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Montana Gov. Schweitzer argues for rail competition

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Montana Gov. Schweitzer argues for rail competition
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, February 21, 2006 11:10 PM
http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/02/21/breaker/doc43fbacab9137a989477449.prt

"HELENA - Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer Tuesday called on the chairman of the federal Surface Transportation Board to get behind allowing rail competition "HELENA - Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer Tuesday called on the chairman of the federal Surface Transportation Board to get behind allowing rail competition "to the maximum extent possible" as current law requires."

Hey, not bad! The governor comes out swinging against the STB!

However, is the Governor correct in his ascertation that the STB simply has not enforced the competitive caveats (presumbably of the Stagger's Act)?

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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:03 AM
If the sovereign state of Montana is willing to file an antitrust suit in this matter, than I will say that the governor is willing to put the state's money where his mouth is. If that isn't the case, he's obviously pandering to the voters. Talk is cheap.
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Posted by spbed on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:07 AM
That would be something to give the UPRR trackage rights over the BNSF from Chicago to Seattle via the northern overland roure[:o)][:o)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

http://www.missoulian.com/articles/2006/02/21/breaker/doc43fbacab9137a989477449.prt

"HELENA - Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer Tuesday called on the chairman of the federal Surface Transportation Board to get behind allowing rail competition "HELENA - Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer Tuesday called on the chairman of the federal Surface Transportation Board to get behind allowing rail competition "to the maximum extent possible" as current law requires."

Hey, not bad! The governor comes out swinging against the STB!

However, is the Governor correct in his ascertation that the STB simply has not enforced the competitive caveats (presumbably of the Stagger's Act)?


Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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Posted by TomDiehl on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:11 AM
And I notice the Governor doesn't say HOW the STB isn't "behind allowing rail competition “to the maximum extent possible” as current law requires." Not sure how he's "focusing" on the lack of competition.

Or where the investment is coming from for this "competition."

And granting trackage rights to another railroad on an already clogged rail line? I fail to see how that will help, either.

Have to agree with Paul on the "pandering to voters" statement. (Gee, this wouldn't be an election year for Governor in Montana, would it?)
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Posted by chad thomas on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 9:22 AM
If they want competition so bad why don't they buy or build some of there own track?
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Posted by SALfan on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:16 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

If they want competition so bad why don't they buy or build some of there own track?


AMEN!!!! How much out of his own pocket is the governor willing to donate to the kitty to increase competition? That would be a good indicator of how interested he REALLY is.
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Posted by arbfbe on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 6:26 PM
How about allowing the UP to solicit business along the BNSF mainline and then have the BNSF move it under a haulage agreement to the nearest interchange point? Railroads seem to be able to work under such an arrangement when it suits their needs. Why should the State of MT be required to build another unnecessary railroad mainline that parallels one currently in service?

The other carriers get traffic protection when a merger is put into place but the shippers who are told of all the benefits they will receive from the joining have no such guarantee. The MILW got their Gateways on the BN when that merger happened and they could have forced the BN to haul MILW traffic from Billings under a haulage arrangement but just never seemed to get around to making it work. They did operate their own trains out of Portland and Louisville, KY as a result of the L&N/Monon merger so it seems it can be done for the carriers but not the shippers. When the BN merger happened the shippers were told they could use the MILW to compete with the BN. That worked fine until the MILW left the state. So when the primary shipper protection elements goes away nothing is established to maintain competition for the shippers. Let's reopen the first BN merger and argue the case all over again based upon 2006 realities. Perhaps the NP and GN should be broken up to maintain options for the shippers in Montana, the Dakotas, north Idaho and Washington.
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Posted by TomDiehl on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 7:59 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

How about allowing the UP to solicit business along the BNSF mainline and then have the BNSF move it under a haulage agreement to the nearest interchange point? Railroads seem to be able to work under such an arrangement when it suits their needs. Why should the State of MT be required to build another unnecessary railroad mainline that parallels one currently in service?



You mean using all that excess capacity that Dave seems to think BNSF has in this area? If there's no new rail line or expansion of capacity on existing lines, it doesn't matter who solicits the business, the capacity needs to be there before there will be any benefit for the shippers.

As far as "unnecessary" we need to go back to capacity of the line as it stands now in comparison to the current traffic.
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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:01 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

And I notice the Governor doesn't say HOW the STB isn't "behind allowing rail competition “to the maximum extent possible” as current law requires." Not sure how he's "focusing" on the lack of competition.


Perhaps he DID say but it didn't get printed. Perhaps the writer of the story thought such details would be too boring for it's readers.

Whether or not this governor knows the details or is just pandering is not clear from the article.

QUOTE:
Or where the investment is coming from for this "competition."


Who say't it requires "investment"? Maybe just enforcing the written caveats will be all it takes, huh Tom?

QUOTE:
And granting trackage rights to another railroad on an already clogged rail line? I fail to see how that will help, either.


Again, the article isn't clear on which lines if any would be subject to joint use by another rail service provider. But MRL still has available capacity, as well as most of the entire I-15 rail corridor comprised of BNSF, MRL, MW, and UP (some of which is in place but out of service), and the former NP line east of Billings hosts a coal train or two max.

Oh, there's viable capacity available should it be drafted into service. No problem here.

QUOTE:
Have to agree with Paul on the "pandering to voters" statement. (Gee, this wouldn't be an election year for Governor in Montana, would it?)


I won't disagree that he indeed might be pandering, but you should know two things:
1. He's a Democrat like you.
2. No, it's not an election year.
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Posted by TomDiehl on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:53 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

And I notice the Governor doesn't say HOW the STB isn't "behind allowing rail competition “to the maximum extent possible” as current law requires." Not sure how he's "focusing" on the lack of competition.


Perhaps he DID say but it didn't get printed. Perhaps the writer of the story thought such details would be too boring for it's readers.

Whether or not this governor knows the details or is just pandering is not clear from the article.

QUOTE:
Or where the investment is coming from for this "competition."


Who say't it requires "investment"? Maybe just enforcing the written caveats will be all it takes, huh Tom?



A lot of "perhapsing" and "maybeing" there. Too bad we don't hear any facts.
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Posted by TomDiehl on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:57 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal
two things:
1. He's a Democrat like you.
2. No, it's not an election year.


1. Worse than that, I'm an independant thinker. It takes little or no intellegence to pull the same party lever year after year.

2. Funny, it's an election year in PA. Already getting calls from the State Rep.
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Posted by TomDiehl on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 8:59 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by futuremodal

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl
And granting trackage rights to another railroad on an already clogged rail line? I fail to see how that will help, either.


Again, the article isn't clear on which lines if any would be subject to joint use by another rail service provider. But MRL still has available capacity, as well as most of the entire I-15 rail corridor comprised of BNSF, MRL, MW, and UP (some of which is in place but out of service), and the former NP line east of Billings hosts a coal train or two max.

Oh, there's viable capacity available should it be drafted into service. No problem here.




And add to that an "isn't clear." Hmmmmm.
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Posted by MichaelSol on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:05 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

If the sovereign state of Montana is willing to file an antitrust suit in this matter, than I will say that the governor is willing to put the state's money where his mouth is. If that isn't the case, he's obviously pandering to the voters. Talk is cheap.

The sovereign state of Montana did precisely that for 17 years as a party to the McCarty Farms case. He is obviously taking a different route than the one that, despite ICC findings supporting Montana's contentions, ultimately led to the defeat of the case on technical grounds.

It wasn't cheap.

Best regards, Michael Sol
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Posted by MichaelSol on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:06 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

If they want competition so bad why don't they buy or build some of there own track?


AMEN!!!! How much out of his own pocket is the governor willing to donate to the kitty to increase competition? That would be a good indicator of how interested he REALLY is.

He's a wheat farmer. He's been paying his 30% tithe out of his own pocket for over 20 years.

Best regards, Michael Sol

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Posted by MichaelSol on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:16 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

How about allowing the UP to solicit business along the BNSF mainline and then have the BNSF move it under a haulage agreement to the nearest interchange point? Railroads seem to be able to work under such an arrangement when it suits their needs. Why should the State of MT be required to build another unnecessary railroad mainline that parallels one currently in service?



You mean using all that excess capacity that Dave seems to think BNSF has in this area? If there's no new rail line or expansion of capacity on existing lines, it doesn't matter who solicits the business, the capacity needs to be there before there will be any benefit for the shippers.

As far as "unnecessary" we need to go back to capacity of the line as it stands now in comparison to the current traffic.

No one has suggested that there is a capacity problem on these lines. Least of all BNSF.

It has not only not been alleged, but aside from standard maintenance programs and upgrades, there is no program in place to increase capacity on Montana's BNSF lines.

Apparently this is the usual made-up dead fi***hat has nothing to do with the matter discussed by the Governor, which is not a capacity issue, but a pricing issue.

This is shown by the simple expedient of noting that the proposal made by the Governor relates to existing traffic already there, and not some new traffic which the poster, who claims to be an "independant" "thinker," confuses with the issue at hand.

Best regards, Michael Sol
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Wednesday, February 22, 2006 10:48 PM
What parts of the Staggers Act would pertain to this situation? Not a trick question-I know very little about it, and am curious. Thanks

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by Joby on Thursday, February 23, 2006 12:38 AM
How about Railroads focus on the real competition--trucks.
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Posted by tormadel on Thursday, February 23, 2006 1:15 AM
What's he going to do? Require the BNSF to divest itself of one of the routes? Forcing a recreation of a 2nd northern rail corridor? They wouldn't have to go through this trouble if the Milwaukee had not been economically torpedo'd.
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Posted by tormadel on Thursday, February 23, 2006 1:20 AM
And Montana can feel free to fund the rebuilding of the Old Milwaukee mainline if he's really that concerned about it. From what I've read in Trains about the old towns left behind I'm sure alot of voters would appreciate it.
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Posted by kenneo on Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:09 AM
Re-create the MILW and "sell" it to the KCS as a safe-harbor operator. The torn-up part and the South Dakota used-to-be owned lines including south to Kansas City would do the trick. And how! Direct export competition to Portland, Seattle, Houston and New Orleans! The MILW came ever-so-close to forcing the GN and NP into recievership before the BN merger -- think of what they could do with a management that really wanted to beat the competition.

The MILW had either a main line or well sited branch lines throught the productive areas of the NP and GN in eastern Montana.
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Posted by tormadel on Thursday, February 23, 2006 2:12 AM
Yeah true, but the point is what does the gov. want done about it? Just hold a gun to BNSF's head and regulate it? I don't like that, I'm pretty convienced the regulating is bad bad thing.
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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:42 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl

QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe

How about allowing the UP to solicit business along the BNSF mainline and then have the BNSF move it under a haulage agreement to the nearest interchange point? Railroads seem to be able to work under such an arrangement when it suits their needs. Why should the State of MT be required to build another unnecessary railroad mainline that parallels one currently in service?



You mean using all that excess capacity that Dave seems to think BNSF has in this area? If there's no new rail line or expansion of capacity on existing lines, it doesn't matter who solicits the business, the capacity needs to be there before there will be any benefit for the shippers.

As far as "unnecessary" we need to go back to capacity of the line as it stands now in comparison to the current traffic.

No one has suggested that there is a capacity problem on these lines. Least of all BNSF.

It has not only not been alleged, but aside from standard maintenance programs and upgrades, there is no program in place to increase capacity on Montana's BNSF lines.

Apparently this is the usual made-up dead fi***hat has nothing to do with the matter discussed by the Governor, which is not a capacity issue, but a pricing issue.

This is shown by the simple expedient of noting that the proposal made by the Governor relates to existing traffic already there, and not some new traffic which the poster, who claims to be an "independant" "thinker," confuses with the issue at hand.

Best regards, Michael Sol


Hate to burst your bubble Michael, but Dave is the one in other posts that's suggested this, then followed up with statements that the trains move an average of 50 miles a day through here. I wonder why that is? Whenever he actually presents facts instead of "maybes" or "perhaps" he falls right into things that indicate an overtaxed infrastructure. Plans by the BNSF to increase capacity or not wasn't the issue. It's what the Governor is suggesting they do. Of course, his statement was so vague, it sounds more like finger pointing than an actual idea of how to improve the situation.

The "made up dead fish" here seems to be the Governor looking for free publicity in an election year. Make it look like you're going to do good things for the voters, then forget it all by Thanksgiving.

And "independant thinker" was one term. The only thing that supposedly "confuses" me is Dave's contradictions.
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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, February 23, 2006 5:44 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by cementmixr

QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol
...the poster, who claims to be an "independant" "thinker,"...


Those separate quotes gave me a good laugh here.


Cheers.


Attempts at altering the meaning of things seems to be "standard procedure" with him.

Or would that be "standard" "procedure?"
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Posted by MichaelSol on Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:19 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl
The "made up dead fish" here seems to be the Governor looking for free publicity in an election year. Make it look like you're going to do good things for the voters, then forget it all by Thanksgiving.

As Dave has already pointed out, the Governor of Montana does not stand for re-election this year. He was elected to office in 2004 and took office in January, 2005.

Best regards, Michael Sol
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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:32 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl
The "made up dead fish" here seems to be the Governor looking for free publicity in an election year. Make it look like you're going to do good things for the voters, then forget it all by Thanksgiving.

As Dave has already pointed out, the Governor of Montana does not stand for re-election this year. He was elected to office in 2004 and took office in January, 2005.

Best regards, Michael Sol


Since there was so much "supposing" and "maybeing" in the same post, it put the other info in doubt.
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Posted by wallyworld on Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:37 AM
Like most political pronouncements this one is long on verbiage and short on details.
Montana is a beautiful state with wonderful people but it is a political backwater with not alot of industry which has more real world clout than vague pronouncements wishing another governmental agency would turn a wheel without providing them a bill of lading. Calling for competition alone in a capitalist economy without alot of financial clout strikes me as a goofy and half baked example of psycho-babble.

Nothing is more fairly distributed than common sense: no one thinks he needs more of it than he already has.

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Posted by MichaelSol on Thursday, February 23, 2006 9:45 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by arbfbe
The MILW got their Gateways on the BN when that merger happened and they could have forced the BN to haul MILW traffic from Billings under a haulage arrangement but just never seemed to get around to making it work.

Hi Alan, Billings involved two "Conditions" under the BN Merger order.

The Billings "Gateway" condition wasn't particularly successful for Milwaukee -- that business amounted to a couple hundred carloads a year. But, the Billings "Entry" condition that you describe generated about $1.2 milion per year for Milwaukee, and BN did all the actual carload handling for Milwaukee under contract, delivering the traffic to Milwaukee at Miles City, Bozeman, or Judith Gap. Great Western Sugar was a big user of Milwaukee airslides under that Condition. It wasn't huge, but $1.2 million was nothing to sneeze at either. That is just about $5 million in today's dollars. It required no additional infrastructure investment by Milwaukee to obtain the business.

That was one of the instances, you might recall, of "Conditions" compliance that the "merger review committee" looked at.

Armed with an order from the ICC, they examined BN records and found a whole program of threats to lessees of BN property that their leases might be re-examined if they used Milwaukee services, strong-arming of shippers, and alarmingly, a whole slew of records on the subject that were simply missing -- records required to be kept by the ICC.

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Posted by MichaelSol on Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:57 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by wallyworldCalling for competition alone in a capitalist economy without alot of financial clout strikes me as a goofy and half baked example of psycho-babble.

The Sherman Antitrust Act is now 116 years old. It was used successfully against the Northern Securities Company, the Standard Oil trust, the American Tobacco Company and American Telephone and Telegraph (AT&T).

The Clayton Antitrust Act (1914), the Robinson-Patman Act and the Hart-Scoss-Rodino Antitrust Improvement Act (1976) were enacted by subsequent Congresses..

Although railroads are to some degree exempt, or covered differently, your statement reads quite broadly, and condemns over a century of opinion by the democratic agency charged with putting such matters into law.

Psycho-babble?

Best regards, Michael Sol
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Posted by MichaelSol on Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:05 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl
Hate to burst your bubble ... Whenever he actually presents facts instead of "maybes" or "perhaps" he falls right into things that indicate an overtaxed infrastructure. Plans by the BNSF to increase capacity or not wasn't the issue. It's what the Governor is suggesting they do. Of course, his statement was so vague, it sounds more like finger pointing than an actual idea of how to improve the situation.

QUOTE: Original article quoting the Governor of Montana
Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer Tuesday called on the chairman of the federal Surface Transportation Board to get behind allowing rail competition “to the maximum extent possible” as current law requires.
...
“Montana has not been getting a square deal from its rail service provider,” Schweitzer said. “Competition is critical to a resource-based economy like Montana’s. Our rural communities, especially, deserve no less.

“I want to focus on the effect the lack of rail competition is having on the economy of the state, which results in both excessive freight rates and poor service,” Schweitzer added.
...
“Having a monopoly that takes the profit out of the transaction between our Montana producers and the consumers of Montana goods must be remedied,” Schweitzer said. “The lack of regulatory oversight combined with the lack of rail competition is hurting Montana’s export economy and its ability to compete.”


Best regards, Michael Sol
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Posted by TomDiehl on Thursday, February 23, 2006 11:56 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by MichaelSol

QUOTE: Originally posted by TomDiehl
Hate to burst your bubble ... Whenever he actually presents facts instead of "maybes" or "perhaps" he falls right into things that indicate an overtaxed infrastructure. Plans by the BNSF to increase capacity or not wasn't the issue. It's what the Governor is suggesting they do. Of course, his statement was so vague, it sounds more like finger pointing than an actual idea of how to improve the situation.

QUOTE: Original article quoting the Governor of Montana
Montana Gov. Brian Schweitzer Tuesday called on the chairman of the federal Surface Transportation Board to get behind allowing rail competition “to the maximum extent possible” as current law requires.
...
“Montana has not been getting a square deal from its rail service provider,” Schweitzer said. “Competition is critical to a resource-based economy like Montana’s. Our rural communities, especially, deserve no less.

“I want to focus on the effect the lack of rail competition is having on the economy of the state, which results in both excessive freight rates and poor service,” Schweitzer added.
...
“Having a monopoly that takes the profit out of the transaction between our Montana producers and the consumers of Montana goods must be remedied,” Schweitzer said. “The lack of regulatory oversight combined with the lack of rail competition is hurting Montana’s export economy and its ability to compete.”


Best regards, Michael Sol


“I want to focus on the effect the lack of rail competition is having on the economy of the state, which results in both excessive freight rates and poor service,” Schweitzer added."

And do what about it?

“The lack of regulatory oversight combined with the lack of rail competition is hurting Montana’s export economy and its ability to compete."

Same question.

Equals "vague."
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