Amtrak train stuck for 20 hours

[ironhorseman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainman2244

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironhorseman
[br The Newton, KS station has been called upon in the middle of the night to resupply the SW Chief with food or other supplies in the middle of the night with only a few hours notice.

Hmmm.... Maybe i found myself a new job [:p]

Good Luck! They cut back the staff several years ago from 2 to 1. I think the guy that did nights got laid off and the guy that did days was moved to nights and therefore daytime hours were also eliminated. Now operates 12am-8am (whether the train comes in this time frame or not, I think, don't quote me on that for sure). It's too bad though, they have a nice station and had a good crew, real friendly.

[#dots]

... And by the way, I knew there was another Kansan on these here forums, but couldn't remember who. I won't be back online until at least May. I'll be in Missouri (ugh! [xx(]) during that time. Let me know if that old Frisco line in east Wichita ever gets developed into something, bike trail or otherwise. I see it's back in news again.

[nemisis]

I was on the northbound 92 train stuck right beside the 98. Amtraks response to this was a bad joke. We were stuck in the Jacksonville station for 6 hours and then moved to the middle of a swamp in Georgia for another 10 hours. No one allowed off the train, no food, no explanation.

I do have to say, the wreck site was pretty spectacular. There were mangled rails, splintered ties and wrecked cars all over the place.

Then after finally making it through the wreck site we were stopped again because the crew ran out of time and we had to wait for another 3 1/2 hours for a relief crew. Now why couldn't Amtrak management calculate that the crew was running out of time and have a relief crew ready when we got there? They only had 16 hours to get this accomplished. Then we ran out of water which meant the bathrooms stopped working. We had 1 working bathroom for 250 people for a 5 hour period. We were not allowed off the train at any of the station stops, yelled at very nastily by Amtrak conductors who became nastier as the trip went on. The "dinner" they provided was a joke, two thin slices of lunch meat on a small sub roll with a small bag of chips. By the time we got to 30th st station in Philly they had been without food on the train for almost 24 hours. Apparently Amtrak is also incapable of re-supplying the lounge and dining cars en route.

I can't believe I paid to be mistreated like this. Amtrak has no regard for the welfare of its passengers and crew. It was a definite attitude of "We got you money so screw you!". This is definitely my last experience with long distance passenger rail!

[Modelcar]

...It is beyond me why some provisions can't be make regarding contractual agreements regarding crew....during the times of emergency....Re: {The 3 1/2 hr. delay after having had a major delay before....for new crew}.....

[cnw4001]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nemisis

I was on the northbound 92 train stuck right beside the 98. Amtraks response to this was a bad joke

I can't believe I paid to be mistreated like this. Amtrak has no regard for the welfare of its passengers and crew. It was a definite attitude of "We got you money so screw you!". This is definitely my last experience with long distance passenger rail!

First, thanks for the post and don't be a stranger in the forums.

The more I read about this in various sources the more obvious it becomes that like it or not, Amtrak is indeed in free fall and unless something happens soon those who want to eliminate it will be able to have their way with little or no opposition.

[RRCharlie]

My wife and I came south through Savannah, GA on New Years Eve morning, about two hours late. The derailment was just south of the station in Savannah and may have originally damaged the switches going into the station and the track from there south to Jacksonville is single track and out in the woods. The only way to have moved the train would have been to back it up oddles of miles to Jacksonville or have CSX send a rescue unit to pull it back. I would expect that was probably not possible because of CSX freights backed up behind the Silver Meteor with no place to go as well.

[RudyRockvilleMD]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

BRING BACK DAVID GUNN


THIS FAILURE IS MINETA'S FAULT AND NO ONE ELSES.

Why is this Secretary Minetta's Fault? Please explain!

[narig01]

Re Amtrak Union Opposses Subway
Remember a Subway is generally underground. Not a good way to describe your service.
Ian G.Narita

[nemisis]

Now here's a question for those of you who know the routes in North Florida and Georgia better than I do. For the 6 hours we were stuck in Jacksonville BNSF freights kept rolling by the whole time. Where did they go? They weren't in front of us at the derailment site. Did they take a turnoff before Savannah?

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ralphm

I don't see many people laying the responsibility for some of this disaster where it belongs, namly CSX and its dispatching- that train didn't leave JAX without the approval of CSX and its dispatchers who should have known the time it was going to take to clear the wreck. (Unless they were being BS'd too by those on site- I have seen that happen, also). I can only assume that there were a dozen or more freights backing up behine #98, too. Mr. Ward has sure been quiet about all of this. He is the one that should be out front apologizing.

This sounds very plausible to me. If I were Amtrak, I'd defer comment on these matters to CSX and let that speak for itself.

There really weren't any good detour possibilities, but CSX and Amtrak's coordination of effort during this event was appalling.

[paulstecyna21]

that is interesting becuase i go to the eastern center for arts and technology in willow grove, pa and one person told me that this is outragous and crazy if you ask me. I say that amtrak should have used diesel locomotives to keep the trains on time if you ask me. why couldn't they do that?

[UPTRAIN]

CSX knows exactly what they're doing, and are probably still laughing about it...ok not really. But somebody didn't inform them of the full situation that was ahead.

[Anonymous]

[8D]ok why cant they back the train to to nearest station or a small town
& unload passengers onto a bus or while waiting go to nearest store & why be out in the woods what if a person had needed medical attention theres a law suit waitin to happen come on AMTRAKthink about it
[:D]

[Modelcar]

...I'm sure there was enough blame to be placed several locations.....If Amtrak had 3 trains heading north...and of course that is an everyday occurrence, and someone should have known of the derailment....and Amtrak personnel should have been on top of what had happened and before the trains got near that location....a plan should have been devised with CSX or whatever RR was necessary to handle a way around the derailment for them, etc.....If not possible cancel the trains at a proper location that alternate transportation could be arranged...or at least some to lodging, etc...Something better than what actually took place....Practically nothing...!

[Anonymous]

If CSX couldn't give a decent estiment why didn't Amtrak hold the Train in Jacksonville?

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by AMTK200

If CSX couldn't give a decent estiment why didn't Amtrak hold the Train in Jacksonville?

Plausible play by play:

CSX train derails.
Crew tells dispatcher
Dispatcher tells Chief Dispatcher (or STO or whatever CSX calls'em)
Chief tells AVP of trans and calls Div Engr.
Div Engr tells his line supv. to go find out what happened.
Meanwhile, AVP tells Ingram (the really big boss!) who lets it be known that they better get it cleaned up, pronto, no matter what!
This word flow quickly down the food chain, with increasing emphasis along the way, to the Engr supv. who just arrived on the site.
With pressure from "on high", the guy makes his absolute rosiest assessment as to when trains can be running again. He may not have much experience, either, which wouldn't help.
Work of time to cleam up filters back up, perhaps with some "rounding down" along the way, to make Ingram happy.
So, based on this info, they give Amtrak Wilmington the happy news, "only an couple of hours or so". Amtrak tells them to let the train go and CSX and start running trains behind it in anticipation of a quick clean up.

Now, if you add in the possibility of the job being bigger than the first, rushed analysis, the "couple of hours" could easily become 12+ hours, with trains stacking up on single track in both directions.

...and the toilets are full.....

[vsmith]

So who's in charge at CSX?, Moe , Larry or Curly?

[Modelcar]

oltmannd....Quite a scenario to handle such an emergency....and "what a way to run a railroad"......

[paulstecyna21]

i have been down to perryville, maryland and have seen supply trailers coupled up to amtrak trains. now why couldn't amtrak send a supply train to the that were stuck and get personel to unclog the toilets?

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

oltmannd....Quite a scenario to handle such an emergency....and "what a way to run a railroad"......

When mgt focuses on assigning blame more than fixing problems, there is a tendency to provide "happy talk" rather honesty. RRs that have morning phone conferences to decompose yesterday's disasters and hammer in the blame tend to have disfunctional processes. This was pretty much standard procedure most places 30 years ago - back when RRs had plenty of spare resources and fewer demands for high service levels.

[wwhitby]

QUOTE: Originally posted by vsmith

So who's in charge at CSX?, Moe , Larry or Curly?

Shemp :-)

[motor]

Did that train ever make it to NYC, or at least out of GA? This thread isn't clear on that, unless I missed something.

motor

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nemisis

Now here's a question for those of you who know the routes in North Florida and Georgia better than I do. For the 6 hours we were stuck in Jacksonville BNSF freights kept rolling by the whole time. Where did they go? They weren't in front of us at the derailment site. Did they take a turnoff before Savannah?

Norfolk Southern's line into Jacksonville starts in Macon, GA and runs roughly south to Valdosta, GA, then turns east-southeast to go to Jacksonville (IIRC). Depending on where you were, the freights could have headed for Macon via Valdosta, or they could have gone north 70 miles to Brunswick, GA on CSX and then moved to NS's line to Macon. Again IIRC, NS's lines to JAX, Brunswick and Savannah are like the fingers on a hand, with the palm being Macon (these are ex-Central of Georgia lines).

I'm not familiar with the track layout in Savannah, but it's possible that if the Amtrak train had been rerouted to Macon from Jacksonville or Brunswick then sent to Savannah it could have bypassed the derailment. However, that probably would have been impractical for dozens of reasons, such as other traffic on NS lines, lack of familiarity with those lines by Amtrak crews, lack of passenger-service facilities, etc., etc.

[rrnut282]

I'm going to guess that Amtrak couldn't back up because there probably were other trains waiting behind them. What I didn't see addressed in any of the information posted so far, Amtrak couldn't find enough buses to get pax to their destination. OK, so why didn't they get just enough buses to "detour around the derailment" and reverse the trains on either side of the derailment at Jacksonville and north of Savanah? Letting them go like lemmings from Jacksonville was big risk with no possibility of a "plan B".

How CSX has emerged without blame for this situation is beyond me. Another poster suggested that they reroute trains on another track. Amtrak can only run on rails that they have a "right" to run that has been negotiated by lawyers and only after it has been inspected and found to be in condition that will allow safe passage of a passenger train at speed. That cannot be worked out in a couple of hours. Sometimes it takes years. Also Amtrak in some cases ends up paying a (small) part of the track maintainence of the tracks that they run on, but do not own.

One last question, has anybody seen these "supply trailers" someone asked about? Could they be confusing road railers full of mail as a supply trailer?

[motor]

QUOTE: Originally posted by motor

Did that train ever make it to NYC, or at least out of GA? This thread isn't clear on that, unless I missed something.

motor

Guess it's still stuck in that Peach State swamp.

John

[Modelcar]

rrnut282....I probably am the one who wondered about the possibility of rerouting these detained Amtrak trains {if they would have been stopped in time to do so}, etc....As for all the regulations and track inspections, and other questions raised...why not be able to deviate some of these to handle the emergency....using restricted speed running....It's simply running another train over tracks used everyday...I know, all the restrictions in place that this sort of thing can't be done at will for just a "late" train, etc....but under these conditions with people kinda "emergency stranded" seems to me in this day and age of communitations, and all the rest...something as such could be done....If not, maybe now is a good time to work out the details so the "next time" this happens someone will know what and how to do it.

[oltmannd]

Once upon a time, the SAL coulda detoured over the ACL and vice versa - but that's all be "rationalized".

Looking at GA rail map, there really aren't any possible detour routes that would have been better than just waiting it out.

I like the "bus bridge" idea. Shouldn't have been too difficult to charter a half dozen busses, even if you had to draw from Atlanta to do it.

I find it hard to believe they couldn't figure a way to get the train and buses together at a road Xing. ...unless they were getting such poor info from CSX that it caused bad decisions.

[RRCharlie]

The spectacular derailment referred to in one of the threads happened just north of Jacksonville before Christmas day as we say it that afternoon as we left Jax on # 98 to go to NYP. We arrived on time the next morning!!!!

I saw a report somewhere today, 4 January, that the derailment that fouled up Amtrak and CSX was indeed the one my wife and I saw at the south end of the tracks leading into the Savannah passenger station.

The Amtrak trains take a route called the 'Nahunta cutoff" , former ACL trackage, Jax, Callahan in FLA; Fokston, Nahunta, Jesup, Savannah in GA. Some of the following northbound freights could have been going to Waycross after leaving Folkston, GA.

As far back as 1967 just at the ACL-SAL merger, all their passenger trains used the current Savannah passenger station which was built west of downtown. Every track funnels into that location and when it gets blocked as it did after Christmas, nothing can move through there.

[daveklepper]

The whole shabang is explained by lack of David Gunn. He would have probably gotten to the area as quickly as he could under the circumstances and taken charge.

[paulstecyna21]

i did find out that the trains did make it to their destination and this actually pushed people to fly instead of taking amtrak to points north and south.

[paulstecyna21]

qoute orginally from JOdom
I'm not familiar with the track layout in Savannah, but it's possible that if the Amtrak train had been rerouted to Macon from Jacksonville or Brunswick then sent to Savannah it could have bypassed the derailment.
to view that link go to http://maps.google.com and type in Savannah, georgia and you will see a map of their rail system in georgia.