Longest Train You've Ever Seen

[Anonymous]

Glad to see Zardox and Tough198 also know that old Georgia line song!

Seriously though, both CSX and NS like to run long coal trains in southern WV. 150 to 180 cars is not uncommon. It was pretty cool the first time I heard a detected go off announcing "total axle count: 6-1-2"

Many years ago, the N&W regularly ran coal trains over 200 cars, and once tried to run a 500 car coal train from Williamson, WV to Portsmouth, OH. The experiment proved very unsuccessful, however. I think they ran out of fingers to count all the broken drawbars. I'm sure the article jeaton refers to would tell more about that.

Scott Lothes
Cleveland, OH

[jeaton]

Jim
An interesting story. I gather they don't use distributed power and if that's the case, the cars must have the drawbars from BIG. That outfit has to be the envy of every RR manager whose lone idea to improve efficiency is layoffs.

Back on the general subject of long trains, Ed King wrote a story a while back in Trains about his experiences on the N&W when they tested long coal drags. He wrote what it takes to them moving, and gives good reasons why it never went beyond the test stage. You could probably find reference to the article in the Trains Mag index.

[zardoz]

Orex, a specialised business unit of Spoornet, is the sole conveyer of South Africa's export iron ore, operating along an 861 kilometre railway line, the world's second largest of its kind, between Sishen and Saldanha. It is acknowledged as a world leader in providing heavy haul logistics solutions for a growing market.

Its expertise is based on extensive experience with heavy loads and thorough research into train handling techniques and mechanical phenomena.

Orex recently set a new world record for the longest train and heaviest load, with a total load of 68,640 tons of ore and a length of over 7.5 km. It has also established records for the longest continuous transportation of a heavy load and the highest average speed over the distance.

The iron ore is transported in trains 2.2 km long and comprising 210 wagons each carrying 85 tons of ore.

Only a driver and his assistant, working a nine to ten-hour shift, man each train. At the end of a shift they stop at a modern rest facility at Loop 10, known as Halfway, before taking over the next train for the return journey to their home depots.

The traffic control office at Salkor, the southern end station, constantly monitors the progress of each train and maintains communication with the drivers by microwave radio.

Because of the length of each train and the tremendous traction of the powerful locomotives it is virtually impossible for the driver to detect whether the train is complete and whether a fault may have developed along the way.

For this reason the line is equipped at both ends of each loop with so-called "last vehicle detectors" (LVDs) which sense an impulse from an electric coil attached to the last wagon of each train and triggers a signal to the control room indicating that the train is complete when it arrives at and also when it leaves a loop.

In addition, if a wagon has left the track or if some part of the truck has come loose and is being dragged along, this can be picked up by "derail or drag detectors" (DEDs) located at 5 km intervals along the entire length of the track and once again the condition is transmitted to the control room.

In the event of a fault, the driver would be radioed to stop the train immediately and investigate the problem. On board the first locomotive is a small motorcycle that he and his assistant can use to inspect the entire length of the train with a minimum of delay.

"Hot box" detectors, located at strategic points along the rail, can also detect whether wagon wheels or axles are running hot.

Monitoring of rail temperatures is also essential in the case of chrome manganese rails, which may break at temperatures around 0 oC. These rails, imported at the time from Germany, were flash butt and thermal welded together to form a continuous line without breaks from Sishen to Saldanha. They rest on concrete sleepers, of which some 1,5 million were used.

In addition to temperatures ranging from minus 8 to plus 45 oC, the area along the route is subjected to harsh weather conditions, including severe lightning and thunderstorms, sandstorms, rain, sea mist and humidity of up to 95 percent. Winds of 80 km/h, gusting up to 120 km/h blow regularly, while periodic damage to the overhead power lines, including steel masts being blown over, indicate that gusts can reach as high a 250 km/h.

For all intents and purposes the line may be regarded as running in a straight line. There are only three major bends with a minimum radius of 1 000 metres.


Here is the link if you are interested:
http://www.moeller.co.za

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Tough198

You might have to be old or a hillbilly or both to get this one, but, the longest train I ever saw, went down a georgia line, the engine past at 6 o'clock and the cab past by at 9.

For the full version of the song, go to:

http://www.smsu.edu/folksong/MaxHunter/1122/

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by UPTRAIN

I had one or 12,000 feet and 8 locomotives a few years ago....12 hours of hell!!!

Those multi-unit trains sure look cool, but certainly are a bear to operate. In SE Wisconsin, we do not have any terrain that would ever require 8 units; consequently, with that much power, most of the time you never get out of the second, third or maybe fourth notch, except when accelerating. So you have this 1600 ton mass on the head-end not working enough power to keep the slack properly streched. And if the train is blocked poorly (empties in front, loads behind), and you have a knuckle or drawbar failure just waiting to happen.

[UPTRAIN]

I had one or 12,000 feet and 8 locomotives a few years ago....12 hours of hell!!!

[Train Guy 3]

I saw 203 loaded coal cars roll by on the Old Virginian in 1997.

[zardoz]

Tim-
There is no "rule" per se, limiting the number of cars per engine. The only rule would be common sense and experience with the terrain.

Most railroads have profiled their track, and computed a necessary horsepower-to-tonnage ratio (hp/ton). On the CNW's Wisconsin division, our biggest grade was 1.4%, so we had a .5hp/ton requirement. Of course, when the ratio is pushed to the max, everything must be working 100% or stalling is a possibility.

When we would bring a Sheboygan coal train up West Allis hill (in Milwaukee) with only two locomotives, the train would only be doing 3-4 mph by the time it reached the top of the hill (much to the delight of motorists in West Allis). If it was a snowy or very damp night, the locomotives would frequently slip while going over the numerous grade crossing in town, usually resulting in a stall (even more to the delight of motorists).

Other factors to be considered:
temperature (very cold rail and wheels have less adhesion);
relative humidity (a damp or wet rail will offer less adhesion);
curvature of track (the wheel flanges rub against the inside of the outside rail, causing drag);

I understand that the new locos have very elaborite wheel-slip control systems (I never had a chance to operate them). In my day, what sometimes determined whether a train would stall or not was the experience of the engineer. One trick we used was to ever-so-slightly hold a few pounds on the loco brakes while pulling uphill; this kept the wheels a bit warmer, kept the wheels a lot cleaner, and held back slipping ever so slightly. Of course, too much engine brake would negate any of the above advantages, so here is where the skill of the engineer came into play. Another technique was to NOT use too much sand on the rail. Most engineers simply activated the sander and left it on throughout the entine hill. But if the sanders were working good, that amount of sand also would add a bit of rolling resistance to the train, negating any advantage the extra traction provided.

[Anonymous]

During the aftermath of the Conrail split I ran a couple of really long trains. The longest I remember was 231 cars mixed freight with a CR SD60I, NS SD38 ( hi nose, hump unit-no dynamics), NS SD40-2 and a CR GP38-2 for power. What a dog that train was. Made for a VERY long night. Didn't fit into any sidings either...

LC

[bnsfkline]

I have seen a NS train with about 150 5 unit well/spine/multi-purpose cars. Hmmmm 5x150....

[JoeKoh]

N&W used to run 5 or 6 engine frieghts through celina ohio on the old nkp line with 160 cars or so.have seen very long 3 engine csx intermodals through defiance too.
stay safe
Joe

[tree68]

About 180 empty hoppers (2 unit trains worth) southbound through Rantoul Ill in 1974 - headed from Chicago back to southern Illinois coal fields. Had 2 Geeps on the point, and they were pulling with all they had, which was just barely enough. There is a long upgrade coming into Rantoul southbound, and it was all they could do to pull it.

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Not the longest train I've ever seen but probably very challenging to the engineer, 108 loaded ore jennies on DM&IR heading down Proctor Hill to the ore docks with 2 SD9's up front.

[espeefoamer]

The longest train I ever saw was in June 1967,in Virginia,on the C&O.It was an empty train of 300 hoppers,pulled by 3 high hood Geeps.[8D]

[David3]

A four SD40-2 UP 166 car freight at Rochelle Illinois. What a great sound to hear them locos working hard!
Dave [:D][:D]

[trainfan1221]

Theongest trains I ever see are when Conrail (now CSX) are running intermodal equipment back to where they came from from the various yards around here. Usually heading back to Selkirk, I guess. They appear to be about 2-3 miles long, are all empty platforms, and basically are just a giant train of NOTHING!

[Anonymous]

well dose it have to be moving? cuz i saw a 300 car train siting on a really really long siding at a local conrail yard. think it was exactly 297 but im not sure...

[Anonymous]

Thanks for all the great replies, I have never seen a 200 car train (though I would love to). Most of my rail watching is done in southeastern Wisconsin where we have CN and UP mainlines and not too much else although I did see four Norfolk Southern engines pulling a very long coal train the other day but I was not able to get a good car count. Keep the stories and info coming!
Jeff

[edblysard]

Hi gdc,
The original plan was to cut the train up in the receiving yard, into cuts of 30, bring that around, shove 15 into a hold track, and switch 15, then grab the other 15, switch them, go get 30 more, so forth and so on. Sounds like a lot of time, but in reality, it would have taken less time to switch them all that way. But the yardmaster was insistent we clear that receiving track, swore he had a grain train about to die that needed it. Never saw the grain train show up. But part of the yardmaster productvity pay is based on how many receiving tracks they get cleared on their shift, so....and yes, its flat terrian here, this yard was built and designed in 1924, with steam switchers in mind, the leads are all level until you get to the first switch, then every thing on the righthand lead is on a slight incline down, the straight lead is level, and the yard body is slightly bowl shaped, with a left hand L shape to it all. You dont have to hammer the cars on the right side of the yard, the incline works like a mini hump, after six years switching the same leads, I "know" which tracks will roll easy, which ones you have to put some heat to. And my helper isnt quite human, this kids eats two cans of green beans and a can of tuna each meal, cold and raw. Yuck. His arms are about the size of my legs, if he ties something down, it isnt going to move unless you drag the wheels flat. There is another job working the top end, and all the tracks we switched into had cars in them already, my helper just added his brand of brakes to thoses already there. We did end up closing all the gaps in those tracks though. And where we normaly switch 150 to 250 cars a day on this job, we took all day to fini***heses. And I never saw that grain train arrive, I asked the yardmaster, he swore they died on the main. I dont know about your railroad, but down here, letting a dinky 80 car grain train die on a main line isnt a good carreer booster for a dispatcher..as to the number of cars, every day we drag out 120 car trains on average from the receiving tracks, but they are your normal mix of lights and heavys, we have a cut holding track in the yard where we shove a 40 car cut, and switch what we are left holding on to, then pick up that last 40 and switch them. Normaly, we cut them up over in the receiving track, bring half around, leave half. We have five receiving tracks, the longest hold 135 hoppers, the shortest holds 89. If the pins are fairly good, six or so to a pin, and the heavies are distributed sorta evenly through out, I will come around kicking with 60 cars, if the pins are a bunch of singles of doubles, I will slough a cut or two into the less used tracks. Kicking down one lead, then draging back to kick down another, one car at a time makes the day really long.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

Why didn't you take a shorter cut or put air on? I hope the terrain was perfectly flat. Still, it sounds risky. Maybe hard to imagine from the computer. How many hand brakes did you set up for the bumping post cars?
Regards, have a safe day. gdc

[Anonymous]

Tim, hopefully they are not running along side too far. Actually, if the slack between the cars is in as in shoving, the uncoupling pin will lift when the lever is raised, allowing the knuckle to open. When the engineer lets off the throttle, the cars uncouple and roll away. Some railroaders also call this drilling. You see this most commonly in flat yard switching. When the uncoupling lever has been lifted and the brakeman wants the cars to be released, he or she will tell the engineer to "kick 'em".
We once had a yard engineer named Whorley. The brakeman would say "Kick 'em, Whorley". Occasionally he'd get it backwards and say "Whirl 'em, Kickey".
The air hoses do not have to be uncoupled but the train line has to have been bled, in other words, no air in the train line. That would be similar to what Ed described earlier with his 140+ car cut with no air. That must have been a mother dog to handle.
Regards and have a safe day. gdc

[edblysard]

Hi Tim,
Yup, except we dont run, if the trainmaster is looking, running is against the rules, ha ha.., to better answer your question, yes, when you tell the engineer to "kick um" he notches the throttle out to take up the slack, then opens it wide to "kick" the cut of cars, the switchman, (me) pull the cut lever up on the correct number of cars, the uncoupler has a catch in it that will release the knuckle to allow it to piviot on the knuckle pin, so once you lift the lever up, the catch unlocks the knuckle, most of the time. If the "pin" as its called will not stay up by itself, you have to walk alongside, holding it up. Or if your engineer is serious about kicking, you jog or run. When you have enought speed up to get the cars to go where you want, you tell the engineer "that will do', and he applies the independent brake,(locomotive brake) to run the slack out and pop the whip. If it all works right, and it usually does, you can switch a lot of cars per hour, if you and your engineer have worked together for a while, and know each others rhythm. Having a good switchman helper, who stays one step ahead of you lining up the switches can even make this job fun, in a weird way. He actually controls how fast the job goes, if the switch isnt lined, you cant kick the cars, so the more cut-in the helper is, the better it is for us all. And it make no diffrence if the hoses are uncoupled or not, the cars air brakes have been bled off, and the glad hand,the ends of the hoses, are designed to pull apart from each other.
Stay frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

You might have to be old or a hillbilly or both to get this one, but, the longest train I ever saw, went down a georgia line, the engine past at 6 o'clock and the cab past by at 9.

[Anonymous]

gdc, When you say kicking, is there some one running along the side of the cars to pull the lever that uncouples the car? Are the air hoses already disconnected?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Longest train was any I have seen while waiting at a crossing just after taking a water pill!

[edblysard]

How true, you have to give your engineer twice the stopping distance your both used to, and it takes forever to work the cut down to a managable level...
Stay Frosty
Ed

[Anonymous]

Kicking 30 loads at a time is not an easy task, either. gdc

[edblysard]

Yup, done that, it makes a big diffrence. This was one of those "do it now" yardmaster moves....you knw, where he screwed up, and you end up pulling his butt out of the fire..
Ed

[Jackflash]

Ed we do some similar long, heavy, flat yard
work, what we do is air up the head 8 or 10
cars of the cut, with a heavy train it beats
just the independent brake. jackflash