The NEW and IMPROVED Question Thread (with Index and Page Links)

[CShaveRR]

OK--the photo is of DUPX 912, a three-unit set. The one I described is the 911, which only has the tank car and caboose. Just found out that DuPont also has a "913" set, that is probably identical to the one pictured there.

That "Massachusetts Call/Volunteer Firefighters Association" stuff isn't actually owned by CSX, nor is it restricted to their lines, as we've had those cars in our yard as well. Reporting marks are MCVX. Cars I've seen include several tank cars of different types, a former Conrail insulated box car, and a caboose that may have Illinois Central origins.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

What is the difference between Distributed Power as operated currently by UP, BNSF and other roads and mid-train slaves as operated in the 1960's and 1970's by Southern, ATSF and others?

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

What is the difference between Distributed Power as operated currently by UP, BNSF and other roads and mid-train slaves as operated in the 1960's and 1970's by Southern, ATSF and others?

I'll take a crack at this.

The old remote controll was not that reliable, or flexable as todays distributed power. The electronics and controll equiptment in the day of locotrol and locotrol-2 were cumbersome and not very reliable especially in mountain territory where the signal would be lost and the remote units would loose contact. This was especialy a problem where tunnels were involved. Plus in those days you had masters and slaves and each had it's own equiptment for it's use. The remote units typicaly had a longer short hood due to the extra controll gear and were nicknamed snoots (SP 83xx, UP 33xx,ect.). So for a locotrol remote you had to have a master unit for the head end consist and a remote for the helper consist. Not very flexable.

DPU is a setup that is more integraded with the cab electronics and the software of the locomotive. A DPU unit can be a master or a slave depending on the need. You can also have multiple helper consists with DPU which you could not do with locotrol (at least not independant controll). The communications and signal frequency / modulation schemes are also much improved these days and signal loss between DPU is much less of a problem. So reliability and flexability is much improved with the modern DPU.

[CShaveRR]

If I remember correctly, the controls for the old Locotrol were completely independent of the controls in the lead cab--it was impossible to just tell the slaves to do what the Master was doing. So the engineer was always--very literally--attempting to operate two sets of power.

[Murphy Siding]

On the "Today in railroad history" thread, something came up that you Chicago railfans should be able to answer. I posted something that said 1854 was when Chicago was connected to eastern cities by rail. Nanaimo73 found a map dating from 1850 that appears to show several lines into Chicago. When did Chicago link up with the east coast by rail, and what railroad was it. Thanks

[CShaveRR]

Quite often those old maps will show projections of rail lines, a "promotion" of their intention by either the city or the railroads themselves.

I have a book here, Chicago: Growth of a Metropolis, by Harold M. Mayer and Richard C. Wade, which states:

"In 1850 only one railroad, the Galena and Chicago Union, entered the city. Two years later four more lines were in operation, two connecting with the East, one with the South, and another with the West."

The one connecting with the south is a no-brainer--IC. The other one connecting with the west could be either the Rock Island or the predecessor of the Alton (Or, it might be the Aurora Branch railroad which, for the time being, used G&CU tracks east of Turner Junction). The two from the east are the Lake Shore & Michigan Southern and the Michigan Central. The caption on an 1851 MC timetable (which shows the line going as far west as Michigan City, with steamer connections between New Buffalo and Chicago) suggests that the MC arrived in Chicago the following year.

The book also tells about the battle at Grand Crossing, where the IC had to lay its tracks across the route of the LS&MS under cover of darkness after overpowering their guards. Since the MC and IC had parallel routes into Chicago at this point ("point" meaning location, not necessarily time), it seems likely that LS&MS was the first in from the east, in either 1851 or 1852.

I think we'll have to have the experts on the specific railroads named (NYC, RI, IC, Alton, CB&Q) come up with the precise dates when their predecessors hit the city.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Mike, One of my best steam pictures I ever took was of the 3985 in Gerlach,Nv. opening the "cylinder cocks" wide open after sitting for a water refill. The steam sprayed out over 100' feet on either side of her. I remember thinking to myself..Man that could really [censored] someone up good if they were standing near that. Although out there they really let it loose where the only thing in danger is sagebrush (the state tree I think [(-D]). Unfortunately it is a print so I can't post it.

In the 1960's World War II movie "The Train", which starred Burt Lancaster, there was a scene where a French engineer did exactly that to a squad of German soldiers. Can't remember what happened to the engineer in the movie, but if done in real life he probably would have been shot.

[Anonymous]

I found some more info on Fire Training Trains. [:)]


http://www.traingod.railfan.net/fire.html


This is not the Dupont Training Train but another such train.

[Murphy Siding]

Did all E units have steam boilers? If a railroad had A-B-A e-units MU'd together, were all 3 steam boilers used at the same time?

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mark_W._Hemphill

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

On the "Today in railroad history" thread, something came up that you Chicago railfans should be able to answer. I posted something that said 1854 was when Chicago was connected to eastern cities by rail. Nanaimo73 found a map dating from 1850 that appears to show several lines into Chicago. When did Chicago link up with the east coast by rail, and what railroad was it. Thanks

Murphy: While the Lake Shore and the Michigan Southern (separate and competing companies) arrived Chicago from the east within one day of each other in February 1852, forming a rail link from the western shores of Lake Erie to Chicago, a rail link to New York City was not completed until the Toledo, Norwalk and Cleveland Railroad Company completed its line from Toledo eastward to Cleveland on January 24, 1853. All of these lines were merged into New York Central at various times.

Here's a timeline for Chicago railroads:
http://www.encyclopedia.chicagohistory.org/pages/1461.html

And a history of the Lake Shore & Michigan Southern and its predecessors:
http://www.s363.com/dkny/lsms.html

Thanks for the links. That's what I like about history-nothing is ever as black and white as it seems.

[Anonymous]

What type of material is used on the wear surface of pantographs to avoid damaging catenary? Is it impregnated with some type of lubricant or do catenary systems have lubricators? Does heat become a problem on high speed Euro trains and how do they deal with it?

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

The contact strips on pantograph shoes contain a graphite paste which both improves electrical contact and provides lubrication.

[Anonymous]

Another website with some info on the fire training train.

http://www.erie.gov/depts/lepc/whistle_stop_cars.asp

[CShaveRR]

Just had AMOX 911 (another training tank car) come through town yesterday. It travels solo--no accompanying box cars or cabooses. First time I've seen this one since BP took over Amoco; it has a pretty flashy paint job.

[chad thomas]

Don't know if this question is either new or improved....but...

How much does the typical freight truck (with wheels) weigh?

[Anonymous]

A few people were discussing types of railcars lately in another thread. Here is a quote from one of them:


Posted by Modelcar Posted: 02 Feb 2006, 16:30:18

....It just happens to remind me of a railroad car designed specifically to carry Chevrolet Vegas {and on their nose end too}, back in the 70's.....Each section on both sides hinged down and the car was moved up on it and fastened and then each section was raised up and connected in place and in so doing the cars were hauled standing on their noses {front ends}....and all inclosed inside the rail car.

End of Quote.

After reading this post I knew I had a Frisco All Aboard magazine that showed this type of railcar on the cover and spoke about it in an article. The magazine is dated August 1972 Vol. 6, No. 5. The magazine also listed the number of issues printed as "Circulation 17,500."

Now let me make a quote from that magazine and article:


General Motors, the nation's largest auto manufacturer, has developed a new concept in movement of their compact car, the Vega. These units are moving in a completely enclosed rail car called the Vert-APac, as shown on the front cover of this issue. The Vert-A-Pac car hauls 30 of these specialy-designed, 169-inch Vegas in a nosedown position completely out of sight behind hinged rail car sides which serve as a ramp for loading and unloading.

Here is a link to give you an idea of how these cars looked.

http://www.railgoat.railfan.net/spcars/byclass/flat/f070-58a.htm

Another link showing Vegas on the car before shutting the door. It is at the bottom of the page so just scroll all the way down.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2060657







The paragraph continues . . . Additionally, General Motors, served as a co-developer of the Stac-Pac concept, which features four containers riding on a bolster-equipped flat car, each container carrying three full sized automobiles stacked three high for a total of 12 units per car. The containers are mechanically loaded and unloaded. Stac-Pac, however, is still in the experimental stage.

End of quote from the article.


Here is a link showing parts of old Stac-Pac cars used to make a barn.

http://www.railimages.com/gallery/stephenschott

The remains of SSW Stac-Pac cars made into a building.

http://espee.railfan.net/picindex/freightcars/art_fisher_ssw-stac-pac.html

FINALLY, I found a photo of a Stac-Pac flatcar with containers. [:)] (Notice all the railroads on the containers are all now fallen flags [:(] [V] )

http://freight.railfan.ca/ttx/ttsx803092.jpg


I believe all of the Vert-A-Pac railcars have been converted to other styles of autocarriers. So they and the Stac-Pac containers are now pretty much just history. [:(]

[Modelcar]

....Thanks Jim for the update info on the Vega carriers we had in discussion.

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by up829

What type of material is used on the wear surface of pantographs to avoid damaging catenary? Is it impregnated with some type of lubricant or do catenary systems have lubricators? Does heat become a problem on high speed Euro trains and how do they deal with it?

Depends where you are.
In the UK the pan contact strip is carbon graphite, so it's self lubricating.
In Europe I've seen both aluminum and copper alloy contact strips that have lubrication systems where a bit of grease is applied when the pan rises and falls due to the change in the height of the contact wire changing.
I've heard the Japanese do some scary things.

Heat is not a problem because the contact wire is staggered to prevent it from riding on the same spot on the pan, and the strip is a few feet above the top of the train where there's always a nice cooling wind at high speed.

[88gta350]

Here's a newbie question.....

How do I find out a train's number? Let's say I'm railfanning in unfamiliar territory and all I know is the location, time, and locomotive number. How can I figure out the train number? And what if I don't even know the technical name for the line I'm on but only know the geographical location?

Another for example: There are typically two trains that go past my house every day. It is a dozen or so mile long branch line (NS) that serves a number of industries along the way. The trains run Monday to Friday, minus holidays. Do these trains have a number, and if so how can I figure it out?

[edblysard]

There is no published train ID available to the general public...most timetables dont assign numbers either, it will depend on what type of train, and what it does.
A lot depends on what railroad is running the train,,,UP seems to like letters followed by numbers...
EW60 is a local yard to yard transfer from Englewood to PTRA where I work.
EngleWood 60...

BNSF seems to like a lot of letters...
LRPT...Little Rock to the Port Terminal an inbound general freight.

Your best bet to get an ID would be to approach the crew if you can find them working near a public access, and ask.
Explain who you are and why you want the info, most likely they will give you the info, a timetable and some of their old paper works to make sense out of it.

Ed

[Anonymous]

Last weekend we had an ice storm in the area. I never heard an official amount but the bed of my pickup had a good 3 to 4 inches in it. [:0] It started late Friday night with freezing rain and continued off and on most of the night. The trains were still running but crews were wanting lots of fusees.

In the yard the MOW crews were lighting an oil [?] of some sort under the rails in the hump yard. They also lighted some under the rails on the mainlines. There were no switches near where they were lighting them on the mainlines. In the hump yard switches were near the fires. Every so often the small fires would flare up 5 or 6 feet in the air then settle back down to just a flame of a few inches.

What type of oil did they use? Was this oil in a contain or pot like the highway maintence crews used to use? It did burn a while and also produced a smell. I had a feeling of maybe this used to be like the old time yard when steam engines were in use, lots of smoke and smells. [:)]

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by 88gta350

Here's a newbie question.....

How do I find out a train's number? Let's say I'm railfanning in unfamiliar territory and all I know is the location, time, and locomotive number. How can I figure out the train number? And what if I don't even know the technical name for the line I'm on but only know the geographical location?

Another for example: There are typically two trains that go past my house every day. It is a dozen or so mile long branch line (NS) that serves a number of industries along the way. The trains run Monday to Friday, minus holidays. Do these trains have a number, and if so how can I figure it out?

A scanner would be your friend. That and time. Eventually you'll be able to put together the information you hear on the scanner with what you see. The trains are undoubtedly in contact with a dispatcher at some point, and that will be your source. Do a search for local scanner frequencies, or look through the national databases for some ideas. Many railroads are using "legacy" channels - left over from a previous owner of that track. It could help to know the history of a specific line... A good rail atlas will help you immeasurably in unfamiliar territory. I still have one from the 70's that I travel with - before merger mania set in. The new one I have has previous owners listed, and even shows abandoned lines.

That local you see M-F will have a symbol, and will likely get its permission to occupy the track from the DS via a track warrant, Form D, EC-1 or whatever NS uses. Unless they get it by phone, it'll be on one of the local NS frequencies. If you know the geography of the line you'll get to know the RR shorthand for landmarks/control points. Shouldn't take long to correlate the track warrant with the passing of the train. The lead engine number will be included in the track warrant, too.

Many CSX symbols are available on Bullsheet.com, although they may be dated. I haven't looked for the equivalent NS info.

Or, you can strike up a friendship with a local RR employee, or check with local model/railfan groups or hobby shops. They may already have what you want to know.

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Last weekend we had an ice storm in the area. I never heard an official amount but the bed of my pickup had a good 3 to 4 inches in it. [:0] It started late Friday night with freezing rain and continued off and on most of the night. The trains were still running but crews were wanting lots of fusees.

In the yard the MOW crews were lighting an oil [?] of some sort under the rails in the hump yard. They also lighted some under the rails on the mainlines. There were no switches near where they were lighting them on the mainlines. In the hump yard switches were near the fires. Every so often the small fires would flare up 5 or 6 feet in the air then settle back down to just a flame of a few inches.

What type of oil did they use? Was this oil in a contain or pot like the highway maintence crews used to use? It did burn a while and also produced a smell. I had a feeling of maybe this used to be like the old time yard when steam engines were in use, lots of smoke and smells. [:)]

Kerosene http://www.aldonco.com/catalog_category.asp?sec=3&cat=91&subid=91

Very similar to the old highway smudge pots ......older switch heaters used kerosene or a mixture of waste/journal oil that was initially ignited by gasoline or naptha....

These little portable switch heaters are more common than you think.[:D]

[Anonymous]

Here is a link from the previous post about switch heaters.

http://www.aldonco.com/catalog_category.asp?sec=3&cat=91&subid=91

The one I saw looked different but somewhat along the same lines.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

Last weekend we had an ice storm in the area. I never heard an official amount but the bed of my pickup had a good 3 to 4 inches in it. [:0] It started late Friday night with freezing rain and continued off and on most of the night. The trains were still running but crews were wanting lots of fusees.

In the yard the MOW crews were lighting an oil [?] of some sort under the rails in the hump yard. They also lighted some under the rails on the mainlines. There were no switches near where they were lighting them on the mainlines. In the hump yard switches were near the fires. Every so often the small fires would flare up 5 or 6 feet in the air then settle back down to just a flame of a few inches.

What type of oil did they use? Was this oil in a contain or pot like the highway maintence crews used to use? It did burn a while and also produced a smell. I had a feeling of maybe this used to be like the old time yard when steam engines were in use, lots of smoke and smells. [:)]

Kerosene http://www.aldonco.com/catalog_category.asp?sec=3&cat=91&subid=91

Very similar to the old highway smudge pots ......older switch heaters used kerosene or a mixture of waste/journal oil that was initially ignited by gasoline or naptha....

These little portable switch heaters are more common than you think.[:D]

This is a subject not very common down here. This is only the second ice storm I can remember in the last 5 or 6 years. If we have ice, snow, or sleet it usually is just a one day affair most of the time.

How do these heaters effect the track? Does the open flame lessen the life of the rail? Why are they put where there is not a switch?

I must say, since this is not a common occurance here in the winter, I did find it interesting to watch the crews put them out and light them. [^]

[trainfan1221]

It's something to see when the track heaters are on, weird seeing flames on the rail like that. Another thing NJTransit does if there is impending snow is turn certain trainsets around so the engine will lead going down to clear the track rather than the cab car. Probably a well thought out safety precaution.

[Anonymous]

I just wanted to remind you people about this thread.

Please use it. Don't forget about the Index with the page links either. In the future they could be very useful in helping to find info we discuss in this thread. [:)]

[Murphy Siding]

Today, I encountered two trains crossing the same street on 2 seperate tracks, about 200' apart. (Bonus day!).On the first track, the crossing lights came on long before the train got to the crossing. The second track is used predominately by a slow speed switcher operation. The crossing lights didn't come on until pokey was a whole lot closer to the crossing. How are these lights set up, as far as timing, and who determines the correct set-up? Thanks

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Grade crossing signals are generally set up to provide 30 seconds of warning before the train reaches the crossing. The activation circuit is set up based on the average speed of the train on that track and is the responsibility of the railroad's signal department. In the situation you described, one line may be an industrial lead with a speed limit of 15 MPH and the other line may be a running track (main, branch, etc.) with a speed limit of 40 MPH or so.

[jockellis]

G'day, Y'all,
Does anyone know how much money the owner of a rail car gets for its use? Is it called a per diem? And does the age of a car still factor into the rate earned?