-Tim
Originally posted by THayman [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply CSSHEGEWISCH Member sinceMarch 2016 From: Burbank IL (near Clearing) 13,540 posts Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Thursday, March 2, 2006 7:51 AM While intermodal is becoming more dominant and dedicated intermodal trains are more common, including intermodal cars in mixed freight does still occur. A lot depends on the operating practices of the railroad and the priority level of the intermodal loads. The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul Reply dldance Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Near Promentory UT 1,590 posts Posted by dldance on Thursday, March 2, 2006 8:39 AM One way this happens is if an intermodal car is set out enroute with problems. Field repairs are made and then the next mixed freight will pick it up and take it to the next intermodal yard. That prevents having to stop hi-priority intermodal trains for switching duties. Sometimes you will see a 5 well double stack on the end of a manifest as a result. dd Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Thursday, March 2, 2006 9:46 AM Yes. Regular frt trains are known to carry a block of intermodal traffic when volumes don't justify a solid train. It's not very common, but it is part of the plan, in certain places. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,012 posts Posted by tree68 on Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:01 AM I've seen it several times, and there are no pure intermodal trains running in my area. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:26 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by THayman Are intremodel cars ever found in mixed trains of other car types? I've never seen anything but a "pure" intermodel trains. I write this more from a modeler's perspective, as building full intermodel trains is rather expensive. I see it quite often on NS's former Wabash " auto artery", especially in context with backhauling empty auto racks with new inbound containers. Makes sense when you think about imported component parts AND empty racks for the finished goods both headed towards Detroit. I've seen some long trains made up that way.. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 2, 2006 11:53 AM Here in Calgary, Canadian Pacific runs mostly pure intermodel trains but on occasion they stick several auto carriers at the beginning or end. Canadian National has mixed trains between here & Saskatoon as frieght volume isn't that great between these two cities. Reply Edit JoeKoh Member sinceApril 2003 From: Defiance Ohio 13,312 posts Posted by JoeKoh on Thursday, March 2, 2006 2:56 PM yea like mentioned before on csx ive seen intermodal with empty racks or set out because the set of cars had to be repaired. stay safe joe Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener"). Reply rrandb Member sinceDecember 2001 From: K.C.,MO. 1,063 posts Posted by rrandb on Thursday, March 2, 2006 3:01 PM Almost everyday in Independence, MO. KCS goes by with a mixed freight that has intermodal and TOFC at the rear either coming or going to St. Loius. As always ENJOY. Reply PBenham Member sinceJuly 2005 From: In the New York Soviet Socialist Republic! 1,391 posts Posted by PBenham on Thursday, March 2, 2006 4:18 PM There was a time when the late, great Atchison, Topeka & Santa Fe ran intermodal traffic and other higher priority traffic in trains based upon destination and the time the trailer/container,or carload, was made available for movement rather than seperate boxcar,High Cube,auto rack and intermodal trains. This strategy worked until the international container revolution changed things. Now it is practical, indeed sensible, to run a solid intermodal from a port of entry to the container's destination, or a "hub"terminal for unloading or transfer. But BNSF still follows the old Santa Fe plan for all other traffic moving from on or off line points to other points,on or off line. CN is a relatively recent "convert" to this plan of operation, too. I can say from personal observation that CN and BNSF are setting the rail service bar higher than, say,CSX is. Their service?[xx(] Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, March 2, 2006 4:27 PM CN runs mixed in Wisconsin. Reply Edit THayman Member sinceNovember 2003 From: Halifax, NS 405 posts Posted by THayman on Friday, March 3, 2006 7:04 AM All I normally see is CN between Toronto and Montreal, and, what with it being a high volume area, pretty much all intermodel cars are found in solid intermodel trains, as these are justified. I had a vague recolection of seeing cars mid-train, but I was starting to think I was imagining things. Thanks to all. -Tim Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Friday, March 3, 2006 7:15 AM Here come da grump ............ mixed trains are combined freight and passenger service. I am unaware of any still in service, but even into the 1970's, they were somewhat common on branch lines. Your "mixed" freight trains are correctly called manifest trains. Solid trains of one service type (coal or intermodal ect) are unit trains. A pure unit train goes from a single customer at a single origin to a single customer at a single destination, but a solid TOFC train from one origin to one destination can also be considered a unit train. A train of empties, operating as a solid train, where the train is moving the empties to a distant loading area or region is a mug. Can also be called an empty drag. A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. Having said the above, we all knew what you ment, but being from the very old school, I do get confused by the "so-called misuse" of terms. I will now crawl back under my rock. Eric Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 3, 2006 8:46 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. I thought a drag freight was a long slow manifest. And I second the proposal to reclassify the term "mixed" from a combined freight/passenger operation to a combined unit/unit or unit/manifest operation, since there are no combined freight and passenger operations, and probably never again will be unless the concept of private passenger operators comes to fruition (wherein the private passenger operators add revenue freight handling to buttress the revenue side). But there are examples of manifests that include solid blocks of grain cars that all originated in one locale and will terminate at a single destination. BTW, were Amtrak's express trains ever refered to as "mixed"? Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, March 3, 2006 9:04 PM Most intermodal trains I've ever seen are pure unit trains. Although occasionally I've seen a few with empty auto racks tacked on the end. Thanks, Eric for clearing up the term manifest for me. Reply Edit doghouse Member sinceMay 2005 From: Where it's cold. 555 posts Posted by doghouse on Friday, March 3, 2006 10:26 PM Mr. "kenneo." There are far better places for you to be than under rocks. Like teaching the "yungins" a thing or two about railroading. Reply beaulieu Member sinceDecember 2001 From: NW Wisconsin 3,857 posts Posted by beaulieu on Friday, March 3, 2006 10:38 PM Stacks and racks get mixed in the Minnesota - Wisconsin area all the time. CP# 199 always has a block of racks unless there are enough cars to run in two sections, then one will be all stacks and the other racks. CP #198 will have other cars on the train in addition to the Intermodal. Back before CP did away with the TOFC, #291 always had a block of trailers for Winnipeg behind the manifest traffic. BNSF Z-CHCLAU has both manifest and Intermodal traffic for Laurel, MT when it passes through the Twin Cities. Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:30 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. I thought a drag freight was a long slow manifest. And I second the proposal to reclassify the term "mixed" from a combined freight/passenger operation to a combined unit/unit or unit/manifest operation, since there are no combined freight and passenger operations, and probably never again will be unless the concept of private passenger operators comes to fruition (wherein the private passenger operators add revenue freight handling to buttress the revenue side). But there are examples of manifests that include solid blocks of grain cars that all originated in one locale and will terminate at a single destination. BTW, were Amtrak's express trains ever refered to as "mixed"? Amtrak did not call them "mixed trains" since this would have been a bald faced violation of the AMTK charter. This is one of the major problems between the UP and AMTK. The UP considers "mail and express" to be freight and not permitted on passenger trains, but rather in truck trailers riding on UP pig cars. Problem is, the truck trailers go down the highway, not the railway. This clause was part of the effort to kill the passenger train in 1971 under AMTK by depriving it of as much revenue as possible. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:42 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by dirtyd79 Most intermodal trains I've ever seen are pure unit trains. Although occasionally I've seen a few with empty auto racks tacked on the end. Thanks, Eric for clearing up the term manifest for me. Intermodal trains, from their very beginning, were considered to consist of "trailers-on-flat-car", "containers-on-flat-car" and completed automobile transport cars (i.e. auto racks) -- whether they be empty or loaded. A "bare-table" move simply to re-position the equipment is simply that, a mug, and not an intermodal movement. But where empties are included with loads, they are still considered TOFC. Auto parts trains seem to be in a confused class - depending on how and who you talk to they can be either intermodal (when operating with auto racks) or manifest traffic when operating otherwise. And then, some class it as intermodal no matter what. At any rate, it usually is operated as an intermodal train from the service standpoint unless they are "loose car" moves. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:47 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. I thought a drag freight was a long slow manifest. That is another way to define it. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:52 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. And I second the proposal to reclassify the term "mixed" from a combined freight/passenger operation to a combined unit/unit or unit/manifest operation How about "combined service", because the freight-passenger "mixed" train still exists. This would apply to such combinations as a pig and manifest, for example. Eric Reply kenneo Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Upper Left Coast 1,796 posts Posted by kenneo on Saturday, March 4, 2006 2:57 AM QUOTE: Originally posted by doghouse Mr. "kenneo." There are far better places for you to be than under rocks. Like teaching the "yungins" a thing or two about railroading. Thank you. [:I] So you want to "be taught a thing or two"? Be carefull, you just may get what you ask for! [}:)] My name is Eric (see the "signature"). Eric Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 4, 2006 12:46 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. And I second the proposal to reclassify the term "mixed" from a combined freight/passenger operation to a combined unit/unit or unit/manifest operation How about "combined service", because the freight-passenger "mixed" train still exists. This would apply to such combinations as a pig and manifest, for example. But now you've doubled the number of syllables![|(] Reply Edit Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
QUOTE: Originally posted by THayman Are intremodel cars ever found in mixed trains of other car types? I've never seen anything but a "pure" intermodel trains. I write this more from a modeler's perspective, as building full intermodel trains is rather expensive.
Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. I thought a drag freight was a long slow manifest. And I second the proposal to reclassify the term "mixed" from a combined freight/passenger operation to a combined unit/unit or unit/manifest operation, since there are no combined freight and passenger operations, and probably never again will be unless the concept of private passenger operators comes to fruition (wherein the private passenger operators add revenue freight handling to buttress the revenue side). But there are examples of manifests that include solid blocks of grain cars that all originated in one locale and will terminate at a single destination. BTW, were Amtrak's express trains ever refered to as "mixed"?
QUOTE: Originally posted by dirtyd79 Most intermodal trains I've ever seen are pure unit trains. Although occasionally I've seen a few with empty auto racks tacked on the end. Thanks, Eric for clearing up the term manifest for me.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. I thought a drag freight was a long slow manifest.
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. And I second the proposal to reclassify the term "mixed" from a combined freight/passenger operation to a combined unit/unit or unit/manifest operation
QUOTE: Originally posted by doghouse Mr. "kenneo." There are far better places for you to be than under rocks. Like teaching the "yungins" a thing or two about railroading.
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal QUOTE: Originally posted by kenneo A drag is a mug with a few manifest blocks thrown in. And I second the proposal to reclassify the term "mixed" from a combined freight/passenger operation to a combined unit/unit or unit/manifest operation How about "combined service", because the freight-passenger "mixed" train still exists. This would apply to such combinations as a pig and manifest, for example.
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