Citation for Trespass in Baltimore, MD

[Laurence_18]

I received a criminal citation and court summons for being on the platform taking pictures in Baltimore (AKA Trespass)!!! Amtrak police gone wild!

Anyone know a good lawyer (seriously)?

Is there a suggested defense? Warning to others..don't go there!

[Anonymous]

shame on you. private property+unwanted guest=trespass ticket. run the course and don't do it again. you must've done something to warrant the ticket.

[miniwyo]

You are lucky you only got a citation. Depending on the state laws there The officer may have been able to arrest you for Criminal Trespass.

[Anonymous]

If you want to take pictures of trains, do what I do, just go out to the middle of no where back in the woods somewhere and take pictures. Around here, I have a favorite spot I go to that I know really well where you can go and there's nobody around to bother you; all that I hear is trees blowing and birds chirping and the distant sound of an NS or Conrail locomotive coming my way. Stay away from heavily populated areas such as Amtrak platforms at big yards and you'll probably be fine

[karldotcom]

Do you need a ticket to be on the platform or something? I would go to court take my chances with the judge.

[Anonymous]

I was raised there in Baltimore and you aint gonna see me railfanning anywhere near them stations. There are places where there are nothing but crickets hollering to catch a train or two with a camera.

I say find a lawyer, not those tv types neither. My guess is where the precise spot you were standing when you got the ticket will decide if it was public property or private. (And why you were there as well) that will probably settle this one way or the other.

Good luck.

[K. P. Harrier]

Was any sign posted anywhere advising non-passengers not to be there?

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

You are lucky you only got a citation. Depending on the state laws there The officer may have been able to arrest you for Criminal Trespass.

He WAS arrested for Criminal Trespass, a citation is an arrest; he was released on a signature bond instead of being hauled to jail and required to post a cash bond. If he doesn't show in court then a bench warrant will be issued for his arrest and he will be hauled to jail.

[88gta350]

A passenger platform, while private property, is open for use by the public. The public is invited in. Unless there was a sign stating non-ticket holders not to be there, or something to that effect, you should have a very good case. If the charge is truly tresspassing and not loitering or something slightly different, you should be okay. Were you asked to leave before you were cited? That can make a big difference too.

[AntonioFP45]

Laurence,

Can you tell us "exactly" what happened?

I know that sometimes security and police officers can be a bit "on edge" but they usually ask questions first or at least utter a "verbal warning" to either cease and desist or to move on.

If a person "challenges" an officer and that officer is in a "no nonsense" mood, then things can get nasty. I agree very much about rights on public property, but at the same time if a person starts arguing with a law enforcement officer about Constituional rights instead of walking away, he may wind up losing.

I hope you win your case.

Common Sense: If terrorists wanted to strike trains, that last thing these cowards would do is take photos from a station platform.

[miniwyo]

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

You are lucky you only got a citation. Depending on the state laws there The officer may have been able to arrest you for Criminal Trespass.

He WAS arrested for Criminal Trespass, a citation is an arrest; he was released on a signature bond instead of being hauled to jail and required to post a cash bond. If he doesn't show in court then a bench warrant will be issued for his arrest and he will be hauled to jail.

You are right a citation is a document that is charging him with Criminal Trespass. I guess what I was trying to say is that he could have been taken into custody for it if the officer had felt that Laurence's action warranted it.
I just merely said arrest because most people think that a citation and an arrest are different things, a Citation being a thing that makes you pay a fine, and an arrest making you go to jail. However the fine that you pay for the ticket is basically paying the bond to keep the bench warrant from passing. You wouldnt hapen to be in law enforcement would you Richardy?

[David_Telesha]

Here's your defense.

Straight from Amtrak. They do this every year. Last year I printed a copy and when a conductor confronted me, I showed him the paper and he apologized and left me alone.

LINK:

http://tinyurl.com/jmt64

QUOTE: Instead, stay in public access areas, such as stations, sidewalks or parking lots.

END OF DISCUSSION.

[TheStationmaster]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha

Here's your defense.

Straight from Amtrak. They do this every year. Last year I printed a copy and when a conductor confronted me, I showed him the paper and he apologized and left me alone.

Also at the same link:
"Some stations served by Amtrak trains require advance permission for photography"

If this station is among those, it may depend on whether there were any signs posted.

I think this whole business of restricting photography for security reasons is not only unnecessary, but actually encourages terrorism and vandalism. The last thing criminals would want is to be caught on camera.

[tatans]

Hmmmmm. Let me think now, doesn't this sound a lot like what happened to me in 1965 at a train station, only the police carried AK-47's and we spent 6 hours at the police station, OH YEAH, this was in EAST GERMANY ! ! (they also took the film from my camera and confiscated $7.50 in Canadian money. I'm still trying to get it back. Do I see a trend here?

[Laurence_18]

Thanks for all the help.

The calendar contest information is helpful, but contradictory.

For the record, the station did have a "Passengers Only" sign on the stairway to the platform.

I was very polite with the officer and fully expected him to say, "go ahead and leave." However, he proceded with the citation and now I have a court date. My opionion is the officer was simply a power hungry bully who gets his kicks out of this type of enforcement. He seemed to reli***he fact that I was out-of-state and he could threaten me with missing my plane and taking me to the Baltimore City Police.

I am still in search of an attorney. Bottom line, I won't be on the Corridor with a camera unless I have a train ticket.

[88gta350]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Laurence_18

Thanks for all the help.

The calendar contest information is helpful, but contradictory.

For the record, the station did have a "Passengers Only" sign on the stairway to the platform.

I was very polite with the officer and fully expected him to say, "go ahead and leave." However, he proceded with the citation and now I have a court date. My opionion is the officer was simply a power hungry bully who gets his kicks out of this type of enforcement. He seemed to reli***he fact that I was out-of-state and he could threaten me with missing my plane and taking me to the Baltimore City Police.

I am still in search of an attorney. Bottom line, I won't be on the Corridor with a camera unless I have a train ticket.

Being that you were out of state the cop probably thought he'd get an easy fine out of it because you wouldn't bother coming back to make your court date... you'd just pay the fine. He's within his right since there was a sign, but he was being very unforgiving. If you take it to court I'd use the defense that you were taking pictures for the Amtrak calender contest, and print out the part that was quoted above. have the web address handy in case they want to see for themselves. It's very likely the cop might not show up for the court date for such a minor infraction.

[David_Telesha]

Well...

The fact that you ignored the sign complicates things.

However, I don't see how its considered trespass if Amtrak says EXPLICITLY stations are public areas and photographers are welcome there. The page I linked to doesn't contradict. It is explicit in saying areas open to passengers are therefore open to public access for photographers. Specifically the part I quoted.

Though it says some stations on the system require "prior permission" it is not specific as to where or how.

However, since it was posted...

Personally, I would've just bought a ticket or found someplace else...

But, so says the old saying "you made your bed, now lie in it"....

I railfan the corridor and never had any trouble.

[88gta350]

QUOTE: Originally posted by David_Telesha

Well...

The fact that you ignored the sign complicates things.

However, I don't see how its considered trespass if Amtrak says EXPLICITLY stations are public areas and photographers are welcome there. The page I linked to doesn't contradict. It is explicit in saying areas open to passengers are therefore open to public access for photographers. Specifically the part I quoted.

However, since it was posted...

Personally, I would've just bought a ticket or found someplace else...

But...

I would have just asked somebody if I could photograph from there. Ask a ticket agent or a luggage handler, someone low on the totem pole.... if they say yes then you've officially been okayed by an employee to be there and legally you'd be alright.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Hmmmmm. Let me think now, doesn't this sound a lot like what happened to me in 1965 at a train station, only the police carried AK-47's and we spent 6 hours at the police station, OH YEAH, this was in EAST GERMANY ! ! (they also took the film from my camera and confiscated $7.50 in Canadian money. I'm still trying to get it back. Do I see a trend here?

Don't mean to offend any of our Maryland members, but when I lived there WAY too many residents, and especially politicians and state government employees, thought East Germany was a dandy model for how a state ought to be run. I called it the gulag-in-training.

[PBenham]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

QUOTE: Originally posted by tatans

Hmmmmm. Let me think now, doesn't this sound a lot like what happened to me in 1965 at a train station, only the police carried AK-47's and we spent 6 hours at the police station, OH YEAH, this was in EAST GERMANY ! ! (they also took the film from my camera and confiscated $7.50 in Canadian money. I'm still trying to get it back. Do I see a trend here?

Don't mean to offend any of our Maryland members, but when I lived there WAY too many residents, and especially politicians and state government employees, thought East Germany was a dandy model for how a state ought to be run. I called it the gulag-in-training.

Add the New York Soviet Socialist Republic to this dismal list of states that ignore our rights, by letting bulllies push innocent people around. BUT IF there was a sign, then you're[banghead][censored][banghead]. Photography is absolutely, totally,[B)] forbidden[:(!] in or around Amtrak stations from Albany-Rensselaer to GCT/ Penn station, where you [V]MUST HIDE[V] a camera in a bag that will to the tiny [:o)][D)]mind of an overzealous cop, appointed or self appointed, "fit in their box" of normalcy. Tred outside their "box" at your peril! Amtrak, [:(][:o)][B)][tdn][soapbox]

[espeefoamer]

Those Maryland cops had better stay away from Fullerton on a Friday or Saturday night[:(!].They would need a bus to haul us all in.We are left alone here, and no one has done anything out of line.

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the Warnings. I won't go Railfanning on the Amtrak plattform in Omaha no more. They should put up a sign that says: WARNING! TO "ALL" RAILFANS! STAY AWAY OR YOU WILL BE ARRESTED ON SITE! LOL.

[bnsfkline]

This happened to me before...the Judge laughed at the citation and threw the case out....He stated "There is no law against being on a station platform taking pictures of trains, I even did that before!"

[Anonymous]

this would be the main reason i'm not a photographer. being too lazy to actually do it is running a close second.

[Anonymous]

Careful Fullerton! Dey Haf buses.... bunches of dem dar buses he he he.

Stay safe!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Laurence_18

I received a criminal citation and court summons for being on the platform taking pictures in Baltimore (AKA Trespass)!!! Amtrak police gone wild!

Anyone know a good lawyer (seriously)?

Is there a suggested defense? Warning to others..don't go there!

So you got a "ticket"? basically that' what you got...there likely is gonna just be a fine for you to pay, and hiring a lawyer is only gonna put a bigger dent in your wallet, so why bother? (unless you were rude to the officer)

If you have been behaving in a civilized fashion thus far...I'd go to the hearing, plead "no contest" and in so doing explain to the judge that since you were not from around there, you were unaware of any restrictions, promise him it'll never happen again, lesson learned, and plea for leniancy.

never know man, if you have a clean record and yout plea is convincing.you might get booted out with just a warning. Or some token fine to cover the paperwork.

A lawyer is only gonna make that more expensive than it needs to be.

[Anonymous]

I never had any problems railfanning or with cops either except the cop at our school you suspects that everyone is up to no good

[richardy]

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

QUOTE: Originally posted by richardy

QUOTE: Originally posted by miniwyo

You are lucky you only got a citation. Depending on the state laws there The officer may have been able to arrest you for Criminal Trespass.

He WAS arrested for Criminal Trespass, a citation is an arrest; he was released on a signature bond instead of being hauled to jail and required to post a cash bond. If he doesn't show in court then a bench warrant will be issued for his arrest and he will be hauled to jail.

You are right a citation is a document that is charging him with Criminal Trespass. I guess what I was trying to say is that he could have been taken into custody for it if the officer had felt that Laurence's action warranted it.
I just merely said arrest because most people think that a citation and an arrest are different things, a Citation being a thing that makes you pay a fine, and an arrest making you go to jail. However the fine that you pay for the ticket is basically paying the bond to keep the bench warrant from passing. You wouldnt hapen to be in law enforcement would you Richardy?

Not in law enforcement but my work brings me very close to them, many are my friends and I am in the ride along program. In OK a ticket is an arrest, your signature or DL are the bond depending on the citation. Did not mean to come down on you, sorry.[:(]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

QUOTE: Originally posted by Laurence_18

I received a criminal citation and court summons for being on the platform taking pictures in Baltimore (AKA Trespass)!!! Amtrak police gone wild!

Anyone know a good lawyer (seriously)?

Is there a suggested defense? Warning to others..don't go there!

So you got a "ticket"? basically that' what you got...there likely is gonna just be a fine for you to pay, and hiring a lawyer is only gonna put a bigger dent in your wallet, so why bother? (unless you were rude to the officer)

If you have been behaving in a civilized fashion thus far...I'd go to the hearing, plead "no contest" and in so doing explain to the judge that since you were not from around there, you were unaware of any restrictions, promise him it'll never happen again, lesson learned, and plea for leniancy.

never know man, if you have a clean record and yout plea is convincing.you might get booted out with just a warning. Or some token fine to cover the paperwork.

A lawyer is only gonna make that more expensive than it needs to be.

And if you pay the "ticket" as Gates suggests, you also have a criminal record that follows you forever- its not a traffic citation- I'd fight it . If you lose, you still have the record, but if you win you have no record.
Next time stick to the street car platform in Baltimore- I haven't been bothered over there, through the pictures are not very good.

[miniwyo]

Oh don't worry about it Richardy, I understand what you were driving at. I was just trying to simplify it to show a difference between a ticket and an arrest. Most people see them as being 2 different things. In Wyo. the 2 are the same like they are in OK and I think they are in all other states as well.