Trains.com

Photography of trains not allowed... again

1482 views
23 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Photography of trains not allowed... again
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 19, 2005 1:49 AM
Well, it's happened again. Sunday night I was photographing the eastbound Empire Builder passing the Sounder commuter train from a parking lot at the station in Everett, Washington. After taking two pictures, I was approached by a security guard and was told photography of trains is not permitted.

When I questioned the guard about the public property issue, she called her supervisor to verify the fact and responded that the security company has been instructed to tell everyone that photography of trains is not allowed. The supervisor also responded that the parking lot was private property and not public property. (This is a public park and ride lot used by Amtrak and Sound Transit as well as several local bus transit agencies.) All in all the security guards were very polite.

Interestingly enough, I have researched the Sound Transit passenger conduct rules on their web site and in their timetable and have found no mention of photography at all.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Austin TX
  • 4,941 posts
Posted by spbed on Monday, September 19, 2005 6:54 AM
Well you either are the most unlucky train fan in the USA or you either look like some sought of sinster train fan that makes people think you are doing somthing illegal. Just look at my web site & see all the trains I saw & all the places I have been & NEVER once have I been bothered or stopped from taking pix.

http://vgalleries.com/members/railfan1/The+Trainfan.vrg

[:p]

Originally posted by jcm2102
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

  • Member since
    September 2002
  • From: Rockton, IL
  • 4,821 posts
Posted by jeaton on Monday, September 19, 2005 7:24 AM
Everette must be on the stupid side of Seattle. The Olympia/Lacy station, which is about an equal distance away but on the other side of Seattle has a 24 hour web cam which can be found at the TrainWeb. com site. Duh.

Jay

"We have met the enemy and he is us." Pogo Possum "We have met the anemone... and he is Russ." Bucky Katt "Prediction is very difficult, especially if it's about the future." Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics

  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 19, 2005 7:25 AM
Looks like we need to rent a helicopter and hover in one or two juicy spots.

Me thinks you need to go into the wild away from the stations to photo shoot trains.
  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Good ol' USA
  • 9,642 posts
Posted by AntonioFP45 on Monday, September 19, 2005 7:31 AM
JCM,

Recently I read an article regarding Amtrak.

Apparently in the last 3 years several terrorist suspects were observed photographing Amtrak and Commuter trains along several spots along the northeast corrirdor, including large stations.

This is why Amtrak personnel may be "a bit on edge". On another railfan photo related thread here, some posters stated comments about "Freedom, rights, we're letting the terrorists win", etc. etc.,

However, after the train bombings in Spain and London......can we really blame railroad personnel and securtiy forces for being "abrasive" sometimes?

Sorry about what happened to you. It is good that the security personnel treated you with respect. Not excusing your being stopped from photographing trains as I have many railfanning photos. But this is a reality of life today whether we like it or not.

I'm planning on taking photos of trains again as I've been on a hiatus. But I'm going with the attitude that I may be challenged by police or railroad personnel, even if in a public place. I plan on keeping a cool head.

Continue railfanning, though!

Peace.

"I like my Pullman Standards & Budds in Stainless Steel flavors, thank you!"

 


  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 19, 2005 8:15 AM
Just pack up and move on to the next location. Trust me! There ARE other locations that no one can bother you at all. Just remember one thing......Stay clear out of view from the Public's eye. Once they see you,They got you. Allan.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Austin TX
  • 4,941 posts
Posted by spbed on Monday, September 19, 2005 8:15 AM
That is the + about Olympia-Lacy w/cam. The - is it only refreshes every 90 seconds. I was there last May & took pix of several trains breezing by & nobody bother me whasoever. Thae same goes for Tacoma, Portland & all along the I84 along the Columbia river & La Grange & Hinkle. The starter of this thread must provoke some kind of reaction from non rail fans when it trains fan or is just the world most unlucky person. Just look how close I got the trains & not 1 engineer reported me. At one time I was within 2 1/2 miles of a BNSF office & every train stops there to check the brakes before the upcoming downhill from the summit of the Cajon Pass. Just look at my web site to see all the trains & all the places I have been with no difficulty.

http://vgalleries.com/members/railfan1/The+Trainfan.vrg

[:p]

Originally posted by jeaton

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Austin TX
  • 4,941 posts
Posted by spbed on Monday, September 19, 2005 8:21 AM
Sorry see my web site. I do not agree with your contention. When I am at Riverside or Colton those are areas where you are ALWAYS interacting with the PUBLIC & have never been bother when I have been there. In fact when the Police need a break they sit under the I-10 overpass in Colton to get out of the California sun & have seen me several times & NEVER bother me or ask what I am doing. I guess my tripod & digital camera gives me away.

http://vgalleries.com/members/railfan1/The+Trainfan.vrg

[:p][:p]

Originally posted by BNSF railfan.
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Austin TX
  • 4,941 posts
Posted by spbed on Monday, September 19, 2005 9:13 AM
About your interaction with the public when trainfanning to reinforce what I posted earlier here is a message I received in my guest book on my web site.

"It is nice to see folks enjoying the area and taking pix in both Riverside and Colton along with the Cajon Pass. I especially have to chuckle since your one picture caught my old office in Riverside in the background where I could watch the trains all day long".

from that Email you can see there are biz offices at Riverside with windows overlooking the tracks.

[:p][:p]




Originally posted by BNSF railfan.
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

  • Member since
    July 2005
  • From: Northeast Missouri
  • 869 posts
Posted by SchemerBob on Monday, September 19, 2005 10:39 AM
In some ways it's probably better to photograph trains right in the middle of things. If you do it way out somewhere or where you know most people won't see you, you'd think that would be what some terrorists would do. Right now I'm in to taking video of trains but so far I haven't brought my video camera on a national train like Amtrak or any light rail system. Probably, though, taking video is less likley to be considered what terrorists would do anyways.
Long live the BNSF .... AND its paint scheme. SchemerBob
  • Member since
    June 2001
  • From: US
  • 13,488 posts
Posted by Mookie on Monday, September 19, 2005 10:46 AM
The author states that this is private property. Hence, they have the right to not let people do whatever they want on the property, be it take pictures or loiter or whatever.

Re-read the posting. Just as private as railroad tracks. And if the security works for a private owner, who leases the property to another entity - the owner still has the right to say what will and will not go on, on his property.

Am I missing something?

Mook

She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw

  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Austin TX
  • 4,941 posts
Posted by spbed on Monday, September 19, 2005 12:15 PM
You should find out who really/truly owns the property. You cannot expect the supervisor not to back up the person chasing you. If as Mookie says it is private property then yes you are actually trespassing & if they represent the owner then they have the right to chase you. Go to the tax rolls of the city involved & check for the rightful owner. If the city owns it which sounds plausable as it a park & ride lot then whomever has no right/power to chase you. [:o)][:p]

Originally posted by jcm2102

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

  • Member since
    October 2002
  • From: Milwaukee, WI, US
  • 1,384 posts
Posted by fuzzybroken on Monday, September 19, 2005 12:38 PM
I'll agree with what was said above. Do a little checking, find out for sure whether the lot is public, find out who hired the security company and whether what you were told was true (I doubt it). If there is a valid reason for the prohibition of photography, so be it, but if there is not make sure you know who to contact on the spot.

Might not be a bad idea to get a legal protection plan too, they're not that expensive and are really worth it!
-Fuzzy Fuzzy World 3
  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Southwestern Florida
  • 501 posts
Posted by Tharmeni on Monday, September 19, 2005 2:32 PM
When challenged by security/police/whatever, I found it does NOT help your case to say "Abduhl is going to be ticked off if I don't get these pictures".

  • Member since
    July 2005
  • From: Austin Texas
  • 24 posts
Posted by Scoobie9669 on Monday, September 19, 2005 3:33 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

JCM,

Apparently in the last 3 years several terrorist suspects were observed photographing Amtrak and Commuter trains along several spots along the northeast corrirdor, including large stations.



How come they where not arrested?
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • From: Defiance Ohio
  • 13,309 posts
Posted by JoeKoh on Monday, September 19, 2005 4:33 PM
the key here is to take pictures leave footprints.mind your manners if asked any questions.politeness goes farther than sarcasim.
stay safe
Joe

Deshler Ohio-crossroads of the B&O Matt eats your fries.YUM! Clinton st viaduct undefeated against too tall trucks!!!(voted to be called the "Clinton St. can opener").

 

  • Member since
    July 2005
  • From: CSXT/B&O Flora IL
  • 1,937 posts
Posted by waltersrails on Monday, September 19, 2005 4:43 PM
Ive been there i was videoing a train by my house and when it passed a
cop came up and asked what i was doing and i told him i was taping
a train and after that he said ok as long as i wasn't doing anything illigal
"this was right after the lasers being shot at airplanes"
Oh well wasn't in troble and still enjoying trains.
I like NS but CSX has the B&O.
  • Member since
    April 2003
  • 305,205 posts
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, September 19, 2005 6:14 PM
The station and surrounding land is owned by the City of Everett. The guards were hired by Sound Transit and had nothing to do with the City of Everett.

Also, the city is evidently not too worried about pictures as they have posted a 9-page photo gallery of the station including site and floor plans on their web site. Some of those pictures even show trains!!!

http://www.everettwa.org/station/default.asp
  • Member since
    July 2005
  • From: Northeast Missouri
  • 869 posts
Posted by SchemerBob on Monday, September 19, 2005 7:13 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by waltersrails

Ive been there i was videoing a train by my house and when it passed a
cop came up and asked what i was doing and i told him i was taping
a train and after that he said ok as long as i wasn't doing anything illigal
"this was right after the lasers being shot at airplanes"
Oh well wasn't in troble and still enjoying trains.


Very similar to what happened to me. I was videotaping trains on the BNSF transcon and a BNSF policeman came up and asked what I was doing. I said I was videotaping trains and he didn't say anything more except saying that I was doing everything right and he appriciated it!
Long live the BNSF .... AND its paint scheme. SchemerBob
  • Member since
    September 2001
  • From: US
  • 1,015 posts
Posted by RudyRockvilleMD on Monday, September 19, 2005 9:56 PM
This raises the legal issue whether railroad stations and their parking lots, etc. that are owned or supported as taxpayer financed public entities are really public property in the same sense as sidewalks and parks.
  • Member since
    November 2004
  • From: Brisbane Australia
  • 1,721 posts
Posted by james saunders on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 12:07 AM
perhaps when photographing trains etc. you should ask the station supervisor for permission like i do even though there isnt as greater tension in Australia about terrorsism now the station supervisors know who i am and dont mind my presence on their station.

James, Brisbane Australia

Modelling AT&SF in the 90s

  • Member since
    July 2003
  • From: Southwestern Florida
  • 501 posts
Posted by Tharmeni on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 3:52 AM
Do any of the security folks realize that photographing trains is not something terrorists would likely do? It's photographing TRACKs and FACILITIES that they should be watching for.
  • Member since
    December 2001
  • From: Northern New York
  • 25,009 posts
Posted by tree68 on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 6:45 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by RudyRockvilleMD

This raises the legal issue whether railroad stations and their parking lots, etc. that are owned or supported as taxpayer financed public entities are really public property in the same sense as sidewalks and parks.

Ever see a sign on a fence that said something to the effect of "City Property - Keep Out?" Despite regularly allowed public access, a lot of places really aren't "public property." Take the parking lot at the grocery store or fast food restaurant - both are truly private property to which the public is allowed access, ostensibly for the purpose of patronizing the store.

The parking lot at the RR station may very well be railroad property. Arguing public financial support (subsidy, etc) is a large can of worms - you really have to look and see whose name is on the deed... If it says "Railroad", it's private property.

LarryWhistling
Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) 
Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you
My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date
Come ride the rails with me!
There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...

  • Member since
    February 2004
  • From: Mile 7.5 Laggan Sub., Great White North
  • 4,201 posts
Posted by trainboyH16-44 on Tuesday, September 20, 2005 2:52 PM
So, the west coast has gotten there too, eh? Too bad. I have some pretty good photos at Edmonds, which is in the Seattle Metropolitan area, andI hope it doesn't creep to the suburbs.
Trainboy

Go here for my rail shots! http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?userid=9296

Building the CPR Kootenay division in N scale, blog here: http://kootenaymodelrailway.wordpress.com/

Join our Community!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

Search the Community

Newsletter Sign-Up

By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy