Today in Railroad history.....last updated ..... March 22nd...on page 19..

[nanaimo73]

Jan 30, 2001- Ogle Winston Link, passed away at the age of 86.
http://www.linkmuseum.org/
http://www.spikesys.com/Trains/owlink.html

Jan 30, 2002 DME receives final approval from the Surface Transportation Board for its 1.5 billion dollar expansion into the Powder River Basin coal fields. This project is now at $2.2 billion.

[Murphy Siding]

Today, Jan. 31st, in railroad history

1874: Jesse James gang robs a train at Gads Hill, Missouri.

1932: US railway unions accept 10% reduction in wages.

1935: Union Pacific streamliner M-10000 is placed in dailey service between Salina,KS and Kansas City MO.

1948: Norfolk Southern becomes a freight only railroad.

Misc. January:

1966:Trains begins John G. Kneiling's "Professional iconoclast" column.

1968: John G. Kneiling's treatise "True Train" , in Trains magazine prophecizes U.S. network of only 50,000 route miles.

1969: Last Alco built,Newberg & South Shore t6 switcher 1017.

1971: John W. Barringer named CEO of Boston & maine.

Anybody else?

[dmoore74]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Today, Jan. 31st, in railroad history

1948: Norfolk & Western becomes a freight only railroad.

Didn't Norfolk & Western run passenger trains right up to the inception of Amtrak in 1971?

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

QUOTE: Originally posted by dmoore74

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Today, Jan. 31st, in railroad history

1948: Norfolk & Western becomes a freight only railroad.

Didn't Norfolk & Western run passenger trains right up to the inception of Amtrak in 1971?

Yes, N&W had 4 passenger trains running when Amtrak took over.
89 Pocahontas 3, 4 Norfolk-Cincinnati Discontinued
90 Birmingham Special 17, 18 Lynchburg-Bristol Discontinued
91 City of Decatur 121, 124 Chicago-Decatur Discontinued
92 Wabash Cannonball 301, 304 St. Louis-Detroit Discontinued

It was Norfolk Southern that dropped passenger trains in 1948.

http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/001/138fddcg.asp

Yes, you're both correct. My eyes saw Norfolk Southern. My brain decided that 1948 was pre-merger, and converted it to Norfolk & Western.[D)] You'd think my eyes and brain would communicate better.[;)]

[nanaimo73]

That Norfolk Southern was such an interesting railroad, especially with all of those Baldwins.
http://yardlimit.railfan.net/baldwindiesels/ns/
Now it gets overlooked a lot because of the new Norfolk Southern.
Maybe our Editor from Carolina could write an article on them.

Jan 31, 1984- Silver Star and Silver Meteor cut back to Tampa, from JacksonvilleSt. Petersburg.

Jan 31, 1995- Union Pacific withdraws $3.6 billion bid for ATSF, allowing BN to purchase railway. That merger would have been curtains for SP.

Jan 31, 2000- Electric passenger train service to Boston opens. Too bad that wasn't done in the 1970s.

Jan 31, 2005- Norfolk Southern freight train derails in East Deer Township (near Pittsburgh). 13 of 83 cars derailed, some of these containing hazardous anhydrous floride.

[Murphy Siding]

OK I'm home for lunch, and had time to locate my copy of The Historical Guide to North American Railroads by George H. Drury, a Kalmbach book[:)], and one of my favorites.[:D]
The *old* Norfolk Southern was a line in N.C. and Va., from around 1883. Through a couple of changes, it came to be owned by Southern. In 1981, the name was changed to Carolina & Northwestern, so that the Norfolk Southern name could be used by the new, merged company. I would presume that the whole line disappeared into NS since then? They ran their last passenger runs in 1948, using gasoline-powered rail cars.
Norfolk & Western, on the other hand,.......see post by nanaimo73 above. Thanks to those who pointed this error out, here and in e-mails.[:I]

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

I would presume that the whole line disappeared into NS since then?

Yes. The Feb 2004 Trains has a terrific Map of the Month (page 56-57) showing NS and all of the other railroads that make up todays Norfolk Southern.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Jan 31, 1995- Union Pacific withdraws $3.6 billion bid for ATSF, allowing BN to purchase railway. That merger would have been curtains for SP.

Why did UP back out? It would seem that ATSF would have been a better *prize* than SP. Anybody have some background on that? Thanks

[dmoore74]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Jan 31, 1995- Union Pacific withdraws $3.6 billion bid for ATSF, allowing BN to purchase railway. That merger would have been curtains for SP.

Why did UP back out? It would seem that ATSF would have been a better *prize* than SP. Anybody have some background on that? Thanks

At least part of it was strategy by UP to force BN to pay a much higher price. UP most likely realized that it would be very difficult to win government approval and would very likely have to grant lots of concessions to other railroads.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dmoore74

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Jan 31, 1995- Union Pacific withdraws $3.6 billion bid for ATSF, allowing BN to purchase railway. That merger would have been curtains for SP.

Why did UP back out? It would seem that ATSF would have been a better *prize* than SP. Anybody have some background on that? Thanks

At least part of it was strategy by UP to force BN to pay a much higher price. UP most likely realized that it would be very difficult to win government approval and would very likely have to grant lots of concessions to other railroads.

That makes sense. I can't imagine that the industry would have stood still fo UP merging both ATSF and SP.

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by dmoore74

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Jan 31, 1995- Union Pacific withdraws $3.6 billion bid for ATSF, allowing BN to purchase railway. That merger would have been curtains for SP.

Why did UP back out? It would seem that ATSF would have been a better *prize* than SP. Anybody have some background on that? Thanks

At least part of it was strategy by UP to force BN to pay a much higher price. UP most likely realized that it would be very difficult to win government approval and would very likely have to grant lots of concessions to other railroads.

That makes sense. I can't imagine that the industry would have stood still fo UP merging both ATSF and SP.

This was before UP went after SP, so they would have taken the ATSF and the SP would have gone under. I tried to do a "what if" thread about that, but it crashed and burned.
http://www.trains.com/community/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38791

[Murphy Siding]

Today, Feb 1st , in railroad history......

1968:NYC and PRR merge to form PennCentral. What a disaster from the start.

1979" Southern conveys operation of Southern Cresent to Amtrak.

1989: ATSF sells TP&W to new operators.

Anybody else?

[nanaimo73]

Feb 1, 1995- Wisconsin Central takes over Algoma Central. Algoma Central had one of my favorite paint schemes, very much like Erie Lackawanna.
http://algomacentral.railfan.net/algoma1.htm

Feb 1, 1996- ATSF freight runs away and derails on Cajon Pass, killing 2 crewmen. This may have been the one that led to all of the fencing at the top of the hill.

Feb 1, 1998- Union Pacific merged into Southern Pacific Transportation Co, and renamed Union Pacific Railroad Co. Several years earlier SP had been merged into the D&RGW, and the D&RGW changed its name into Southern Pacific Transportation Co.

Feb 1, 1998- Union Pacific begins directional running between Dexter, Missouri and Houston, Texas using both former SSW and MP routes.

Feb 1, 1998- Berea Tower, west of Cleveland, closes. I would like to spend a day there.
http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=1&S=11&Z=17&X=1070&Y=11452&W
Norfolk Southern has the Lakefront Line and the Chicago Line while CSX has the Cleveland Short Line and the Indianapolis Line (all former NYC).
http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/locThumbs.aspx?id=101941

Feb 1, 2004- 882 mile extension opens in Australia north of Alice Springs, on line to Darwin. Ghan passenger train runs with 43 cars.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73



Jan 31, 1984- Silver Star and Silver Meteor cut back to Tampa, from Jacksonville.

Huh? Do you mean cut back TO Jacksonville FROM Tampa? To be cut back the way you have it, the train would have to be coming out of Miami. Or am I having brainlock (again)?

[nanaimo73]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73



Jan 31, 1984- Silver Star and Silver Meteor cut back to Tampa, from Jacksonville.

Huh? Do you mean cut back TO Jacksonville FROM Tampa? To be cut back the way you have it, the train would have to be coming out of Miami. Or am I having brainlock (again)?

No, that was my brainlock. The trains had been going to St. Petersburg.[D)]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

[h4] 1968:NYC and PRR merge to form PennCentral. What a disaster from the start.

Perhaps a Penn Central thread would be interesting...

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Feb 1, 1995- Wisconsin Central takes over Algoma Central. Algoma Central had one of my favorite paint schemes, very much like Erie Lackawanna.
http://algomacentral.railfan.net/algoma1.htm

A couple years ago, I saw some old,decayed, A-C passenger cars in a railyard in northwest Iowa. It looked like A-C hadn't used them in a long, long time.[xx(]

QUOTE: Feb 1, 1996- ATSF freight runs away and derails on Cajon Pass, killing 2 crewmen. This may have been the one that led to all of the fencing at the top of the hill.

Are these fences to stop trains?!?

QUOTE: Feb 1, 1998- Berea Tower, west of Cleveland, closes. I would like to spend a day there.

Let me know when you do. I can meet you there. Maybe, if we bring our bikes, Terminal Tower can show us around.[;)]

[Murphy Siding]

1908: P&S changes name to SP&S (Spokane, Portland & Seattle). Did J.J. Hill control SP&S at this point?

[GN-Rick]

1890. The St. Paul, Minneapolis & Manitoba is leased for 999 years to the
newly formed entity, The Great Northern Railway. The St. P, M&M was the
corporate predecessor of the GN. On the SP&S question, I do believe that
Hill was still in control at this point.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by GN-Rick

1890. The St. Paul, Minneapolis & Manitoba is leased for 999 years to the
newly formed entity, The Great Northern Railway. The St. P, M&M was the
corporate predecessor of the GN. On the SP&S question, I do believe that
Hill was still in control at this point.

Was StP,M & M the line that went west to around Fargo,ND, or did it go more northerly, like toward Brainerd, MN?

[Murphy Siding]

Today, Feb. 2nd in railroad history...

1886: Louisville & Nashville, Cincinnati & Southern, and several other southern railroads send representitives to Atlanta, where they agree to re-gauge their lines. (I *think* they were 5'-0" gauge at the time?). They agree on a mass conversion of roughly 13,000(!) miles of track on May 31st/June 1st, 1886.(!!)
How in the world did they do this in only 2 days?

Anybody else?

[GN-Rick]

The Manitoba, as it was known, was actually the entire eastern core of the
Great Northern as it became. The 'Great Northern' was formed as an entirely
new corporate entity to consolidate the railroad holdings of James Hill and
the directors and investors in with him. Being as Hill had eyes for expanding
to the West Coast for the purposes of the Oriental trade and its riches, the
decision was made to create a new corporate identity to persue this expansion.
The Manitoba was seen as too regional in scope (remember, J. J. Hill really
knew how to promote his business) so they came up with a name that implies
few limits.

[Murphy Siding]

Today, Feb. 3rd, in railroad history....

1973: Providence & Worcester resumes indepedant operation. The source doesn't say on whom it was dependant. Was P&W run by one of the Canadian roads?

Anybody else?

Edited to get the "H" out of Worcestor[:)]

[dmoore74]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Today, Feb. 3rd, in railroad history....

1973: Providence & Worchester resumes indepedant operation. The source doesn't say on whom it was dependant. Was P&W run by one of the Canadian roads?

Anybody else?

No "h", it's Worcester. The Providence & Worcester had been leased by the New Haven and the lease was assumed by Penn Central. When the bankrupt Penn Central defaulted on lease payments the major stockholders made plans for independent operation. It took a couple of years and some legal battling but the P & W was finally set free.

[SALfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Today, Feb. 2nd in railroad history...

1886: Louisville & Nashville, Cincinnati & Southern, and several other southern railroads send representitives to Atlanta, where they agree to re-gauge their lines. (I *think* they were 5'-0" gauge at the time?). They agree on a mass conversion of roughly 13,000(!) miles of track on May 31st/June 1st, 1886.(!!)
How in the world did they do this in only 2 days?

Anybody else?

There were several different guages in use in the South before the War Between the States. Don't know if the ones you mentioned were 5-foot gauge or not. There were even instances of a railroad not being continuous through a city, with different gauges on each side, if stuff I've read can be believed.

This is just a guess, but I'd think probably only the main lines were done quickly, with yards and branch lines taking longer. If anyone knows for sure, please speak up.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dmoore74

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Today, Feb. 3rd, in railroad history....

1973: Providence & Worchester resumes indepedant operation. The source doesn't say on whom it was dependant. Was P&W run by one of the Canadian roads?

Anybody else?

No "h", it's Worcester. The Providence & Worcester had been leased by the New Haven and the lease was assumed by Penn Central. When the bankrupt Penn Central defaulted on lease payments the major stockholders made plans for independent operation. It took a couple of years and some legal battling but the P & W was finally set free.

In a deal like that, would a railroad like P&W just end up getting "stuck" for the defaulted lease payments, or did Conrail go back and have to bring the payments up to current?

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by JOdom

QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

Today, Feb. 2nd in railroad history...

1886: Louisville & Nashville, Cincinnati & Southern, and several other southern railroads send representitives to Atlanta, where they agree to re-gauge their lines. (I *think* they were 5'-0" gauge at the time?). They agree on a mass conversion of roughly 13,000(!) miles of track on May 31st/June 1st, 1886.(!!)
How in the world did they do this in only 2 days?

Anybody else?

There were several different guages in use in the South before the War Between the States. Don't know if the ones you mentioned were 5-foot gauge or not. There were even instances of a railroad not being continuous through a city, with different gauges on each side, if stuff I've read can be believed.

This is just a guess, but I'd think probably only the main lines were done quickly, with yards and branch lines taking longer. If anyone knows for sure, please speak up.

I'm sure that it was actually done over a longer period of time. What I can't picture, is the fact that all rolling stock, from locomotives all the way down to hand cars, would have had to be re-gauged also. How would that be done?

[nanaimo73]

A lot of the locomotives, cars and yards would have been done before the big changeover, and the rest afterwards. If you were going from 5'0" to 4'8.5", you would put in more spikes on the inside of one rail beforehand and then all you would do is pull out the old spikes and slide the rail over a bit and spike the outside. I don't think tieplates were used back then.
Illinois Central did all 550 miles of their southern end on July 29, 1881.

[Murphy Siding]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

A lot of the locomotives, cars and yards would have been done before the big changeover, and the rest afterwards. If you were going from 5'0" to 4'8.5", you would put in more spikes on the inside of one rail beforehand and then all you would do is pull out the old spikes and slide the rail over a bit and spike the outside. I don't think tieplates were used back then.
Illinois Central did all 550 miles of their southern end on July 29, 1881.

Wouldn't you have 1/2 of all your rolling stock unusable for an extended period of time? From the day you started regauging the rolling stock, up until D-day, 1/2 of the equipment would be old gauge, 1/2 would be new guage. The day after the rails were done being moved, 1/2 the equipment is the wrong gauge again. It sounds like an operational nightmare.

[nanaimo73]

You could have all of your new cars on order for a year or two in advance built in the new gauge and lease them out to other railroads until you regauged. Perhaps a lot of the old equipment was not regauged and just scrapped.

[chad thomas]

I read somewhere on this forum about a European operation that changes guages along the route and they simply swap out the trucks. Don't know if this has anything to do with anything, just thought I'd throw it out there.