Quartzite. Nearly every day, a mile long train of ot heads south to Sioux City, Iowa. (Up until a few years ago, the line went through the parking lot where I work.) The rocks are anywhere from football sized to dining room table sized. The Dakota & Iowa railroad runs the train.

[oltmannd]

Coors does indeed ship beer slurry in tank cars to Virginia for finishing. It moves over BNSF to KC then NS to the Shenendoah Valley. They use local water there to fini***he slurry into beer for distribution in the east.

It doesn't move in unit trains, but in a good sized block in regular freight service.

Here's a picture from some years back

http://www.nscorp.com/nscorp/application?pageid=Legacy&page=http%3A//www.nscorp.com/nscorphtml/calendar/calendar97/

[amtrakjackson]

You'll still see beer handled in those distinctive PC&F boxcars on various trains across the country, particularly to and from major metropolitan areas. CSX seems to have more of this traffic than NS out East, for some reason.

[mackb4]

The Southern railroad used to ship alot of beer in boxcars.I can remember when I hired in 1991 on the NS that we used to ship tank cars full of Coors beer.I had the 142 out of Portsmouth Ohio yesterday that had a couple of tank cars for Miller Brewery in N.C.