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The Position of Sleepers in the Amtrak Consist

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The Position of Sleepers in the Amtrak Consist
Posted by dbasenberg on Friday, August 19, 2005 6:52 PM
I have ridden Amtrak sleepers many times, east of Chicago and west of Chicago. Please help me on this question. Why are sleepers positioned up front, next to the engine? In the "glory days" of passenger travel, we know, they were positioned at the rear. Don't tell me about steam engines, because they were carried like that with Diesel engines.
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Posted by Sterling1 on Friday, August 19, 2005 7:09 PM
It may have been railroad preference to put sleepers up front, maybe easier loading or switching. Then again I'm not too sure. Yeah i've seen Amtrak put their sleepers up front.
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Posted by passengerfan on Friday, August 19, 2005 7:52 PM
Several pre Amtrak streaml;iners carried sleepers forward the SILVER METEOR, SILVER COMET ,.SILVER STAR and CHAMPIONS come to mind and if I think about it could probably come up with some more.
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Posted by jeaton on Friday, August 19, 2005 8:34 PM
If it is important enough, you can ride the Capitol Limited from Washington to Chicago with the sleepers at the rear.

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Posted by eastside on Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:22 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dbasenberg

Please help me on this question. Why are sleepers positioned up front, next to the engine? In the "glory days" of passenger travel, we know, they were positioned at the rear.
I thought it had something to do with being convenient for passengers to board. If you boarded at Grand Central Terminal (and I've done this countless times), for example, to have had the sleepers at the front would have been quite a hike for the first class passengers. Not at all acceptable for a train like the 20th Century Limited. In addition, the observation car was meant to be convenient to the expensive seats, not the hoi polloi.

When I rode Amtrak's Empire Builder to Seattle my sleeping car was near the front but behind the coaches. Then the diner and lounge cars followed with more coaches and another sleeper. However, everything from the lounge back was later cut-off for Portland. In the case of the Seattle section, then you could say the sleepers were towards the end. I guess with Amtrak, distinctions in service by class isn't as important.

If there's one carryover that I've noticed, it's that the sleepers are closer to the dining car -- the coach passengers have a longer walk.
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Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:43 AM
In the era of the dedicated end-of-train streamlined observation car, you would have been well-advised not to occupy the very end of the train. On curves, a distinct crack-the-whip effect made travel more jiggly, though probably not more dangerous.

On the other hand, what is more fun than sitting in the observation (club) car and watching the engines up front negotiate curves? Way cool!

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Posted by eastside on Saturday, August 20, 2005 12:51 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626

In the era of the dedicated end-of-train streamlined observation car, you would have been well-advised not to occupy the very end of the train. On curves, a distinct crack-the-whip effect made travel more jiggly, though probably not more dangerous.

On the other hand, what is more fun than sitting in the observation (club) car and watching the engines up front negotiate curves? Way cool!
On the 20th Century Limited, the most expensive suite of all, the master bedroom, was in the observation car. The cars with the most expensive rooms were always after the diner.
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Posted by siberianmo on Saturday, August 20, 2005 1:05 AM
Hmmmmmmm - last time (within a couple of years) I traveled aboard the Texas Eagle out of Chicago, my sleeper car was at the rear. Same for the return trip.
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Posted by TomDiehl on Saturday, August 20, 2005 10:40 AM
[
If there's one carryover that I've noticed, it's that the sleepers are closer to the dining car -- the coach passengers have a longer walk.


Probably because Amtrak considers sleeping car passengers First Class, because of the extra charge for the room.

Or it could be advertising. The coach passengers have to walk through the sleeping cars and may get a quick glance of the accomodations and may want to take them next time.
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Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Monday, August 22, 2005 9:15 AM
As mentioned above, sleepers and other first-class cars tended to be positioned at the rear of the train, although there were exceptions, SAL being a well-known example. Variations on this positioning tended to be based on switching needs, such as on the Lake Shore Limited.
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Posted by dldance on Monday, August 22, 2005 1:51 PM
The Texas Eagle actually has sleepers at both ends of the train. The last sleeper and coach are through cars for the Sunset Limited and are changed at San Antonio. I suspect the position of the cars is for switching convenience as the passengers are generally asleep during that operation.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 22, 2005 2:12 PM
I noticed during my last ride from Chicago to Glenwood Springs, Colorado, that my sleeper followed directly behind the crew car.
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Posted by Sunnyland on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 11:03 AM

I wondered about this because both times  I have rode City of NOLA, sleepers were on the front.  I love train horns but not when I am trying to sleep, was really bad on a recent trip, almost continuous in MS.  Next time I will bring ear plugs, They were on rear for Builder and Starlight in 2003 and Chief in 2005.  Have  read crew car is now on the head end, so they keep sleepers there too.  pre-Amtrak I don't even remember crew having a car, they slept in a seat usually at rear of coaches.  From what I have been reading, most of Amtrak trains are now at the head end.  Dad always said they kept the Pullman coaches on the rear as less chance of going off the tracks during an accident or derailment.  I rode in a sleeper with 2 friends to San Fran on UP/SP City of St. Louis, and we had the last car coming home.  When we backed into our Union Station, which was stub end, got to see the N&W conductor come back and toot the whistle as we backed in, the Pullman conductor stepped  aside.  Had heard the passenger conductor was in charge not the Pullman one and saw this was true.  He only took care of our Pullman cars.  

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Posted by wjstix on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 12:42 PM

In steam days, first class cars (sleepers or parlor cars) were generally towards the rear most likely so they were farthest away from the smoke and noise of the engine. Pre-air-conditioning, I would imagine the cars close to the engine got a lot of gritty soot in the windows (and on the passengers).

Before Amtrak, the diner was often in the middle of the train so it could keep the coach passengers in the cars ahead of the diner away from the first class passengers in the sleeping cars in the rear of the train. On some trains, only the first class passengers could go to the observation car / lounge at the rear; coach passengers weren't supposed to go beyond the diner.

It may be, since neither situation applies to Amtrak, that they just set up each train in whatever manner works best for switching or assembling that particular train.

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Posted by BaltACD on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 12:48 PM

wjstix
Pre-Amtrak, the diner was often in the middle of the train so it could keep the coach passengers in the cars ahead of the diner away from the first class passengers in the sleeping cars in the rear of the train. On some trains, only the first class passengers could go to the observation car / lounge at the rear; coach passengers weren't supposed to go beyond the diner.

In the spirit of efficiency - Amtrak in many cases do not turn trains at the destination.  What arrives destination with sleepers on the head end, departs back to the other end of the line with the sleepers on the rear end.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 1:33 PM

On my last few trips, the sleepers on the Califronia Zephyr and Capitol Limited were at the head of the train both ways. The Lake Shore Limited has the coaches between the sleepers, with all the Boston cars together--and the meal car next to the New York sleepers and a lounge next to theBoston sleeper.

Last spring, when I went to Meridian, the sleepers and baggage car were on the rear both ways.

Two years ago, when I rode the Texas Eagle from Los Angeles to Chicago, my sleeper was on the rear.

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 2:18 PM

Not all trains had the sleepers on the rear--the Silver Meteor had the Miami ciaches on the rear, next to the observation car. The St. Petersburg and Venice cars were more in the center, and the Miami sleepers, with their lounge, were at the head end. That arrangement expedited the switching that was done in Wildwood; a combine for St. Pete was added to the West Coast cars in Wildwood.

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Posted by alphas on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 9:04 PM

I rode the Silver Meteor in the middle 1960's.  I believe its car palcement was due to its being split in Wildwood, FL between the train's east & west coast parts.  

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Posted by Deggesty on Wednesday, November 21, 2018 9:16 PM

Yes; having all of the West Coast cars together made it possible for quick work--uncouple everything behind the Miami sleepers, move over and couple the West Coast cars to their engine and combine, bring the Miami diner and coaches back and couple them to the forward cars--and away you go! 

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Posted by tcwright973 on Thursday, November 22, 2018 8:54 AM

jeaton
If it is important enough, you can ride the Capitol Limited from Washington to Chicago with the sleepers at the rear.
 

I've never seen the Capitol Limited going west bound through Pittsburgh, but have seen it going east bound when running late. For example, the last 2 Saturdays. The sleepers are always on the front right after the baggage car. Is it possible the entire train is not turned around in Chicago?

Tom

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Posted by Deggesty on Thursday, November 22, 2018 10:56 AM

The last few times that I rode the Capitol Limited, I walked backto the diner for all of the sleepers were rught behind the baggage car. The same arrangement holds for the California Zephyr. Four years ago, except for the car with crew accommodations, the sleepers on the Zephyr were on the rear (I had roomette in that car, and had to walk through the coaches to get to the diner). On that trip, one of the coach attendants also attended the roomettes in that car. 

It is my impression that both trains are turned at both ends of their runs. 

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Posted by bratkinson on Friday, November 23, 2018 10:39 PM

On Superliner equipped trains, it's been my experience over the years that the sleepers are always in the front of the train.  For the Sunset, Texas Eagle, and Empire Builder, this is a necessity as those trains split and the rear cars either switch trains (train 421/422 SL<->TE) or go to separate destinations (27/28 to Portland).  The consists are turned at each end to prevent sleepers in the middle, etc. 

But why does the Southwest Chief, California Zephyr, Coast Starlight, City of New Orleans and Capitol Limted have the sleepers in front?  My guess is that it simplifies 'train swaps' (minus cars split off - 27/28 & 421/422) at their endpoint cities (except EMY and WAS) should it become necessary due to late trains and whatever else pops up.  The downside of this is that except at SEA, the sleepers and therefore the dining car are farthest away from the statioin which requires a longer walk by the passengers as well as for the food supply vehicles to travel.

On single level trains, except for the Boston section of the Lakeshore Limited, the sleepers are usually (and I emphasize USUALLY) at the rear.  However, except for the Lakeshore Ltd, sometimes the consists will be reversed for 6 months, or maybe a year or longer, presumably to 'balance out' any direction-of-travel related 'wear and tear' issues, particularly on the trucks, wheels, etc.  On occassion, due to late trains, substitute trains, etc, it may not be possible to turn the train at the endpoint, thus necessitating all the seats to be manually turned around.  But that's a rarity, in my opinion.

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