Triple Crown...still with long string of trailers...

[Modelcar]

MP173....I have seen north bound consists but not recently...simply because I'm not in the depot {trail area|, area when it goes through. Last week when I was there to bike on our trail I did catch the south bound..{138 trailers}, and it passed just a bit after the noon hour. I will try to get to the area again some more this week and observe.....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Nora

Kind of a surprise to see that in the midst of all the other largely identical trailers.
.

Heh, it does really "strike you" as it's going past, doesn't it? [:)] You've got all these nearly identical units rolling by...then WHAM! a special paintjob...really surprised me.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173


Anti...since you are in Ft. Wayne, what are the TC operations like. I assume it is a big HUB operation with trains from all directions converging and then shuffled and then outbound trains built. How many tracks are there at the yard? How do they shuffle the cars (on the rails, or off rail)?
ed

Well, I don't know everything, somedays it's even a stretch to claim I know "anything" and more people would probably agree with the latter, on any given day, but, let me try to share what little I know, based upon first hand observation.

If while I blabber you will refer the following, it will make more sense:

this track schematic of Ft Wayne in general:

http://www.trainweb.org/fwarailfan/fwarailmap.gif

And this ariel view of the TC main yard (formerly the PRR's "Piqua" yard:

http://terraserver.microsoft.com/image.aspx?T=4&S=11&Z=16&X=1646&Y=11369&W=3

In the ariel view you can see the yard the way it existed in 2002, which it is largely unchanged, except they have now doubled the lead in track at the west (left ) end of the yard, so that there a dual tracks leading from near mike junction to the yard entry.

Notice the large paved lot just above the balloon tracks, That is the area where they pluck the trailers off the bogeys and set them out for truck pickup. I'll leave it to you to zoom in and out with the terraserver imagery, but of you zoom in on this asphalt area you will answer a lot of your questions, and will see things like the triangular shapes lot at the far east end where the spare bogeys are kept.

Basically, they've got the west end of the old PRR's Piqua yard, from Pontiac street to Anthony Blvd.

At one time I counted the tracks inside the yard, but it's been just long enough that I can't recall the exact number, but "17" is the number I seem to recall., each one plenty long to swllow most TC trains in one, if not two bites

Now, if you will refer to the track schematic diagram, you will see how the TC yard fits into the bigger picture of Ft Wayne rail activity. Notice in black the dual track NS Huntington district running actoss the page from Hugo junction to NE junction,..and the NS Chicago district from the Hadley cutoff to NE Junction.

And the former PRR now C, F& E manline, drawn in blue from the Hadley cutoff on the far left to adams junction and beyond on the right..

Notice the fact that the NS triple crown yard is actually on the CF&E main, totally removed from direct connection with any of the NS mains. Makes for some interesting train watching. There is only one crossover track joining the CF&E with the Huntington district at MIKE junction.

And, even though they have doubled the entry throat to the TC yard , both of those tracks choke down to one AND combine with the CF&E before making their single junction with the Huntington district main ar MIKE junction.

This configuration can lead to some very interesting chess matches, just watching them service the yard AND managing the main ROW's

Particularly when there is a long westbound sitting east of MIKE waiting in the north main, an opposing east bound sitting west of MIKE on the south main, with another behind him occupying the line west of Hugo where the main is single, all waiting for an west bound TC train to arrive from detroit that has to pass the first train mentioned by coming in running left hand on the south main, cross over in front of the second train at Mike to the north main (sitting beside the second train), then shove their cars back through MIKE onto the CF&E main and finally into the TC yard, heh you see a whole lot of payrolled hours slipping by with engineers just sitting and watching, waiting on one train to GTH out of their way.

In fact, any incoming west bound TC train on the Huntington district is going to tie up both mains, since they gotta shove their load a back across MIKE whichever main they come in on. The Piqua Wye only seems to help insoning East bounds shove their loads back into the yard in reverse, and expediting outgoing eastbounds headed away from the yard.

You'd think that with a mess like that,. such ocassions would only happen every so often, wouldn't you? Well, I buy materials from a metal scrapper located in the c r o t c h of the Piqua Wye., and on 2 consecutive visits a week apart recently, I observed the exact same condition arise, with 2 trains waiting on the 3rd to arrive then get out if their way...so...it's not exactly a rare occurance.

It seems to work because CF&E is like a slumber maid at the party. If CF&E volume picked up, they would have a nightmare.

Hope this info was helpful

[MP173]

What a great report. Thanks.

So, there is no way the WB TC from Detroit can make the turn on the Piqua Y? Do the trains have to back into the yard?

Was Piqua Yard at one time the entire width of where the balloon track is? It would have been a pretty good sized yard.

Well, thanks again for the tour. I will study your report later tonight and try and figure it all out.

BTW...NS just ran an eastbound 32Z which I had never seen or heard before. I posted on the Ft Wayne Railfan about it.

ed

[Anonymous]

Interesting how you can still make out the roundhouse location in the Y on Terraserver.

Does anyone know when TC's move through Western Indiana on NS Fort Wayne to St. Louis?
Thanks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173



So, there is no way the WB TC from Detroit can make the turn on the Piqua Y? Do the trains have to back into the yard?

I dunno, I don't work for the RR. But what I can tell you from experiances is , that they claim to be able to bring in trains via the union belt through Drake, and in the back door, but I personally have never seen then do so... And I've seen them in some pretty "clogged up" conditions where I would suspect that if they had any better alternative they would use it.

The Union belt has some pretty squirreley curves, perhaps the TC cars don't play well with the track in that section?

They probably could drive the west bounds in through the wye, if they wanted to, but .....at least in the cases i've witnessed, for what ever reason...they don't want to.

When they are bringing a string of TC cars into the yard, it's not uncommon to see the newly arrived train broken down onto multiple tracks, I guess presorting them by destination. But I'll see the same road power that brought them in,.. backing the string into the yard, dropping several cars on one track, then pulling back out, realigning with a new track, shoving a few onto the second track, sometimes even a 3rd and 4th...

And I guess it's easier to do that shoving the cars as opposed to pulling them...

[Anonymous]

Given what they are paying their "owner operators" and current fuel prices it won't be long and they won't be able to get the trailers to and from the rail.

Not sure if the Wabash HD is being used for Roadrailer service but it is easy to spot as it has an aluminum scuff liner running along the bottom sides of the trailer.

[Modelcar]

...Are the smooth sided trailers running on Triple Crown all of DruaPlate type construction...{those without outside ribs}...?

[MP173]

The "smooth" trailers are actually smooth with rivet trailers...an aluminum sheet every 48" with a double row of rivets running vertically. I dont think they have either sheet trailer or duraplate trailers running on TC...I dont think they could stand the stress.

If you are ever behind a sheet trailer on the road the entire thing has more action than Jennifer Lopez...by that I mean wiggle.

ed

[Modelcar]

....Well, if that is the kind of wiggle it is I should be able to ID it....Ha.

[martin.knoepfel]

Is it possible to shove a 150-trailers-train backwards into the yard?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by martin.knoepfel

Is it possible to shove a 150-trailers-train backwards into the yard?

I'm not a big "car counter", so I couldn't tell you a meaningful answer

What I can tell you is that I've seen them bring in all kinds of trains come in, and get shoved backwards into the yard some of which seemed pretty dog gone long. How many roadrailers in a mile? I've seen them shove mile long trains backwards into that yard (based upon milepost observation)

[Modelcar]

...A 140 trailer TC consist would be roughly 7000' in length...well over the mile mark.

[rrnut282]

I have seen them bring in WB TC trains using the Belt line on occasion. I am only guessing here, but I think the reason they prefer to back in through MIKE is to get to other tracks. I think they can only use track 1 when coming in via the Belt and DRAKE. I only remember seeing 8 tracks for TC to use.

To answer another question, yes they can back almost any sized TC train. There is a six-axle maximum limit on backing (shove) moves, so the engineer must isolate any other unit while switching. About 2 years ago one forgot to isolate the trailing units while shoving around Piqua Wye and pushed several off of the tracks when the "coupling" was made.

I regularly see the NB 264 go by my house anywhere from 9 pm to midnight. That should put it into Piqua Yard an hour later (assuming it doesn't sit somewhere waiting for traffic).

Another source told me that all the 40' trailers have been retired, so that leaves the 45, 48 and 53 footers.

[MP173]

264 is thru Valparaiso around 7am - 8:30am. On weekends it is on a relaxed schedule, usually 10 -11am.

It would be interesting to get a schedule of arrivals/departures at Ft Wayne and try to piece everything together. That must be one pretty busy operation at night. Are there any trains come in or depart during the day?

ed

[rrnut282]

I've seen 251 (SB to Atlanta) go by my house as late as 9am. It usually goes by 0630 dark. I believe 257 and 267 that go west on the old Wabash leave after 251 and should be in the daylight.

[Modelcar]

2 8 2....The 0630 unit must be the southbound thru Muncie I witnessed last week passing here a tick after 12 noon.....

[Modelcar]

...Wonder what speed they are allowed with available good ROW to run on...?

[MP173]

I think they run 60 here on the NKP, or whatever the speed restriction is. Train 262 was east to Ft. Wayne at 842pm tonight. He has 17R an hour ahead of him, my guess is 262 will hit Ft. Wayne by midnite.

ed

[Modelcar]

Generally the south bound unit passes here noon to sometime early afternoon.

[Sterling1]

When i was living in FL (gasp) [:O] I used to see the modified previous version of TCS trailers (the version where the rail wheel was between the road wheels, too much tare weight) on the highways (I-4) mostly heading north to the NS railhead (probably Jacksonville)

[Anonymous]

While I was browsing around, I found a site that claims BNSF triple crown units are made with Duraplate,... thing is, I'm not sure if this guy knew what he was talking about, I think he may have meant to say "BNSF roadrailer", because I thought BNSF just had some run through agreements with NS on some TC trains between KC and Texas, not a partnership with the name..

[greyhounds]

BNSF bought a bunch, something like 300, of refrigerated RoadRailers to try to get some of the California produce market back from the truckers.

Like every other RoadRailer operation in North America, outside the very limited Triple Crown network, it failed. The BNSF equipment now rides TOFC. What a waste! They can compete for the produce, they just can't do it with RoadRailers.

Outside the TC network, which is based on auto parts, nobody has firgured out how to use RoadRailers successfully. This includes the six major North American railroads, Swift Trucking, Schnieder Trucking, Alliance Shippers, Clipper Exxpress, etc.

[peterjenkinson1956]

saw a roadrailer train the last time i was in the U S A very impressed saw it in califoria... there has been mention of the equipment being plain and the special 10,000 trailer being a stand out... if children notice the trailertrains then why not use them as mobile bill boards and advertise pepsi, coke, mac donalds etc on the sides.. this would generate quite a bit of income and would make some interesting models... imagine buying 20 or so decals to put on the side of your consist.. in wollongong (australia ) the local model train club have a container train with advertising for the local buisneses and it is very popular also the local steel mill has wagons painted in the colors of the local sports teams... ps m636c do you know lyndon spence...peter

[oltmannd]

QUOTE: Originally posted by rrnut282

I have seen them bring in WB TC trains using the Belt line on occasion. I am only guessing here, but I think the reason they prefer to back in through MIKE is to get to other tracks. I think they can only use track 1 when coming in via the Belt and DRAKE. I only remember seeing 8 tracks for TC to use.

To answer another question, yes they can back almost any sized TC train. There is a six-axle maximum limit on backing (shove) moves, so the engineer must isolate any other unit while switching. About 2 years ago one forgot to isolate the trailing units while shoving around Piqua Wye and pushed several off of the tracks when the "coupling" was made.

I regularly see the NB 264 go by my house anywhere from 9 pm to midnight. That should put it into Piqua Yard an hour later (assuming it doesn't sit somewhere waiting for traffic).

Another source told me that all the 40' trailers have been retired, so that leaves the 45, 48 and 53 footers.

TCS is all 53'ers now.

[Modelcar]

...Is the post just above indicating TC service north / south on NS is all 53'ers now....? It sure appeared to me in observation just last week there was a variety of length trailers making up the consist as it passed our location...

[oltmannd]

A variety of trailers, but they are all 53'ers. ....all Mark V, too.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by oltmannd

A variety of trailers, but they are all 53'ers. ....all Mark V, too.

Are you absolutely positive about that? I'm sure I've seen TC trailers marked for 48' during the past year..

Especially the refers,,,.....

[oltmannd]

Yup. I just double checked. Last 48'er was retired 4/1/04

[Modelcar]

I'm not here to dispute your word on 53'ers....but I don't believe my perception is off that much to not notice the difference in trailer lengths....What I thought I was seeing was a consist of minority numbers of 53's.....I was up there today at our depot within the past 2 hrs. or so watching for it {the TC train}, to come rolling by south but it did not come...but 2 north bound trains did...A double stack {not all filled with double stacks}, and a local.