Mayor of New Orleans requests haste-People to write letters.

[gabe]

I am not aware of the fact that the levies in question have anything to do with navigation or that building them X feet tall as opposed to X-10 feet tall would have any effect whatsoever on navigation.

Also, why should federal funds pay for something that protects the city of New Orleans?

If my back yard is in danger of flooding, I have the responsibility to pay for it, not my fellow tax payers.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

Gabe wote this about levees:

"If a city has a local problem, they are responsible for addressing it."

Of course, in many situations this is indeed correct. However, because New Orleans is situated next to the Mississippi river, which is a navigable river, the levees are installed as much to preserve navigation on the river and its commerce as flood control of New Orleans. Again, the levees around New Orleans are a federal responsibility.

Again, the problem has been known for over 10 years and the City of New Orleans through the Louisiana Federal Legislators have been trying to fix this known problem.

Jim

[Anonymous]

Well if NO and the state level knew they needed the stronger levee, and the feds kept cutting money, and since they didn't want to spend their own money (I will not say a word here [banghead]) then MAYBE since it was a potential concern for the next killer storm, they should have had a plan B in effect, maybe started to deny any new construction in or along the area, have some public edication, or better yet maybe themselves, so that NO would have at the least had a plan. I see a lot of lazy, finger pointing, wipe my nose please mentality going on down there. His little speech, pretty much shows his level of leadership, he has none, our leaders are supposed to be a tad better at controlling themselves. If he is any indication of how they react to this, then it all makes sense about the handout, looting, stand their ground thought process.

I am getting more and more each day a little tired of the whiny outlook by many in regard to this. The President needs to get over to the 14 year old with the john boat and make him an example of the the American Can Do philosophy.

[Anonymous]

eolafan wrote

"Well, it may have historically been the provance of the Army Corps of Engineers, but running and protecting the city of NO and state of LA is the ultimate responsibility of those elected to city and state office...that's what they are there for!"

All LA federal legislators, senators and house members alike, both republican and democrats have been trying to get the necessary improvements in the levees around New Orleans for more than 10 years. But, federal monies for these improvements continued to be cut from the federal budget.

I'm taking about levees only. Nothing else here, so please don't broaden this by interjecting a unrelated topic to my discussion of levees around New Orleans and who is responsible for them.

Jim

Jimj

[gabe]

Not so much a fan, I just find the line useful in combating defendants who use the "Nurenburg/it wasn't my responsibility defense" when I am in court.

Gabe

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

Gabe Wrote:

"I think building a levy is a local undertaking, and I think that is a definite mistake we may all point to."

I think your wrong here Gabe, the responsibility for the levies around New Orleans have been historically for many years that of the Army Corp of Engineers. Its within their budget that funds are made available for the levies around New Orleans. They are the ones that engineer and contract the improvements and oversee construction. It is not the City of New Orleans.

Good to see you here and posting. I miss your wit.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the kind words.

I understand your--and Jay's--point that much, if not all of the construction of the NO levy system was through the Army Corp of Engineers. There is no question that the both of you are right on that ground.

While conceeding both of your very valid points, when there are several hurricanes in the Gulf that reach category 4-5 strength in the last decade, I don't think it is a fair excuse for the local government to say "whether it comes up and not where it comes down, that's not my department says Dr. Vernon Vaun Brown (sp?)."

I am far from an avid studier of levies, but I knew of this problem last year. Certainly NO emergency management did years before this and had to know it was simply a matter of time before a category 4 or 5 hit the city.

The levies protect local interests, local interests should be the first ones to blame if they are not proper. If the feds only built a category 3 levy, NO should have taken it upon itself to protect itself with category 5 levies when the problem became apparent. I just don't like the contention that "if the federal government does not fix a local problem, then the local government should be absolved of responsibility."

But, I think your point about the Army Corp of Engineers is valid.

Gabe

The ACE responds to the customers....or more specifically to their elected representatives...

So Gabe...A Tom Leher fan? ........

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan

I think your wrong here Gabe, the responsibility for the levies around New Orleans have been historically for many years that of the Army Corp of Engineers. Its within their budget that funds are made available for the levies around New Orleans. They are the ones that engineer and contract the improvements and oversee construction. It is not the City of New Orleans.

Well, it may have historically been the provance of the Army Corps of Engineers, but running and protecting the city of NO and state of LA is the ultimate responsibility of those elected to city and state office...that's what they are there for!

I am not sure we are disagreeing with one another. I am not contending that the Army Corp of Engineers does not build the levies. I am contending that City officials knew the levies built by the Army Corp of Engineers would only protect them from a Category 3, and saying "that is not our department" is not a valid excuse.

If a city has a local problem, they are responsible for addressing it.

Gabe

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by SP9033

Gabe Wrote:

"I think building a levy is a local undertaking, and I think that is a definite mistake we may all point to."

I think your wrong here Gabe, the responsibility for the levies around New Orleans have been historically for many years that of the Army Corp of Engineers. Its within their budget that funds are made available for the levies around New Orleans. They are the ones that engineer and contract the improvements and oversee construction. It is not the City of New Orleans.

Good to see you here and posting. I miss your wit.

Jim

Jim,

Thanks for the kind words.

I understand your--and Jay's--point that much, if not all of the construction of the NO levy system was through the Army Corp of Engineers. There is no question that the both of you are right on that ground.

While conceeding both of your very valid points, when there are several hurricanes in the Gulf that reach category 4-5 strength in the last decade, I don't think it is a fair excuse for the local government to say "whether it comes up and not where it comes down, that's not my department says Dr. Vernon Vaun Brown (sp?)."

I am far from an avid studier of levies, but I knew of this problem last year. Certainly NO emergency management did years before this and had to know it was simply a matter of time before a category 4 or 5 hit the city.

The levies protect local interests, local interests should be the first ones to blame if they are not proper. If the feds only built a category 3 levy, NO should have taken it upon itself to protect itself with category 5 levies when the problem became apparent. I just don't like the contention that "if the federal government does not fix a local problem, then the local government should be absolved of responsibility."

But, I think your point about the Army Corp of Engineers is valid.

Gabe

[eolafan]

I think your wrong here Gabe, the responsibility for the levies around New Orleans have been historically for many years that of the Army Corp of Engineers. Its within their budget that funds are made available for the levies around New Orleans. They are the ones that engineer and contract the improvements and oversee construction. It is not the City of New Orleans.

Well, it may have historically been the provance of the Army Corps of Engineers, but running and protecting the city of NO and state of LA is the ultimate responsibility of those elected to city and state office...that's what they are there for!

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Well I understand how Canadian laws and the basics of how it coordinates itself to work pretty well. Canada doesn't have 50 million agencies getting in each other's way.

In Toronto, there was really bad snow storm and completely shutting down the city. Mel Lastman who at time was the major, called in the military which took over. Very effective, as the ambulances couldn't go through the snow, ARVs and APCs were used instead.

Hmm . . . a snow storm--in Canada no less--compared to a category 4 hurricane hitting a major city below sea level. That is a fair comparison.

The first example happens on a yearly basis the second has not happened in recorded history.

Furthermore, I loved your argument that Canada has a smaller central government than the United States with less agencies. Good one.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

Gabe Wrote:

"I think building a levy is a local undertaking, and I think that is a definite mistake we may all point to."

I think your wrong here Gabe, the responsibility for the levies around New Orleans have been historically for many years that of the Army Corp of Engineers. Its within their budget that funds are made available for the levies around New Orleans. They are the ones that engineer and contract the improvements and oversee construction. It is not the City of New Orleans.

Good to see you here and posting. I miss your wit.

Jim

[eolafan]

Well, let' s review what I saw on television last night on the news...

First President Bush comes into town four days after the fact and like John Wayne at the head of the troops lots of aid miraculously comes in just behind him...what a shock...NOT. He has been embarassed and is not reacting the way he should have a few days ago. You can bet your last dollar that some federal agency heads will be cut off by Bush so as to deflect attention from him on this one.
Second, I agree with those above who noted that the mayor of NO and govenor or LA should have planned MUCH, MUCH better for this. It really was only a matter of time until such a disaster hit NO, and it is THEIR RESPONSIBILITY to make sure their city and state are ready for such things, not hte federal government.
Lastly, I saw Geraldo Rivera and Bill O'Reilley competing for the last word on Fox News last night and it almost made me sick to my stomach. Rivera was ranting and raving about how NO was a powder keg and he guaranteed it would explode last night after the sun went down...IT DID NOT. All the while, O'Reilley was trying his best to cut off Rivera's weak attempt to get ratings points through sensationalish by himself trying to be the voice of reason and get some ratings points himself...I simply shut it off before I threw something at the TV screen...really disgusting....Geraldo should go back to Al Capone's vault as that's where he belongs.

Did the feds react quite as fast as we would have all hoped they would, NO, but the blame (as properly noted above by others) can be shared by those who had and have the responsibility for the city of NO and the state of LA, not the feds.

Bottom line, when you have a forty year old roof over your head that has never leaked before and a really big rain storm comes along with logs of wind, chances are it will begin to leak, and at that time you better not scream about your neighbors not coming over with tarps and buckets to help you...if you had planned ahead you would have replaced the roof proactively before this time...ARE YOU LISTENIGN MR. MAYOR AND MADAM GOVENOR?

[Junctionfan]

Well I understand how Canadian laws and the basics of how it coordinates itself to work pretty well. Canada doesn't have 50 million agencies getting in each other's way.

In Toronto, there was really bad snow storm and completely shutting down the city. Mel Lastman who at time was the major, called in the military which took over. Very effective, as the ambulances couldn't go through the snow, ARVs and APCs were used instead.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan


But Dan, didn't they already train for that scenario? What kind of timetable did they expect? I'm of course talking about FEMA.

You're exactly the audience the networks love.....easy to convince, ignores reality and quick to mouth off. Don't let realities or facts dissuede you. You seem to have it wired.... I sure hope you're in charge if Canada has a disaster.

Dan

That descibes 60-70% of our own population here in the US, it's what they are fed day in and day out, all these little sound bites with no factual backing or research to go on, people take it all at face value and they repeat it, and it spreads like a wild fire. When major networks allow celeberties, and the man on the street to make a statement, then don't counter it or prove it correct or wrong, just sensationalize it we get just the way of thinking that Andrew has, in a way it's not his fault. He is using it seems CNN as his primary source of facts. That in it's self is scary[:(!]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan


But Dan, didn't they already train for that scenario? What kind of timetable did they expect? I'm of course talking about FEMA.

Okay Andrew...this reality thing seems to be stumping you....

You're not getting it. It's pretty apparent you don't want to either. If you want to pick apart our government like you seem more than willing to do on a daily basis, then perhaps you should educate yourself on the various functions, at the federal, state and local level and why they are that way. Do you even know what FEMA does or their relationship with DHS, the military, NG or state and local governments? You want to find someone in our government to blame. I'm sure you will. And there going to be plenty of blame to go around. But I'm not too sure an excited Canadian student is going to get much press....other than here.

You're exactly the audience the networks love.....easy to convince, ignores reality and quick to mouth off. Don't let realities or facts dissuede you. You seem to have it wired.... I sure hope you're in charge if Canada has a disaster.

[Anonymous]

Even if the levees were only a Cat 3 design, and it was needed to be at a Cat 5, with all the $$$ that rolls into New Orleans, why if the Feds and Army Corp didn't have the funds, that they New Orleans not improve the system. Looks like we are dealing with a Handout mentality all the way around here.

[gabe]

Jay,

I hate to disagree with one of my favorite people on the forum in the little time I have available on here. But,

(1) Who ever told NO that a levy system capable of withstanding a class 3 hurricane is sufficient should be shot. There have been 7 hurricanes that reached class 5 status in the Gulf during the last ten years. NO was just lucky in that none of them hit.

(2) Even if NO were told this in the 60s, shouldn't the presence of Class 5 hurricanes in the Gulf have been enough for a town below sea level to rethink its' strategy? It is not like they didn't have any warning that this might have happened.

I guess that is my frustration with this whole thing. It takes the federal government to make people act for such an obvious threat; it is like people are saying we can't act unless the federal government tells us how to mitigate a local problem.

(3) In terms of response, I agree; that is largely the job of the federal government. However, in terms of evacuation procedures, I think that is something the local government is responsible for. If I recall, the mayor had to be ordered to order the town to evacuate in the first place.

I think our disagreement is a good-faith fundamental disagreement on what is the duty of State government and what is the duty of local government. I am not so much saying that you are wrong in your contention that the federal government could do more to help the suffering.

However, per Dan's thoughts, I have yet to be pointed to a definite mistake that the federal government did in organizing relief. I think building a levy is a local undertaking, and I think that is a definite mistake we may all point to.

Nonetheless, you may be right and I am not discounting your theories. That is just the way I see it.

Gabe

[MP173]

One of my rules of life goes like this:

"There are certain storms in life you cannot plan for."

Katrina was such a storm. I think we are all angry as to what has happened. What disturbs me more than anything right now is politicalization of this event. This is suddenly a racial issue. If one believes that, then one must believe that the everything this country has stood for, every wrong that has been corrected over the past 50, 100 years has just been a hoax and a lie.

I personally dont believe that. The list of things that went wrong could (and probably will) fill a thick book very quickly. We are all now aware that NO is below sea level. We all know now that US Corp of Engineers called this event, as did a the local newspaper, we all know that FEMA cannot magically appear instantly to relieve the suffering and evacuation.

But, we all know and realize the magnitude that this country is responding to this catastrophy. The outpouring of support and $$ is amazing.

Regarding that 14 year old with the john boat...if anyone can find out his name, I suggest we start a fund of some sort for him and his family. He is an American Hero. But, one must ask...where were the others?

ed

[grandeman]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Questions.




Now I will say this, I find it odd that the national guard didn't evacuate the city to begin with. No offense to the police but trying to evacuate a city that size in a short period of time is out of the police's league. I don't understand this signing a waiver malarky and leaving them there.

Once again, a function and failure of the local and state gov't. What really gripes me in the whole senario is that the local and state govt's have the same welfare mentality that their fine citizens do. Why can't they stand up, take their bull by the horns and do something themselves? I realize they need much help (since their was NO planning on their part), but they are just like the able bodied Domers waiting for their rescuers and complaining the whole time. What a joke. This isn't what America is about and it's time the taxpayers of this country make a stand and get the politicians of their butts and put a stop to it. Problem is, if you state the problem and push for change, you're instantly labeled a racist. Personally, I don't care if you're skin is purple with pink stipes, I'm for helping those that want to help themselves and leave those that don't to their own destiny.

[Junctionfan]

Actually gentlemen, I am not even so upset at Bush anymore because even he was a little P.Oed at the fact that it was taking too long.

I am wondering how useful FEMA is right now. I wonder instead of bringing them in post disaster, let the govenors automatically make it a national guard operation and they can bring folk like the Red Cross, Center for infectious diseases, Army Corp of Engineers and what ever else they might need, at their disposal.

L.General Honeres is extremely quick and very efficient with what he is doing. I really like his leadership and so do the citizens stuck in New Orleans.

I heard that the military was asked why didn't they go in in the first place and they responded "FEMA didn't ask them to" so clearly that agency needs either to be reviewed and reorganized or just disbanded and let the National Guard take charge immediately and let them and the govenors call in federal agencies et al when it is time.

The National Guard has their own communications and their own stuff and when in charge, don't have to go through the beuracratic malarchy that a government agency would go through if they were in charge as FEMA was supposed to be.

Just in, I am glad to hear that Bush is sending the Marines among other units under leadership of Honeres. Maybe he could send foreign aid in with the full understanding that the National Guard is in charge (Honeres).

[dekemd]

Foxnews is reporting that the authorityies temporarily stop the evacuation of the Superdome with about 2000 people left, so that 700 people and employees could be evacuated from the Hyatt Hotel. Here is a quote from the article:

"At one point Friday, the evacuation was interrupted briefly when school buses rolled up so some 700 guests and employees from the Hyatt Hotel could move to the head of the evacuation line — much to the amazement of those who had been crammed in the stinking Superdome since last Sunday.

"How does this work? They (are) clean, they are dry, they get out ahead of us?" exclaimed Howard Blue, 22, who tried to get in their line. The National Guard blocked him as other guardsmen helped the well-dressed guests with their luggage.

The 700 had been trapped in the hotel, next to the Superdome, but conditions were considerably cleaner, even without running water, than the unsanitary crush inside the dome. The Hyatt was severely damaged by the storm. Every pane of glass on the riverside wall was blown out."

Why was this you ask? Because that is where the Mayor set up his base of operations. It was given a priority supposedly to give room for police, firefighters and other officials. I don't see that this gives those evacuated a free ticket to the front of the line.

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

What the hell is wrong with you dude? I hope I'm out of line hear but you really don't critisize a man who has had no sleep, low clean water, rampid crime, excriment and urine everywhere, near dead or dying bodies rotting and being feasted on by rats, listening to suffering and plees of mercy.

It didn't take more then 48 hours to get supplies to Indonesia during the Tsunami but 5 days to get security forces and supplies into your own city? They did take too long. You would have to be a half-wit.

I just he learned that Fidel Castro has offered and mobilized 2600 doctors if needed; 2600! If Bush doesn't except this, he is a bigger schmuk then I thought he was.

What the hell is wrong with me? I would have to be a nit wit......<I was in the process of explaining my witless point of view, but I think that Ed has done a much better job...thanks Ed..who by the way is much closer to this then both of us...>

So instead let's talk some realities......

First, I am extremely upset that this preventable tragedy has occured. Preventable because it did not have to end up like this. This is the three little pigs on a grand scale. If you don't take the time and spend the money to build the house right, then you're going to be depending on those that did to save your bacon when the big bad wolf comes a knockin'. And on short term note.....the big bad wolf didn't sneak up on them like the Tsunami did.....it came with warning......and on a long term note...the Gulf coast happens to be haven for wolves of this kind....they just haven't chosen to prey on the NOLA piggies for awhile.... so living in the straw house has it's drawbacks eventually.....

Now let's talk about response...... You don't place anything near the epicenter that you expect to use later.....and that includes people..National Guard, FEMA guys, etc.....or they become casualties too. It's that simple. Bridges are down, power is out, roads flooded. So you need boats and helicopters...right? Where do helicopters that expect to live during hurricanes? They go away where the hurricane isn't and come back. They don't get buried in little holes, and hangars don't stand up to gale force winds real well. It takes time. Boats too....if you expect them to survive you move them or lose them. Plain and simple. Once it's over, you assess the situation, try to affect immediate life threatening rescues and marshall resources. Prioritization.....or triage let's say.....folks not in immediate threat of being swept away can wait a bit. If they can walk and talk to reporters, then they are not an emergency.....they can wait. Folks on a roof top surrounded by water get help first. And when they choose to shoot at the helicopter when it comes....it ain't coming back.

Infrastructure is key...many roads are impassable, rail lines have to be cleared, soft ground cannot be used as a landing field for heavy aircraft. Stuff has to be done methodically or resources get wasted and spread out. You have to also look at the resources you are being offered and try to not bring in too much because, rescuers themselves require support...shelter, food, water..etc....and there becomes a point where there get to be too many manage and direct and logistics strain in itself. Some say put it on ships standing offshore....so the ships now have to ride out a hurricane...ever been in a hurricane on a ship...I have and its no fun. Providing the ship and it supplies are not damaged, the crew is in no shape to do anything but recover themselves.

There's alot more involved than swooping down and magically grabbing everyone...alot more. And I know that. Its hard painful work to decide where assets get placed first. All we see is what the networks choose to show and they show the worst. Shepard Smith, plugged into Fox central is just as capable of telling folks to get to the Superdome as is anyone, but chooses to whine about the lack of help. He's not helping, just fanning the flames.

Lots of countries are offering to help. That's great and truly appreciated. Some we could use, some we don't need. Like more people there...like I said more people starts to saturate the area becoming a logistics drain. It's not meant to slight anyone. But a methodical and rational approach has to be taken to sort the resources.

So do I choose to not be overly sympathetic to the mayor of NOLA...sure. He was simply hoping to get through his term with nothing like this occuring.....he bet on status quo and lost. Blaming those trying to pick up the pieces isn't helping either. You are where you are, they are at ground zero....cut them some slack and give them the benefit of the doubt that they might have a big picture in mind.

Dan

But Dan, didn't they already train for that scenario? What kind of timetable did they expect? I'm of course talking about FEMA.

[Junctionfan]

Questions.

Who is responsible for disasters? Who was to give the majority of money supposedly to upgrade the leves and get flood gates? How long does it take to activate the national guard and send them to the distance even have way across the country?

Now I will say this, I find it odd that the national guard didn't evacuate the city to begin with. No offense to the police but trying to evacuate a city that size in a short period of time is out of the police's league. I don't understand this signing a waiver malarky and leaving them there.

I imagine an inquiry will be held when it's all done.

[Anonymous]

I am sitting here airbrushing and have the radio on to Coast 2 Coast, the Art Bell, George Noory stuff. I am amazed, people actually have secret government tests theories.[alien]

I also heard the Mayor's speech again, pretty sad that not once does he take even a hint of blame or fault. This is a man in major denial. I thought our city had local government problems, but this is too much. They asked why he wouldn't let school bus drivers drive buses, he pooh-poohed the idea, claims that someone in the upper government needs to take care of this. He doesn't feel his people should or can do it. Even this guy wants handouts, of course he is already asking for money.

If I was the Govenor of Texas, I would be asking for reimbursment from LA once they get their $$ going, no reason you guys in TX should have to eat all the costs for the public aid money.

[Anonymous]

you have to wonder sometimes if this isn't a way to let the welfare 'problem' take care of itself some, if you know what i mean

[Anonymous]

DSchmitt--

Good question. As was mentioned earlier, perhaps the good Mayor or the Governor would be so kind as to stop griping and blaming others long enough to educate us all as why that apparently didn't happen.

Don't know the answer but I can tell you they're bringing them over here by the busloads now.

[Anonymous]

If you pick up a starving dog and make him prosperous, he will not bite you; that is the principal difference between a dog and a man. -- Mark Twain

[DSchmitt]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dekemd

I've listened and listened to the mayor of NO complain of no help. In one interview he said the Feds need to go get all the Greyhound buses and get them down there. My question is what happened to all the NO city buses and school buses? Why weren't they taken out of the city to higher ground and have them ready to help evacuate?

I agree.

Also, many people claim the did not leave when the evacuation was ordered because they had no car or money to pay for transportation. Why weren't transit buses and school buses used to transport people out of the city before the disaster?

There have been thousands of acts of heroism both by emergency personel and residents of New Orleans doing what needed to be done. We will never hear of most of them. The press is emphasizing the negative.

Partisan politicians have already started play the blame game to try to gain political advantage. They should be ignored because they have nothing to contribute.

Throughout the country, relief organizations (both well known and obscure), churches, corporations and individules are working to provide material and monitary aid to the victims.

[Anonymous]

Apparently many of them are indeed LA welfare recipients who are displaced and have to get some funds to live. Others are disabled, elderly and sick persons who cannot be cut off, but someone has to clear the legal hurdles of making them eligible for Medicaid and essential prescription drugs over here. Some are regular and emergency food stamp recipients (even if they have money, getting it out of a bank so they can spend it may be a formidable task). And some are probably leeches (isn't that true everywhere?). I don't know how many the temporary local job markets can absorb--may try to get some info to answer your question and if I do, I'll put it in here. From what I've seen, the majority appear to people who are displaced and in desperate need of temporary help. I suspect quite a few over here at this time have little left except the clothes on their backs, and no reason to complain about what's being done for them.

TX has very tight welfare laws--and provisions for bending them for disaster relief. This issue is complicated because it crosses a state line.

This is an effort that cannot be accomplished in a one hour time slot with 4 commercial breaks. And it seems that more and more people seem to think and expect that things can be made to happen that fast in real life.

RE MT, in so many words: Help a dog--you have a friend for life. Help a man..... (you know the rest)

A scholarship would be a good start.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by drephpe

According to my wife, who should know because she works with the issue, TX has added approximately 26,000 new clients to the welfare rolls in the last 2 days, and that number is expected to skyrocket over the next week. And with only a hope of the state being reimbursed by either LA or the feds, so at this point their welfare is being paid for by TX taxpayers and, indirectly financially displaced TX welfare recipients. We're all happy to do it--no griping about it from our side-the welcome mat is out, as Ed has indicated. So under the circumstances, they have no right to gripe about the accommodations or turnaround time for sign-up and benefit receipt offered to them over here.

I wonder how many applying for aid, were on aid in NO-LA? Hopefully Texas is not allowing welfare leeches and expects those on welfare to find employment, here in Illinois they will only give you so long, if your a male, you're pretty much SOL, females and then they have to have a child.

QUOTE: Reminds me of Mark Twain's exposition of the difference between a man and a dog.

I have never heard that one, please share it.[:)]

QUOTE: Give the 14 year old kid in the johnboat a medal!

No more then a medal, let's hope someone keeps track and get's him a scholarship, and steer him towards the public safety field, he would be a great addition.