Rail Road crossing lights

[Anonymous]

DOES anybody know how these things work? can anyone give me a detailed explination or lead me to a website that can give me a detailed explination on how these machines work.

Thnaks.
Detour Kev.

[mudchicken]

Kev:

Not a cut & dried answer. To my knowledge there are at least 14 different methods in common use that activate the warning lights starting with a simple DC gate circuit and insulated joints. Take a look at GE/Harmon, Union Switch & Signal, RCL or Denver Signal's website. The get a Manual of Uniform Traffic Control (MUTC) Handbook. The variations are countless. The engineering on these systems is for the most part different than what a highway engineer uses.

[wabash1]

Ok kev ill give a exsplanation and try and make it painless for both of us. when a crossing is put in the track speed is figured into how far out the starter circut goes. ( there is a signal maintaner on this site he may correct me) this is where the isulated joint is put, the starter circut ( on a count down system) starts counting down for the speed of train and starts the signal flashing to give a 15 sec warning for the public. if gates are involved it will make sure the gates are down for 5 sec before the train gets there.

now if you are moving slow or stopping before a crossing the cards read this and dont start flashing right away. all new crossings and most updated crossings have event recorders in them also. now the next circut is called the island circut. it has a veried size also from 15ft to 100ft or more from center of crossing and when this is shunted by railcar the lights come on and stay on. until this circut is cleared. then when train is over the island and leaving the other side of the circut it counts up knowing that the movement is away from crossing.

in short what ever is on the west end is also the lead time on east end (or north south) these signals are set to activate anytime something goes wrong so that the public gets warning even if no train is presant to make them stop look listen and live. failures are just about a thing of the past. there is some that may not activate these are low speed private plant or old style signals on tracks into yards. if the rails are rusted the signals wont work. even the island. and the power going into the bungalo is ac power but it is converted into dc power. ( ive been told that it is low voltage ac power also but its mostly dc) i hope this helps i have friends that are signal maintainers but dont get to see them that often anymore Hope this helps

[Anonymous]

hey J thanks man.. that does help.. i printed it out.

peace,
Kev.

[Anonymous]

You go to the hardware store and buy a motion detector floodlight for $20 bucks. Leave the motion sensor 20 seconds out. MPH converted to feet per second is 1.4666 times the mph times the 20 seconds. 60 mph track times 1.4666. So out 1,760 put your motion detector and run a electric line back to the crossing.

Don't listen to the railroad bozos for they will get you killed. Put one in a wheelchair at a 3 track crossing and say ready set go and see if they get across in 15 seconds. Any volunteers??

[edblysard]

No, most mammals are to smart to get in front of a moving train. Whats you excuse?
And where did you say you and mamma live? And what, besides being stuipd, do you do for a living?
Ed

[Anonymous]

Let's face it Unihead Ed,
missouri is the north end of a southbound mule and doesn't have the jewels to answer. But he did give some insight into getting my problem fixed--I called the IRS and should have the big pothole in front of my house fixed right away!!!

Take care, Em

[Anonymous]

At the risk of sounding like a paranoid republican, I have to ask why you would want to know so much about RR signaling systems. Sure, when I was a kid, we used to get a kick out out of laying a piece of stray metal across the rails to make the crossing flashers turn on. This sounds more like a question as to how to "fool" the CTC and cause a wreck.
I must ask of all knowlegable members of this forum to NOT! Give any details on the "net" concerning the signaling, operations, or otherwise to an unknown party.
Remember, a train can have devestating consequences as well, given the terrorist factor....
Imagine a 15,000 ton train with hazardous chemicals making up half the consist, if this were sabotoged some way, It could very well be worse than a "Chemical / Nuclear bomb".
We, as railfans, need to be just as vigilant as the railroads themselves, when it comes to security.
I wouldn't give out too many details on the inner workings of the RR's in such a public forum....

Just my 2cents worth.....
Todd Cline.

[Anonymous]

Surely someone in a wheelchair would have the common sense to look in both directions to see if there was enough room to cross the tracks safely, as they should when crossing a street.

However, a person should know electric lights don't always work. During and after some thunderstorms our town doesn't have electricity for hours...... I would not place my life on a electric circuit anytime......

[Anonymous]

Go to your locale Library, (if you know its location) ask for a "How it Works" book publiched by Time Life books. Everything about railroad signals is in there. Next to it you should find one "Modern Railroads" published by Banter books I believe. It also has a very good explaination on railroad signal equipment. Lets not forget Kalmbach Publishing Co. ABC's of railroading, you can buy that one! Then there is Union Switch & Signal Web sight, full of information.
But you make a good point, so for the reasons of National Defence, I'm going out and burn down my Library. Going through life ignorant on such technical matters is the safe way to be today. In fact, for the good of our Country, I'm going to organize a good ol'fashion book burning.
TIM A

[wabash1]

To answer a few questions the first one is for missouri The motion sensor garadge light thing you described is something you put on your toy layout the railroads use a little bit more technology than that second anyone with common sense sees a train comming and stops there is no such thing as the lights aint on yet lets go. by the time you say that they will be on. the differance is that most people walking riding bikes in wheel chairs will look both ways even if the crossing lights are not on. Take this from exsperance most all close calls and fatality accidents at crossing are due to a slow moving train and know areas that have slow moving trains people will take the chance to beat the train they dont want to wait and watch one go by. but they will cross in front of you then stand and watch you go by. ( this is foot traffic now.) and i have had people in wheel chairs do the same thing and even get hung up on the crossings. (didnt hit them, should have)

for the person who says that if the power goes out that they wouldnt trust the signals dont worry they are on battery back up and will last up to a week on battery power.

for the national security on ctc system fail safe.it will drop the signals to stop in all direction now i know there are variables in this but for most part not much will happen.

and tim dont go burn the libray down they just charge us tax payers to rebuild it for putting out the fire and the cost of the books. then we get a new crowd on here that hate railroaders who burn down librarys.

[Anonymous]

Wabash, your a very inteligent man. You should have been a teacher.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Thi is a response to Todd C..

Yers i should go through life as ignorant as missouri and Mike, uhm what else.. i could have most likely gone to howitworks.com and types in railway lights.. there are 31, 000 sites with "how Railorad singal work" have in them (google.com) ... what else...

OH yes i know i'm going to pay "farenheit 451" police! Anyone who has a book with the word railorad and signal, i'm vomming to yuor house and burning it.

the word railroad has now become illegal, do not repeat to any youngsters or you will be fined.

Praise God Tood, you don't run anyhting, your one of those Censorship addicts, if i was so desperate to trigger the railorad light system for a kick.. i would have already! maybe someone i know will see me... and i'll GET FIRED? yeah thats what i'll do.. i'll go down to the corssing... trigger the lights (they only stay on for 4 minutes if there is no activity on the line) and maybe a passing commuter train will see me.. and i'll get fired the next day for advocating a bad example!

Say thats what i'll do

Oh and Ed this part is for you. Nasa Changes the street liughts around here.. every time there is one burnt we have to call 1-800-NASA-NOW and they fly by in their jumbo rocket "challenger 2" and they one gets out stands on the wing while this thing hovers in the air.. and changes the bulb.. then the rocket begins moving again..

what system do you all use in the USA... bet ours is better :p
Kev.

[wabash1]

No way i be a teacher. then i would haft to be politically correct. I am not like that I call it like i see it.

[edblysard]

Hi Todd,
Caught your letter in railway post office, you were asking for more information on railroad oddities.
I get a kick out of the odd structures too.
Just to clue you in, if you sabotage the CTC, by cutting the power, the signals would go black, which is treated just like a absolute red, you have to stop. The only way you could change the aspect of a signal would be to rewire the signal itself, which would require a fairly good knowledge of electronics. Throwing a piece of steel across the rails dosnt work anymore, the system reads the resistance, anything less than a wheelset dosnt activate it, and if it did, the dispatcher would know right away.
As for information, and keeping it secret, well, it way to late. Trains even did a article on the sabatoge of the UP out in the desert, how the bad guys used jumper cables to bypass the joint bar they removed, and then pulled spikes and moved a section of rail far enough out of alignment to derail the train.
Any railroader has stood there with a few rail spikes in their hand, and realized how easy it really is to get a wheel high enough to get a wheel flange to clear the railhead.
There is so many miles of rail there is no way you can make it secure. And as for hazardous materials, most tanks have the contents stenciled on their sides, so identifing them in case of a accident is easy, which also makes it easy for those who's intent is to cause a problem to know whats is in the car too.
If your a dedicated terrorist, the information needed is out there, and here on the net, and not very hard to get. Shoot, I was in Sams Warehouse and found a book on railroads that had a fairly detailed drawing of how a signal system works. Anyone with any minimal skills could guess how to turn off or short out the system, but again, it has a failsafe in it, everything goes black, which train crews have to treat as the most restrictive aspect a signal can give.
I doubt any secret information could be given out here that hasn't already been published, in book form or on the thousands of websites around.
I would bet, based on you letter, you have a fairly good collection of Trains magazines. Go look at them as a whole, and think about how much information they really contain, and how much knowledge you already have in your possession.
What secrets are left?
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed, the EMD 91, 92 SD mac and Ge 8000 remember those secrets...?


hey who's knocking on my door so late?


cheers,
Detour Kev.

[Anonymous]

You know the average train speed in all fatalities was around 47 mph in January and that's AFTER the records were doctored by the railroads. Kinda shoots your slow train theory. Also the fact that Amtrak kills about 3 times as many people as the other railroads tells me the extra 20 mph they are allowed to drive does make a difference.
Then the greedy railroads are going around raising train speeds. Murdering #%$#^^#@%^

[Mookie]

I promised myself I wouldn't post this - but I can't help myself.

A woman was killed instantly at Lexington Nebraska late last week. She came to a railroad crossing that had it's gates down and lights flashing and bells ringing. She drove around the gates and was hit by a train.

Moment of silence for her.

Wonder if she was eating M & Ms.....

Jen

[wabash1]

47 mph why so slow ??? i was under the impression that we was all doing 70 mph. and this is after they doctored up the records. i didnt know they made records any more i was under the impression it was cd's or cassette tapes. And i know for a fact i dont drive a train. never droven a train, dont think its possible to drive a train. but i do have a question for you miss ouri

1) you stated in one of your stupid post that something about a man shoving cars over a crossing that the man didnt have a stop paddle or something very close to this, just how do you figure if that the lights are on gates down horn blowing bells ringing cars stopped and somebody drives around all this to go around a gate how is a man with a stop sign going to stop a car. jump infront of it.???

[Mookie]

old story - train switching small town elevator. Train passing over grade crossing - granted - only crossbucks - but switchman/brakeman? was standing at crossing to watch for automobiles. Elderly couple kept going - switchman/brakeman jumped on running board (told you it was old) and tried to get them to stop. Had to jump at last minute before they drove right straight into the SIDE of the moving train. Killed them both - but maybe that was the object in the first place!

Jen

[wabash1]

and according to missouri if they would have given the man a stop sign he would have stopped. on second thought maybe not. they was distracted and not looking at the road. the old couple was looking for the M&M they dropped.

[Mookie]

wonder if it was plain or peanut?

Gotta go get my box of tissue again to wipe my eyes!

Jen

[theonejp]

We have had a spate of gate and light problems here in the Rochester NY area. Does anyone know what the average of mean failure rate of lights and gates is in cold weather?

[Mookie]

I nearly had a heart attack when I started reading this and saw Missouri!!!!!

Have to go lay my head down on my desk for awhile!

[dehusman]

Actually most mammals aren't smart enough to get out from in front of a moving train. They tend to run from it straight ahead, up the tracks, only maybe getting off at the last moment. Dogs are the worst.

Dave H.

[dehusman]

Todd C.:
I wouldn't worry too much about general questions on how things work. The ones I worry about are people looking for schematics or very specific information on how signal, communications or control systems work.

A question like how do they control two locomotives coupled together is pretty inocuous, a question like what frequencies do radio control locomotives operate on could be suspicious.

Dave H.

[wabash1]

I would like missourri to come back. it would be a treat to see if he has become any smarter if he learned anything over the year he has been banned, i remeber just before he was banned that he told mark that he would give him a lesson in electronics. seems missourri needs the lesson. people did listen to him til he started badgering them and making a pain of himself. now i bet he is in a rubber room cause nobody listens to him and nobody cares. i guess this is what they mean by it is lonly at the bottom !!! opps oh well he never was on top.

[jchnhtfd]

theonejp -- you have been having your troubles in upstate NY lately, haven't you? I don't have a figure for failure rates for you, but I do know that on occasion (depending on the exact circuits in use) excess salty water (your highway department has been using a bit!) can trip a grade crossing.

Keep in mind that the things are meant to be fail SAFE (like the CTC spoken of above): that means that if something goes wrong, the lights should go on and the gates come down. Murphy is alive and well, and it doesn't always work that way, but that's the idea. Then it is up to the motorists to figure out what's happening, preferably going some other way until the maintenance guys can get there (they move quick, but not at the speed of light) and fix or hand-signal the problem.

Remember: SAFE. If the lights are on, or the gates are down, assume there is a train a' comin' and don't wreck some poor engineer's day by crossing in front of it or driving into the side of it.

[Supermicha]

I don´t know as its intersting for you. I will try to explain the german system. There are small inductive boxes near the right rail. The engine or the cab car which leads the train has a magnet on the right side, which activates the box by flying over it. after that, the crossing lights start flashing and the gates, if available, are lowering. 1000 meters before the crossing is an indication signal, which shows the engineer with one white flashing light that the gates are closed. if the light is dark, he must stop at the signal and can proceed to the crossing with 10 km/h. that can happen when the indícator does not work, and also, when the gates can not lower, beacause a car stands under them. so this system is very safe and also very failsafe.

Micha

[vsmith]

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

I would like missourri to come back. it would be a treat to see if he has become any smarter if he learned anything over the year he has been banned, i remeber just before he was banned that he told mark that he would give him a lesson in electronics. seems missourri needs the lesson. people did listen to him til he started badgering them and making a pain of himself. now i bet he is in a rubber room cause nobody listens to him and nobody cares. i guess this is what they mean by it is lonly at the bottom !!! opps oh well he never was on top.

Thats a bad idea, just because the Chimp is older , its still a Chimp.

Letting Mini-Mo back onto the forum would be like giving a loaded gun to a chimp.
Remember the old saying:

If you give a Chimp a gun and he shoots someone you dont blame the Chimp.