Why should Amtrak cook there food ON the Train When they could just order Ahead and have catering?

[Anonymous]

Delivered in hot tins to the next station....They could contract with catering companys enroute and that would add a regional flait to the train routes as real home cooking could be enjoyed enroute. Imagine Real Soul Food On the Southern Cresent! Fresh Lobster On the DownEaster! Polish Perrogies at midnight thru Cleveland on the Late Shore Limited!

[jeaton]

When you can figure out a way to have the meals served at the usual hours for meals even when the train is running 2 hours late or later, you have a concept. In fact, if you can figure a way to get the meals from the place of preparation to the place where it will be consumed on the train without delaying the train or without the expense of some one to deliver the meal to the customer, you may have a real idea.

By the way, to whom do I complain if the meal is not prepared to my satisifaction?

[CrazyDiamond]

It depends on the situation, and the companies involved. My wife works for a professional services catering company, and to make a long story short, her company is doing very well and is very happy, their clients are very happy, and the customers are their clients are very happy.

However I have seen where some company's had their food cooked by their own staff and it was awesome,...both the food and the service. Then for reasons from above, that was outsourced to a catering company and it was crap from there on. I have see in a few cases where they reversed their decision a year later, but regretfully it was never the same.

I have also seen the opposite...where the company staff run kitchen(s) was just not cutting it...people complaining that sort of thing....then one day a whole new cafeteria....outsourced to a company and it was a great success....awesome food, awesome service !

I think at the end of the day, it depends on (a) the catering company chosen, (b) the person(s) running the kitchen, and (c) attitude of all parties involved.

[Anonymous]

Catering Companies already do this.. They have "Roach" Coaches that are heated to keep the Food Warm. Then the Stations could have heater ovens that keep the food Warm and then just serve it Buffet Style on the train. Hey if it works for Aunt Martha's Wedding it can work for Amtrak.
I am sure that Amtrak Passengers are less discrimnating then Aunt Martha..

[jeaton]

Terminal Tower. Once again I see a clear indication of someone who has not ridden on a passenger train. You and anybody else that thinks the average passenger will successful navigate themselves from a serving line to a place to sit and not wind up putting food in the laps of fellow passengers are in some sort of dream world.

I am sure that if Aunt Martha's wedding reception was moving at 79 miles an hour around curves and over bumps in the road, she might think twice about a buffet style dinner.

[UPTRAIN]

That's true, what if you have a catering company out of St. Louis, MO they're to serve breakfast to the train at roughly 8:00 A.M. at the Amtrak Station. Problem: this was 2 weeks ago and the train was running 10 hours late. Are you going to get that catering company to load up and drive to some remote siding in Arkansas south of Little Rock and serve the passengers, because if you don't come up with one close by, you are SOL. Plus, it's probably more expensive, and that's something they are not great at handling currently.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

That's true, what if you have a catering company out of St. Louis, MO they're to serve breakfast to the train at roughly 8:00 A.M. at the Amtrak Station. Problem: this was 2 weeks ago and the train was running 10 hours late. Are you going to get that catering company to load up and drive to some remote siding in Arkansas south of Little Rock and serve the passengers, because if you don't come up with one close by, you are SOL. Plus, it's probably more expensive, and that's something they are not great at handling currently.

[#ditto]

What he said!

Mike in Tulsa
BNSF Cherokee Sub

[Hugh Jampton]

Apparantly one clued up passenger on a very late running train had the idea to order a pizza, and have it delivered when the train stopped at the station (he rang a pizzaria in the town he thought the train would be at in half an hour).
Well, bellieve it or not when the train pulled into the station there was the pizza delivery kid waiting on the platform. The bloke paid the kid and returned to his seat to eat.
The problem is he didn't order enough for everybody and was nearly assaulted by other hungry passengers.

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

Apparantly one clued up passenger on a very late running train had the idea to order a pizza, and have it delivered when the train stopped at the station (he rang a pizzaria in the town he thought the train would be at in half an hour).
Well, bellieve it or not when the train pulled into the station there was the pizza delivery kid waiting on the platform. The bloke paid the kid and returned to his seat to eat.
The problem is he didn't order enough for everybody and was nearly assaulted by other hungry passengers.

Great story!

If a passenger can do it, why can't Amtrak?

Sure, it won't be easy, but unless you think everyone at Amtrak is a dullard, why can't this happen?

I haven't heard one arguement that's a show-stopper. There are some obstacles, but nothing that can't be worked out. People need to stop the knee jerk reaction to change and put on their "thinking caps" (as they used to say on Romper Room - anyone remember that?)

I think there is great opportunity here for "Better" and "Cheaper"

So, let's have a discussion of the barriers and possible solutions.

Barriers, anyone?

[tree68]

Might work in some markets. However the Here to There Express passes through Podunk Hollow about dinner time (if it's on time). Does Podunk Hollow even have a pizza shop? And what happens if the Express is running 4 hours late? Who pays the premium for the staff at the pizza shop to stick around (and do you want pizza at 11 pm)? Don't tell me that they can just buy supper from someplace else up the line - the passengers may not want dinner from Joe's Greasy Spoon in East Nowhere, which happens to be where the Express will be at dinner time.

Not every place has a catering company capable of handling the business (especially out on the plains). And the actual performance of the trains is not regular enough to allow dependence on such support. People want their lunch at noon. A meal prepared on the train (or at least available on the train) at noon, regardless of where the train may be, is what the customer wants.

Now, if you work the airline model, where the meals are prepared before being loaded on the plane, you might have something. But I'm sure that Amtrak is already doing something along that line. The entire meal may not be cooked, but the materials are placed on-board well in advance of the planned meal.

Of course, Fred Harvey could always go back into business, opening lunch rooms in stations....

[oltmannd]

I read a blurb recently that both 'frigs quit on the Empire Builder recently and they had to trash all the food. They fed the passengers by ordering fast food ahead and having it delivered.

You're generally only talking about a couple hundered meals. I don't know if you'd have a couple of places "on retainer" in various locations in case the train was later, or, if you'd have the regular caterer just prepare the meals a bit early and have them drive to meet the train a stop or two up the line. Might depend on the route.

The "Fred Harvey" model is what the GAO has suggested - the 'hound does that.

[jeaton]

I took the time to read the GAO reports on Amtrak food service, as well as several other audit reports prepared by JayEtta and her gang. They are quite good at finding problems there, but the recommendations for change aren't much better than "Management has to improve".

We can throw out ideas from now until the Gulf of Mexico freezes over, but until a there is a real plan with some crunched numbers, it is nothing more than talk.

By the way, Amtrak has a cost plus contract with a catering firm to acquire food, beverages and dining supplies and to run the commissaries. No doubt that was done with the idea of replacing high cost railroad personnel and the other standard reasons for out sourcing. I have no idea how things worked before outsourcing, but the present arrangement isn't anything to write home about. The numbers indicate that the food cost to sales ratio is about 50%, when anybody in the restaurant business would tell you that the ratio should be around 33%. The current contract expires in 2006.

Be careful what you wish for.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Hugh Jampton

Apparantly one clued up passenger on a very late running train had the idea to order a pizza, and have it delivered when the train stopped at the station (he rang a pizzaria in the town he thought the train would be at in half an hour).
Well, bellieve it or not when the train pulled into the station there was the pizza delivery kid waiting on the platform. The bloke paid the kid and returned to his seat to eat.
The problem is he didn't order enough for everybody and was nearly assaulted by other hungry passengers.

It's a good thing I decided to read some of the responses here before saying something. That is exactly what I was thinking.

Hello, Dominoes?

[swg]

I suppose Amtrak could have a list of food vendors for each stop, then passengers that wanted something could choose from the list for that stop. The orders would be paid in advance and phoned ahead, then someone with a van would cruise around and gather up the food. It would be possible to get any fast food, plus a limited selection of actual meals. There would have to be a slight markup for the ground service, but Amtrak wouldn't lose a nickel on food.

Another idea would be to have passengers select their dining car meals in advance so there was an accurate count, then load them airline style at pre determined stops.

As a last resort, they could return to the early days of the Harvey House restaurants. Make it more like Greyhound.[:0][xx(]

Is the food line item really what is dragging Amtrak down, and keeping them from being profitable?

[dharmon]

I'm telling you....just have them order ahead....put the bag on a trainorder hoop and grab it as the train goes by....no stops needed...

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

I'm telling you....just have them order ahead....put the bag on a trainorder hoop and grab it as the train goes by....no stops needed...

Might need old mail bags and an RPO hook....

[jeaton]

Estimate on the loss on food service is about $80 million per year. That is sales including the credit from sleeper fares, less payments to Gate Gourmet, Amtrak food service labor costs, food preparation and service equipment cost and crew meals and travel expense.

If the food service personnel were not subject to the Railway Labor Act and food costs were brought down from 50% of sales to say 35%, the loss might be somewhere around $25-30 million.

Jay

[UPTRAIN]

How about what they do with tour buses, stop at the McDonalds, lol. Wouldn't that be funny, street running track in the parking lot, on their marquee it says "TRUCKS, BUSES, AND TRAINS WELCOME!". I would sell tickets to see that.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

I'm telling you....just have them order ahead....put the bag on a trainorder hoop and grab it as the train goes by....no stops needed...

Might need old mail bags and an RPO hook....

I'm afraid that it will be more than the potatoes that are mashed.[:0][;)]



It's nice to be able to count on you to find the numbers Jay, thanks.

So, to put things into perspective, $80 million sounds large, but when compared to the total subsidy of $1.3 billion, it is just over half of one percent. Of course, I could live large for the rest of my life on 10% of the waste.[:p]

[UPTRAIN]

I doubt I would want my New York Style Cheesecake a la mode with the A-1 from my New York Style Strip Steak, lol.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

I'm telling you....just have them order ahead....put the bag on a trainorder hoop and grab it as the train goes by....no stops needed...

Might need old mail bags and an RPO hook....

I'm afraid that it will be more than the potatos that are mashed.[:0][;)]

Might want to pass on the milkshake..................[B)]

[UPTRAIN]

Lol, I was gonna mention a milkshake.

[Big_Boy_4005]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

I doubt I would want my New York Style Cheesecake a la mode with the A-1 from my New York Style Strip Steak, lol.

Normally "cheese steak" is traditional in Philadelphia. [swg]

Now if they just wanted to serve MRE's the mail hook would work fine.[:0][C=:-)][;)] Probably get a deal on em too.[8][:p]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

I doubt I would want my New York Style Cheesecake a la mode with the A-1 from my New York Style Strip Steak, lol.

Normally "cheese steak" is traditional in Philadelphia. [swg]

Now if they just wanted to serve MRE's the mail hook would work fine.[:0][C=:-)][;)] Probably get a deal on em too.[8][:p]

MREs apparently weren't good enough for Katrina's refugees displaced persons, so how could they be good enough for paying passengers?....[;)]

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

How about what they do with tour buses, stop at the McDonalds, lol. Wouldn't that be funny, street running track in the parking lot, on their marquee it says "TRUCKS, BUSES, AND TRAINS WELCOME!". I would sell tickets to see that.

In Windsor Vt, there is a McDonald's trackside where I have seen a number of times a southbound freight stopped so the crew could get a coffee or some food. Of course that's just two guys and not a full load of passengers.

[edblysard]

Dan,
It is no longer politically correct to call them refugees, one must call them victims of Katrina instead, (adds a little more pitiful tone to it....)


Ed

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Big_Boy_4005

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

I doubt I would want my New York Style Cheesecake a la mode with the A-1 from my New York Style Strip Steak, lol.

Normally "cheese steak" is traditional in Philadelphia. [swg]

Now if they just wanted to serve MRE's the mail hook would work fine.[:0][C=:-)][;)] Probably get a deal on em too.[8][:p]

MREs apparently weren't good enough for Katrina's refugees displaced persons, so how could they be good enough for paying passengers?....[;)]

[PBenham]

Well, there are a TON[banghead] of issues here. First, how do you buy out the current food service employees labor contracts, without having to pay dearly in order to void those contracts? second, Catering would work if the TRAINS could run on time, or reasonably close to time, but refer back to the first point. Now,(third) why not order new dining cars with up to date service capabilities, that would alleviate some of the problems (like labor contracts for the workers that survive the cutbacks) But! Now for the hard part[banghead][X-)] who takes the fall if the idea fails, and the new cars @ $ 4.35MM each are on the books and WE are payin' for them. Aye, there's the rub. Oh, for a cold Molson Export in the dome of a CP dome/lounge /observation.( Montreal-Brockville in '82!) We can't bring back experiences like that on Amtrak since a new dome would run MINIMUM $5 MM each!

[upchuck]

Even with the best of intentions and the working out of the logistics of such an
undertaking, I'm afraid it would eventually deteriorate into something tasting like airplane food.[xx(]

[DaveBr]

OOOO,Airplane foood.Sure ,do the same thing for ocean liners.Give everyone a
fishing pole and catch the fi***hey want for dinner.,,(Except Trout)
DaveBr

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

OOOO,Airplane foood.Sure ,do the same thing for ocean liners.Give everyone a
fishing pole and catch the fi***hey want for dinner.,,(Except Trout)
DaveBr

Or better yet....Amtrak could do a winter time "Donner Pass" special........

.......I do wish we could chat longer Clarice, but I'm having an old friend for dinner.......[dinner]......

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by DaveBr

OOOO,Airplane foood.Sure ,do the same thing for ocean liners.Give everyone a
fishing pole and catch the fi***hey want for dinner.,,(Except Trout)
DaveBr

Or better yet....Amtrak could do a winter time "Donner Pass" special........

.......I do wish we could chat longer Clarice, but I'm having an old friend for dinner.......[dinner]......

WATCH OUT Dan or they'll throw you to the WeeeBlows...LOL...

LC