Potash - where does it come from - where does it go?

[Anonymous]

I see a lot of Potash cars (redish/orange cylindrical covered hoppers) on the CN here in lovely, balmy Wisconsin. Does anyone know:

Where potash comes from (geographically and geologically) and what industries use it?

Thx,
Stack

[joegreen]

Well I'm not exactly sure where it comes from but I know there's a CO-OP near me that gets shipments of it in the fall. I comes in hopper cars wether it be 2-bay or 3-bay. I believe the farmers buy this stuff from the CO-OP and spread it on their fields in the fall after the picking is done, I'm not 100% sure about this but I overheard my uncle talking about it, since he works at the CO-OP.

[nanaimo73]

Most of it comes from the Canadian Province of Saskatchewan, where it is mined underground.
It is a fertilizer similar to the Phosphate mined east of Tampa.

[Anonymous]

Potash (or carbonate of potash) is an impure form of potassium carbonate (K2CO3) mixed with other potassium salts - it's kind of a generic term to used to describe various types of mined material. It's a major component of fertilizers - if you look on the bag of lawn fertilizer you buy this spring, potassium is the third mineral listed on the ratio mix (nitrogen/phosphorus/potassium).

Most of the potash in North America is mined in Western Canada. What you're seeing are trains moving off the CN and CP to Chicago area interchange for forwarding to fertilizer plants all over the eastern USA. As an example CP/CSX/Indiana & Ohio move eight or twelve unit trains a year to the Royster Clark fertilizer plant in Washington Court House, Ohio - which gives us a change to see CP units here in the wilds of Suthern Ahia!.

[jeaton]

Just off the top. Along with nitrogen and phosphorus compounds, Potash (Potassium Oxide) is a primary plant nutrient. Dry fertilizer compounds containing potash are usually drilled in with seeds for field crops at planting time. It is also found in the fertilizer compounds that are used for landscaping and garden plants. I believe it is an essential compound for root development.

My vague recall says Saskatchewan mines, to everywhere plants are grown by people.

Jay

Now I will try Wikepedia

[bobwilcox]

SK has about a 3,000 year supply at current world consumption rates. Another source of the material is at Carlsbad, NM.

[dldance]

As far as I know they are still shipping potash from the mine near Moab UT-- but with the demand for potash in the West, I doubt that is the source of the potash you are seeing in WI.

dd

[bobwilcox]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance

As far as I know they are still shipping potash from the mine near Moab UT-- but with the demand for potash in the West, I doubt that is the source of the potash you are seeing in WI.

dd

That PCS mine at Moab was originally built to mine potash. That stopped many years ago and now the mine just produces rock salt. The mine is not a jewel in the PCS crown. Actually it has been a fiasco from the day in opened.

[tatans]

There are 10 mines in Sask., 1 in New Brunswick, and 2 Sask. solution mines. Potash is Potassium chloride KCl, these underground mines are gigantic in area and very very deep, I assume most is used as fertilizer but there must be other uses also, it's shipped by rail out of Sask. to everywhere in the world. The deposits were left when the areas were inland seas and deposited as sediments, not too thick but massive in area. If they could now figure out what to do with hundreds of miles of mining tunnels underground, maybe we can all start living there like gophers eh?

[dldance]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

QUOTE: Originally posted by dldance

As far as I know they are still shipping potash from the mine near Moab UT-- but with the demand for potash in the West, I doubt that is the source of the potash you are seeing in WI.

dd

That PCS mine at Moab was originally built to mine potash. That stopped many years ago and now the mine just produces rock salt. The mine is not a jewel in the PCS crown. Actually it has been a fiasco from the day in opened.

so I was half right - the Moab mine is not the source of the potash seen in WI - thanks, Bob, for the information.

dd

[Ray Dunakin]

If I remember correctly, potash also comes from Searles Lake in Trona, CA. That's in the Mojave desert.

[bobwilcox]

The mine at Searles Lake has made both trona and potash in the past. Trona is refined into soda ash. Soda ash goes into the manufacutre of glass and other processes needing sodium. Potash is a source of pottasium. Virtually all of it is used for fertilizer.

[ozzy01]

Doesn't potash also come from Wyoming. Seems there was a Trains article from the 80's with an UP map that showed the branch line it was on.

[bobwilcox]

WY does not have potash. There are large trona (soda ash) deposits just west of Grenn River, WY on the UP.

[robscaboose]

On a historical note before potash was found naturally in the West. Most of the Soda Ash came from Solvay (Syracuse) NY. My Grandfather was a RR Engineer for the Solvay Process Plant for 30 +yrs. After it was found naturally out West the plant shut down. It was a loss of many jobs, but the manufacturing process made Ononadga Lake one of the most poluted (an still is) lakes in the nation. (30+ years after the plant closed you still cannot swim or eat the few fi***hat live in the water)

Rob

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ray Dunakin

If I remember correctly, potash also comes from Searles Lake in Trona, CA. That's in the Mojave desert.

Is that the former SP line that had a tunnel fire in the early 80's? (featured in a 1983 Trains article, "Rx For a Broken Jawbone.")

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by bobwilcox

SK has about a 3,000 year supply at current world consumption rates. Another source of the material is at Carlsbad, NM.

Carlsbad, NM has a large and interesting yard just east of town. There is a company that cleans and services the RR cars in the yard, preping them for their next assignment. You can get very close to the yard and may photograph and see both the local shortline(SD EMD's) and various BNSF Equipment.

[Anonymous]

Thanks very much to all that responded. Geez, what a smart group of people who hang out here.

Thanks again,
- - Stack

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by cementmixr

QUOTE: Originally posted by Ray Dunakin

If I remember correctly, potash also comes from Searles Lake in Trona, CA. That's in the Mojave desert.

Is that the former SP line that had a tunnel fire in the early 80's? (featured in a 1983 Trains article, "Rx For a Broken Jawbone.")

I just learned that the SP's Jawbone branch goes from Mohave to Searles, where it connects to the Trona RR. Coal is hauled in to Searles for the Trona chemical plant, and Soda Ash and other chemicals are hauled out. Of course, it is Union Pacific now, and not SP.

There is a new book on this line:
JAWBONE: Sunset on the Lone Pine
http://www.omnirr.com/

[lechee]

Do they still run trains into potash utah? That is a very senic branch and has been used in several movies.

[tatans]

Want info on potash go to : www.potashcorp.com then click on "At a glance"
plenty of info here, the statistics are staggering.

[Medina1128]

I used to clean pot-ash from my ashtray when I was a lot younger and more foolish, but that's another story.

[Anonymous]

All I want to know is what is Mark Hemphill doing in Iraq?[?]

[Anonymous]

for a great reference / TRAINS magazine did a article about a year & half ago about minerals hauled on the Rio-Grande. they give nice overviews of most minerals including potash and others ( I looked through my back issues and it must be out on loan so dont know exact date/my guess is april 2004). That article also tells of how slovay(the company) bought & shut down one of the mines to close out competetion.

[jakebud]

As I recall, there are some long abandonned potash related facilities just east of Alliance, Nebraska. You cane see that stuff while following the BNSF on NE Route 2.

SPIKE

[chiripero]

I agree with Stack ("What a smart group of people on here'). There is so much to learn on this planet and Trains Forum is a great place for some of that knowledge. I live about an hour or so South of Trona, CA and have been to that area to photograph trains and have dug in the lake bed for trona. Several years ago I spent the night in Carlsbad, NM and the locals there told me about the potash mining there. Very interesting subject. Thanks to all who responded to this interesting thread.
--Bob Bowen, Helendale, CA

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by lrenee

All I want to know is what is Mark Hemphill doing in Iraq?[?]

Mark W. Hemphill is the Deputy Senior Consultant for Railways, Iraq Reconstruction Management Office (IRMO).

These articles will give you an idea what he does-
American railroader with the Iraqi Republic Railways
Trains, July 2004 page 28
railroading in Iraq under war conditions
( "DEGMAN, RICK", IRAQ, RAILROADER, WAR, TRN )

Reflections on my brief career
Trains, September 2004 page 52
railroading in Iraq under war conditions
( "DEGMAN, RICK", IRAQ, RAILROADER, WAR, TRN )

[Anonymous]

Yes, Saskatchewan is a large exporter of pota***o be used as an agricultural fertilizer.

If you are interested you can see you can see at least part of a potash mine in high resolution using Goggle Earth at –
52 05’ 19.03” N
106 22’ 32.66” W

You can see the mine processing building and the conical silos used to store the potash. Only part of the rail yard is visible at high resolution. The lake (darker blue) to the north east (low rez.) never freezes, no mater how cold the winter. Saskatchewan winters are very cold. The whitish areas are slag dumps. These “mountains” can be seen for miles on the flat prairies.

[Poppa_Zit]

There are huge phosphate mines in Central Florida south of the Lakeland area.

[ERail]

Sorry to bump an old thread but this one has some useful info such that I'd rather put my questions here as opposed to starting a new thread.

I've read that CP hands off potash to UP at Eastport, Idaho.  How much of it then goes to places like Roseville, CA as opposed to Portland, OR?