Please Don't Feed The Trolls (somewhat off topic, but then again) part 2 maybe?

[Anonymous]

In recent months we have had a proliferation of topics not even closley related to railfanning or railroads. I really don't mind a thread about Katrina because it so greately has impacted this country, its transporation system, its economy, and countless lives. Katrina is world-wide news. It is something that haunts our waking moments and will for a long time. However, threads of an extremely personal nature probally should not be started here in the trains forums. Do we really need to know WHEN you brushed your teeth, or if you didn't? Do we, as a forum, really need to know your personal business when you would be better off consulting a lawyer or perhaps the police? Does a majority of the forum want to know who you are dating and problems with that courtship on a daily basis? Do the forum members enjoy threads where one member accuses another member of such 'n such, and calls him "on the carpet?"

I come to the forums for entertainment, not gossip ! ! ! I wi***o see and read topics about railfanning, trains, and the railroads. There are a number of ways in which these items may be effected--Katrina has shown us that. However, I sincerely doubt that your personal life greatly effects railfanning, trains, and the railroads to the extend that the forum would want to hear about it, nonetheless have its own thread.

This idea was somewhat thrown about a few weeks ago. Judging from recent topics/threads we need to bring it up again. Please don't feed the trolls. They just continue to post more ridiculous and nonrevelant topics -- such as those many of us didn't come here to see in the first place.

If you see a ridiculous and nonrevelant topic, don't post in it. Just ignore it and soon it (and hopefully they) will go away.

Please join me in the search for meaningful and revelant topics (which I hope is just around the corner). Until then, PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

[adrianspeeder]

Whys everyone so wound up?

Adrianspeeder

[tree68]

Just reviewing the titles of the latest 20 topics, I find 1 specifically on gas prices, 3 specifically on Katrina, 14 on railroading, the Diner, and this thread. Several included a couple of those topics (effects of the storm on RRs, gas prices, railfanning, & RRs, etc). While there have been some trolls lately, and there might even be one in the current list, it hasn't been too bad. I don't spend much time on other forums, but it sounds like we're in pretty good shape right here.

[Anonymous]

Over in the MR model train forums they had a big upsurge of odd, flame related postings, they sort of died down about the time school was going back in session, not sure if it's related or not. I would have to agree though over on this forum, it seems to have spurts of odd topics, not sure why. Though the shackle car stuff was pretty funny, nothing wrong with a little humor at times.

[chad thomas]

Couldn't agree more Jim. But I must admit I get some real good laughs out of some of those idiodic posts. Wasn't Ed going to call the Orkin man?

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tree68

Just reviewing the titles of the latest 20 topics, I find 1 specifically on gas prices, 3 specifically on Katrina, 14 on railroading, the Diner, and this thread. Several included a couple of those topics (effects of the storm on RRs, gas prices, railfanning, & RRs, etc). While there have been some trolls lately, and there might even be one in the current list, it hasn't been too bad. I don't spend much time on other forums, but it sounds like we're in pretty good shape right here.

Larry

I believe at least one thread was deleted yesterday. It involved one forum member calling another forum member "on the carpet." There was also a little flaming in it. It was gone sometime in the afternoon.

There is currently another thread, that does not involve anything this forum stands for, floating needlessly around. If someone needs to call the plumber or perhaps the police, how train related can that be?

[tree68]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes
I believe at least one thread was deleted yesterday. It involved one forum member calling another forum member "on the carpet." There was also a little flaming in it. It was gone sometime in the afternoon.

That's why we have moderators - to handle the folks who do get out of control, which they obviously do from time to time.

QUOTE:
There is currently another thread, that does not involve anything this forum stands for, floating needlessly around. If someone needs to call the plumber or perhaps the police, how train related can that be?

Random acts of weirdness. Can't explain them, so I won't try. If they're harmless, they'll eventually sink to the bottom. If they are harmful, such as the threads you mentioned being deleted (I was sailing, so didn't read them), they usually disappear in short order, sometimes along with the offending poster.

Sometimes they serve as the safety valve (see - they are railroad related!) and let us all blow off a little steam... I do believe that even though most of us have never met, we still tend to feel we're among friends and can vent a little.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes



I come to the forums for entertainment, not gossip ! ! ! I wi***o see and read topics about railfanning, trains, and the railroads. There are a number of ways in which these items may be effected--Katrina has shown us that. However, I sincerely doubt that your personal life greatly effects railfanning, trains, and the railroads to the extend that the forum would want to hear about it, nonetheless have its own thread.



If you see a ridiculous and nonrevelant topic, don't post in it. Just ignore it and soon it (and hopefully they) will go away.

Please join me in the search for meaningful and revelant topics (which I hope is just around the corner). Until then, PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

I agree, but then again I don't

What bothers me most about your post is, who gets to decide what is ridiculous and non-relavant?

Someone who was truly interested in what Ed had for breakfast might be taken to task by someone having control obsessions and deciding whats 'fit" for the rest of us to read.

Some folks might think that a picture of a fish named after a hog powered by boatmotors that once were adapted to rail is pretty silly too. As well as solicitations for prayer being out of place on a railroad forum

Good thing people who might think such a thing have no power, isn't it? that's the way I feel.

[CopCarSS]

While I agree with you, Jim, I also kind of feel like there have been almost as many threads decrying the trolls as there have been troll threads themselves.

I really hope this forum doesn't deteriorate into something like the DPReview forums I used to frequent. It was almost like the Salem Witch Trials over there. Granted the whole Nikon/Canon thing, which has gotten as bad as the Ford/Chevy thing, fueled a lot of it. Still, there were some interesting threads that soon resembled 17th century Salem:

"You're a troll!"
"Well, you're a troll for calling me a troll!"
"Yeah, well only a troll would accuse another of being a troll!"

While, I'm certainly not accusing you of that, Jim, I still think giving the buggers any recognition at all, even in a thread warning about feeding the trolls gives them hope that they can lay waste to the forum.

Just my [2c] of course...

[Big_Boy_4005]

I don't see much of this stuff falling into the realm of true trolling. Much of what is being decried, is simple ignorance on the part of certain posters. Trolling has the element of malicious intent, which in most cases I find lacking.

Everybody needs to notch down.

[Anonymous]

[tup] Well written Jim, enough is enough.

[bnsfkline]

That flaming topic was deleted because I had put a post that said delete topic, and I am sorry that I even posted it.

On anther side of the view, the forums is a good place to seek advice on what to do when there is no one else to turn to. My recent post about the death threats that were made on me, I had absolutly no Idea of what to do.

Everyone on these forums is like a family, we all interact and help one other by answering questions. I think that if someone really needs to ask something about non-railroad issues, let them. Thats freedom of speech. Sure alot of topics are about railroads, but sometimes we need a break for them.

Let people post what they want, if no one wants to read about them, then they don't have to listen to them or even read the topic.

Am I right, or am I wrong?

[chad thomas]

It's like I used to say to people that complained about programming on television, See that big knob...It actualy changes the channel...Use it if you don't like what's on.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jhhtrainsplanes

In recent months we have had a proliferation of topics not even closley related to railfanning or railroads. I really don't mind a thread about Katrina because it so greately has impacted this country, its transporation system, its economy, and countless lives. Katrina is world-wide news. It is something that haunts our waking moments and will for a long time. However, threads of an extremely personal nature probally should not be started here in the trains forums. Do we really need to know WHEN you brushed your teeth, or if you didn't? Do we, as a forum, really need to know your personal business when you would be better off consulting a lawyer or perhaps the police? Does a majority of the forum want to know who you are dating and problems with that courtship on a daily basis? Do the forum members enjoy threads where one member accuses another member of such 'n such, and calls him "on the carpet?"

I come to the forums for entertainment, not gossip ! ! ! I wi***o see and read topics about railfanning, trains, and the railroads. There are a number of ways in which these items may be effected--Katrina has shown us that. However, I sincerely doubt that your personal life greatly effects railfanning, trains, and the railroads to the extend that the forum would want to hear about it, nonetheless have its own thread.

This idea was somewhat thrown about a few weeks ago. Judging from recent topics/threads we need to bring it up again. Please don't feed the trolls. They just continue to post more ridiculous and nonrevelant topics -- such as those many of us didn't come here to see in the first place.

If you see a ridiculous and nonrevelant topic, don't post in it. Just ignore it and soon it (and hopefully they) will go away.

Please join me in the search for meaningful and revelant topics (which I hope is just around the corner). Until then, PLEASE DON'T FEED THE TROLLS.

yea, lot of discussion about politics, has nothing to do with anything relevant to this forum, I've participated to, and I apologize for it

[selector]

I am an occasional on this forum, so I try to behave like one. In that sense, I see a bit of both sides. As Dave said above, we have had our own tiffs recently, something that I haven't seen much of in my nearly seven months on the Trains.com fora.

The idea of fora is that they are meant to allow a venue to those who wi***o discuss or learn about a given subject matter. Humans being what they are, they develop a loyalty and a sense of kinship with the members of any group to which they belong.

When we are fine, and wanting to read about all things trains, it can be annoying when other members take up bandwidth for seemingly personal topics. But, the topic IS personal when we discuss trains, so we come to ally ourselves with the folks here over time.

At the very least, I would take it as a sign of faith, confidence, and respect if a person were to bare his soul, as bnsfkline has done, and to ask for help from his FRIENDS. To your credit on this forum, a good many of you have jumped in.

As to the other threads on the Hurricane and other subjects, perhaps they can be tolerated since they are in the minority, and are important in a number of ways. If they become too problematic, and a thread like this one gets strong support for that conclusion, ask your moderator to come on line with a gentle reminder of the purpose of the forum. Finally, the forum designers thought to include e-mail for those who might feel better about discussing non-trains subjects in more depth.

I offer those thoughts for consideration.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Couldn't agree more Jim. But I must admit I get some real good laughs out of some of those idiodic posts. Wasn't Ed going to call the Orkin man?

Well you know how "spraying" is, it needs repeated 4 or 5 times a year to really do the job. [;)]

I have received several emails from other forum members. Several have expressed the same idea, that the forum just isn't the same forum it was 2 or 3 years ago. It use to be a great joy for me to come and read the threads, I learned so much. I know for a fact, from reading more than one email, that the "joy" just isn't the same anymore, not for me, not for others.

Therefore, as others as already said in the "orkin man" thead, I will be spending less time here in the future. There are some great people in the magazine forum, I will continue my emails, letters, packages, and phone calls to you. I will be spending more time in the modeling forum now. There are some good people there too, and the nonsense threads don't stick around there.

[chad thomas]

Don't give up guys.[:O] If the old heads bail out it will only get worse in here. [B)]

[samfp1943]

I understand the need to "Vent" at times, but maybe there should be a specific forum to just that, Most all of us are here to enjoy railroad/railfan topics, to contribute some knowledge and keep interested in rail related subjects...An occassional visitor....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Don't give up guys.[:O] If the old heads bail out it will only get worse in here. [B)]

Some of the worst offenders are the 'old heads" Have you read the heated exchanges in the milwaukee (and soon in the great northern, I'm guessing) thread?

See, that is part of the problem with censorship. If one of the old heads wants to start throwing insults around about the civil war and and geography, what makes that anymore acceptable than if somebody like Peterson were to come in and throw the same stuff around?

Is it 'ok" in one instance simply because one guy we look up to while the other we don't? Sounds like bias to me.

And the biggie, 'who gets to make that decision?'

It is a LOT easier for the dedicated forum enthusiast to simply skip over the nonsense than it is to set up (and uniformly adhere to) iron clad context rules. for the entire forum.

If somone hates Peterson's threads, isn't it easier to simply skip threads he starts than to read everyone then cry "Why is this garbage cluttering up MY forum?"?

[tree68]

As AG says - you can usually pick out the trolling threads that start that way, and ignore them (or read them and get a good laugh).

On the other hand, there are the perfectly legitimate threads that get hijacked and turn into page after page of worthless drivel.

[chad thomas]

Well, I myself don't hate anyone or any thread. And your right that this is our forum not my forum. I actually find some of these threads to be very funny. But when all these ridiculous and duplicate threads pu***he good stuff off the radar in a matter of hours it does tend to take the fun out of things. Just my opinion.[8D]

[Mookie]

Ok - I am a really old head! I have said before - I enjoy a certain amount of back and forth between the members. I looked through the GN thread - don't understand any of it, but at least when they were disagreeing, they were being fairly gentlemanly.

My problem is that there are so many, many, many topics that are posted - that most of them get short shrift (and some should). By the time you sort back through as many as 5 pages of items and try to read something that may interest you, you have lost ground and another page has been filled.

We are getting to the point that we seem like a group of people that can only hold a thought for 5 seconds and then have to move on to another. The forum has become the virtual remote control - constantly changing channels.

I think some of what we are seeing is the exuberance of youth.

I think some of it is people who will crash any party they get near.

The best thing would be to help the young people learn and have some tolerance. Same goes for John/Jane Q Public when we ask some really silly questions.

The crashers are like flies. You spray one and another shows up to take their place. They probably will never go away completely, but as long as the Trains personnel sprays once in awhile, they should be controllable.

Reprints available.

Mook

[blhanel]

I think our esteemed moderator should lock a thread when it's an obvious duplicate after posting a link to the duplicated thread. He should then give the thread initiator 24 hours to see his mistake before deleting the thread.

[Mookie]

methinks our esteemed moderator has more on his plate than watching over the forum 24/7. Even several moderators.

I would rather think of us as a self-cleaning appliance.

Moo

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ok - I am a really old head! I have said before - I enjoy a certain amount of back and forth between the members. I looked through the GN thread - don't understand any of it, but at least when they were disagreeing, they were being fairly gentlemanly.

My problem is that there are so many, many, many topics that are posted - that most of them get short shrift (and some should). By the time you sort back through as many as 5 pages of items and try to read something that may interest you, you have lost ground and another page has been filled.


The crashers are like flies. You spray one and another shows up to take their place. They probably will never go away completely, but as long as the Trains personnel sprays once in awhile, they should be controllable.

Reprints available.

Mook

Good points. It is kinda frustrating when you start a thread about a question pertaining to something you are interested in, and no body responds so it fades into oblivion behind post after post of nonsense. Or, instead of getting a qualified response that satisfies your question your thread instead becomes a magnet of post like "Gee, i've always wondered that too" and tons of other crosstalk,..none of which pertains to the info one was seeking when originally asking the question.. I think we've all been there.

Or, one of my favorite annoyances, you start a thread asking a strait forward, easy enough question about, oh lets say "coupling knuckles" and some member comes on with this 'gee, what you need to do is run out and buy a copy of Herb blacks book ($35.00) titled "building rolling stock from the ground up, the complete history" and then never bothers to address the point you were specifically after, leaving me wonder if the helpful poster wasn't Herb Black himself trying to sell another copy of his book. Leaving me think : "All i wanted was a simple answer, not an invitation to enrich some publishing house".. but then I'm funny that way.

The thing that bothers me most about the mention of heavy handed censorship here is my suspicion that such would be enforced to the advantage of a few, and the detriment of the masses.

I left here for a while because this place was so overbearingly rightwing, almost to the point of absurdity. (post 911)

You'd see one of the more established members saying things that were patriotic, yet VERY political at the same time, that was 'OK'... But, if you bothered to point out the inaccuracies in said patriotic claims, you get yer head snapped off with comments like "why don't you take that garbage to a political forum? this forum is about TRAINS!

Well, one can be a loyal American and still have an affection for the truth, even when said truth might come across as less than drum pounding patriotic.

But, giving some members the right to float their political agenda because it conforms to the preferances of the good ol boys network, while using forum censorship "rules" (<---quotes to depict sarcasm) to squash contending opinion,....simply sucks.

And there is not a doubt in my mind that any enhanced censorship will be used exactly like that, allowances will be made for more popular members, while others will have the broomstick shoved in, twisted, and broken off.

[Mookie]

Ouch!

But I think you have brought up a lot of good points.

We are probably preaching to the choir, but.....

And if you see Zardoz, tell him all is forgiven and please come back. So many good people gone.....

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Mookie

Ouch!

But I think you have brought up a lot of good points.

We are probably preaching to the choir, but.....

And if you see Zardoz, tell him all is forgiven and please come back. So many good people gone.....

The name Zardoz is vaguely familiar, but just from here. I don't know anyone here, beyond the forum.

Was Zardoz a "troll"?

[Mookie]

Naw - he was a cool dude!