RR lingo

[Anonymous]

Having read all posts, and now being thoroughly stimulated, I have to ask these questions. Being an amature and an engineer not of the train sort, I need to know some of the dialect meaning real rail men use. 1) Bull?
2) Foamer??
3) Gumshoe???
4) This whole sentence....After doubleing one hill and tripleing another we only made half our run before we hogged.

I know English pretty well and am learning to spreken ze Deutch, {I too am proudly of German (Note the capital G) descent] but this RR lingo has really got me how to say, puzzled in rr??

[BRAKIE]

Here ya go!

Bull,Railroad Police officer,Railroad Special Agent.Also known as cinder dicks,railroad cops,Tramp chasers,Hobo chasers,head busters, company spies,and railroad guards..

Foamer,A guy that knows everything about railroads and can always be found track side-others may give you other meanings for the same word.

Gumshoe,A privite investigator,a Police Detective a police officer,railrord cop.

[Anonymous]

#4 means the crew had to cut the train in half,use the engines to take each half over the hill,then re-assemble it.I suppose if the hill was real steep,they would cut the train into three parts.This work has to be done in less then 12 hours.If it takes more then 12,they have to stop the train and wait for the next crew.

[sooblue]

Now with distributed power and RC wouldn't it be possible to eliminate the need to double and triple a hill?
maybe it wouldn't be cost effective to have a unit stationed on site that could be used as a helper up the hill on one train and used for dynamic braking down the hill on another.
Or the unit could be left at the top of the hill for the next train to bring it down with RC to use as a helper again.
However, time is money too. 12 hours to get your train to the top of a hill sounds like a looser in the long run. An engine gets paid for eventually.
What is the RRs stant on this?

[Anonymous]

My question blue is: how do you propose that RCO be used to bring the unit down from the top of the hill? I may be wrong, but at this time RCOs cannot be used on main line. Thank god!

[edblysard]

Hi Ya,
Bull, railroad cop, of the bulli***ype. Always first on the scene, has his nose in everyones business, walks as talks like john wayne, full of stories and often full of bull
Foamer, rail fans, ofter found trackside, telling everyone how many rivets a certain car has, who built it and when, gets so excited by bring near railroads and talking so much they foam at the mouth, as if rabid, usually treated as if they are.
Gumshoe, railroad cop, has gum stuck to his shoe that slows him down, always shows up 1/2 hour after all the excitement is over.
As to doubling and trippling a hill, means to break you train into manageable parts to ascend a steep grade, often as a result of engine problems you cant pull the whole thing up the grade.
Hogging, or the hogs getting you, as in being out in the boonies when you reach you limit on hours of service, your where the hogs can get you, because your so far out, or didnt make it back to a terminal or tie up point before the hours of service ran out.
Any help?
Ed

[Jackflash]

Doubling the hill, its usually not done by design
most likely you have lost an engine (or two)
the hill might not be a bad one normally if
everything is working properly. jackflash

[Anonymous]

Ed, your definition of hogging is a little different from what I learned. "Hogging" is a derivative of the slang word for engineers as "hoggers". In sequence, the slang for the hours of service law was called the "Hog Law" ergo, exceeding the hours of service was called "hogging". Regards and have a safe day. gdc

[edblysard]

Hi gdc, I sorta figured there would be about as many responses on hogging as there are railroads. Seem each one has a little diffrent explaination. As I have only been at this six years, I dont apply any one as the definitive explaination.
Stay frosty
Ed

[Anonymous]

Hi, I made the apparently confusing comments about doubling and hogging. I was responding to a question about snow plows. Doubling is,indeed, cutting the train in two or ,heaven forbid more pieces, to make a hill. Hogging is slang for hoglaw witch means, as earlier stated, exceeding the hours of service law.
Doubling isn't standard procedure here but usually the result of something gone wrong. In this particular case we were made up to go south with enough power for the ruling grade but the genius in the yard office didn't account for the 20" of snow that had just fallen. I couldn't even make it out of the yard and requested permission to reduce (shorten our train) but was denied. "We'll get the switcher to push you out". was his reply. "That's great" I said "we might as well keep him all night 'cause if I can't get out of the yard I sure as h*ll aint making the hills!!"
"Do what you can. Just get that traffic out of here." Was all he said.
Result. We tripled one hill and doubled the other and "hogged" half way to our final terminal. What a night! Sorry for the confusion. Slofr8.

[bfsfabs]

Hi Ed,
When I was a kid, 1940s, a gumshoe was a private detective. So named because they, in the movies and pocket book stories at least, wore "gum" rubber soled shoes to facilitate sneaking around quietly. English is wild enough by it's self. Let alone going off into American and then downwards into American English slang or jargon. Sure is fun to watch though.
Lowell

[edblysard]

Yes,I too have heard that explaination.
The Kings English, American English, then American English slang, (odd word in itself), and then to whatever you would name what kids speak today? Our use of language skills has slowly declined, each new generation seem to alter useage and meaning, lowering it bit by bit. But, the "gumshoes" here at the port could not sneak up on themselves, much less a criminal, they make almost as much noise as the trains do. And they never show up when needed or call, untill the excitement it over.
I belive the term is also applied to railroad poilce because most are part of the carriers "private police force", ie private decetives, with jusridiction only on railroad property. So your explaination seems to fit the jargon better. I was poking fun at my roads police...
Have fun, stay safe,
Ed

[Jackflash]

Where I work, a crew getting close to the
12 hour HOS, we would say the Dogs are after
them, a crew caught out of the terminal and
expired on the 12 hours HOS, it is said the
Dogs got them, and, a crew sent to relieve the
expired crew, is called a Dog catch crew.
Not Hog but Dog. Other places it might be called
Hog law, I dont know, jackflash

[Anonymous]

Ed,
At NS, the police officers are federal commissioned law officers. As such they have jursidiction over state and local police on railroad property. Also, as federal officers, they have arrest powers and are bound by the same rules any other police, i.e. Miranda warnings, search and seizure, probably cause, etc. Since a terminal road is not interstate, I'm not sure about your police. Regards, gdc

[Anonymous]

This particular run was in a snowstorm in northern Maine, where the new owners apparently didn't think the plows were needed. The post is in here somewhere but I'm not sure where.

[wabash1]

well not to be the bearer of bad news but we found out the other night from reliable sources that rco are allowed out on the main. and not only allowed the bn is doing it and has been doing it for some time.

as far as railroad police they are all supposed to be able to do the same as ns police. just what i been told by relialbe sources.

[Anonymous]

Absolutely Ed. Thanks to you and all
Bud

[Anonymous]

I am sure I was the only one confused. I only worked for a company that built rail stuff, so although I am somewhat familiar with the equipment, the operations of that equipment and the men like you and my past grandpa, I am not. So I may have many questions concerning abbreviations and lingo, but I hope you will help me learn all I can here. I have waited about 20 years to finally be in a position of being able to get a G scale started and I want to make it as close to real as possible. Thanks for all your help.Bud

[edblysard]

Quite so, our Police dept is headed by a federal commissioned police officer, and all our officers are bonded and licenced. But due to a odd part of Texas law, the only time they may chase and apprehend someone off Port Property is if the person commited a crime on port property, and the officer pursues them off property. Jurisdiction on property is soley theirs, with the exception of Texas Rangers, who have omni-jurisdiction within Texas, U.S Marshals, same thing applies on a federal level, and weird as it sounds, Officers of the Texas Parks and Wildlife Service, (game wardens). Harris County Sheriffs Dept has jurisdiction over the entire county, then H.P.D. within the City of Houston, then PTRA Police on port property. Although Texas dosnt have a State police force, we do have the Texas Rangers, with investigative and enforcement powers like the U.S. Marshals. And a branch of the Rangers, the Texas Dept Of Public Safety, refered to as State Troopers. If involved in a "hot pursuit", a term grossly misunderstood by the public in general, police officers and deputies here are allowed by law to disreguard jurisdictional boundires, as long as the crime falls under a felony act. Put another way, an H.P.D. officer or a PTRA officer could chase you all the way across Texas, if he witnessed you commit a felony act. The captain of our police has a federal commision, the other officers a state commision. They too are required to operate under the same conditions, regulations and laws as other police officers in reguards to Miranda, search and seizure, and probaly cause. I assume the NS police force has jurisdiction on all NS property, regardless of what state, and therefore could excerise their powers anywhere on your system. As you pointed out, we are not involved in interstate commerce, and therefore our officer do not need to hold a federal commision.
Stay Frosty,
Ed

[edblysard]

Hi Bud,
In case you wernt sure, I was having a little fun ther also. Gumshoe, bull, all refer to railroad police, as you have seen on other post, somewhat more colorful names exsist for them. Doubleing hills was explianed rather well on several. As to the term foamer, its is a slightly derogatory term , along with FTN's, (you can fill in the initals, the fourms system wont allw me to spell it out), used on thoses railfans who seem to get a little more excited than normal. The porper term for people who dont railroad, but get their groove on over trains is railfans. The former bothers me, I have seen them actually squating under a railcar, inside the track, with a tape measure, taking measurment of a tank car, and after I chewed them out, I chased them off, with threats to get the gumshoes after them next time I catch them on property. The latter, I dont mind at all, most are very careful around the tracks, never touch switches, cars or equipment, and wait till we take a break to talk to us. Most ask intelligent questions in regards to what we do, how we do it, and why. If they want a photo, or a closer look at a car, and there is no danger to them, ie live track, I will usually let them snap a few and get a closer look. Foamers, on the other hand, will walk right on to the property as if its public property, wander around in live yard tracks, and my pet peeve, climb onto railcars. They dont mind interupting us in the middle of our work, and seem to be highly offended when we chase them away. Their mindset is beyond me. Its one of those things where courtsy counts.
And I model also, HO, no layout yet, but lots of models, I need to lose at least one kid first, then I get her room...
Have fun, be safe,
Ed

[Anonymous]

NS police do have systemwide jurisdiction. gdc

[sooblue]

That would explain having to section the train by three. It's a wonder that steel wheels on steel rail would work when dry let alone icy. It can be understood a little though when you see a pickup truck pull a loaded frieght car down the tracks with little effort.

[sooblue]

If the RR needed such a system it wouldn't be hard at all to set up. Assuming that an engine could be left on site it would have to be in a dedicated siding perhaps one that paralleled the main up the hill. If not that wouldn't even be an issue. RC and a GPS landsat system would be all you need beside fuel.
Many trucking companies know exactly where their trucks are at all times and what condition it is in even down to how the engine is running, and now they can even adjust the performance of the engine while in use. Isn't EMD equipping their new engines with that same technology?
Or is it GE? Anyway, use the engine to add to braking or to help push and than leave it for the next crew. It would save big time not only for the RRs but just think of the work it would save the crew to not have to break a train to get it up a hill. Some new technology should be embraced if it helps ALL concerned.

[Anonymous]

Do you have any brass models? gdc

[edblysard]

No, remember, i work for a small railroad, (thats a pun, I think) to expensive. But man some of the ones I have seen make you almost drool. Did scratch build a UP SW10, took photos at Hardy streey yard, measured it out, found a shop guide with builders elevation. Built a brass frame, powered it with athern sw9 motor, used a cannon cab, had to turn flywheels dowm to make them fit. Runs good on my test track, shame on me for no layout. But am improving my skills with each one, so there is hope...
Ed

[Anonymous]

Ed, the dicussion of railroad police reminded me of a incident a Intermodol trucker told me. At a NS yard on the South side of Chicago they were having a problem with Transits (Hobo's)hanging out. It was becoming a safty issue so the NS Police brought in gaurd dogs to chase them off the property. One night a group of Transit's gathered, so the rail police were called in. The railroad officer arrived on the seen and released the dogs. The yard was cleared out in short order. The officer feeling proud about what a good job he had done was grinning from ear to ear. About this time the Yardmaster came out of his office telling the railroad officer to get himself and those gaurd dogs out of his yard. Not only did the dogs chase off the Transit's but also all of his Yard crew as well!
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Tim, I don't want to burst your bubble, but that story related to you by the trucker was 99% fabrication. Guard dogs are used to assist officers in apprehending thieves who threaten not only workers at the yard, but loot trailers and containers. One NS officer caught two subjects looting a baggage car on a stopped Amtrak train. They were armed with several shotguns and pistols. The dogs are an absolute necessity and, now, the criminals are showing up with dogs of their own who attack and kill the NS dogs. The area to which you are referring is the former Conrail facility and the stretch of track on one side is known coloqually as The Ho Chi Minh Trail. It is lined with a 20 Foot chain link fence lined on top with barbed wire. You can patch a hole just to have another cut the same day. It can take as many as seven officers to successfully depart a train, just to watch out for looters. These people open doors on moving cars, throw goods out to waiting accomplices and jump off leaving trailer and container doors open and swinging back and forth. Most of the time, the looters just open doors looking for the good stuff.
The locals sometimes approach the NS officers at nearby fast foods, etc. with street jargon. They say, "We're going to get paid tonight". That means they are going to hit you that evening, catch us if you can! If an officer does apprehend one of these subjects, it usually takes two officers an entire shift to transport and see through booking with a magistrate. That, in turn, takes those officers off patrol. CPD is little help because they are dealing with much more serious issues. This area is near the Sibrini-Green project not far from Comisky Park.
Tim, we all take this matter very seriously, as much so as crossing accidents, so I guess I have a much more sensitive outlook. If you would do me a favor, the next time someone tells you about this kind of thing, please rememeber the GDC told you how serious this problem is and that it is absolutely no joking matter. If anyone thinks it's funny, just ask one of the officers.
Regards and have a safe day! gdc

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with you buddy about embracing the new tech. We stand to lose many jobs with the new RCOs. There are guys with 20 years of seniority sweatin'. From the sounds of it, you don't understand how the RCOs work and some of the rules that govern their use. Say the conductor gets off at the site where the pusher would be used, couples to the train, makes the required set and release. Now how are you going to beat the system that we allready use (helper link). The conductor some how has to run back down to the siding tie the engine down, and still has the distance between the end of the train and the bottom of the grade plus the length of the train to walk to get back on the engine and get under way again. In some places we use helper link and cut away on the fly when assistance is no longer needed. The helper crew then takes the helper consist back to the bottom of the hill and waits for the next train.....works pretty slick. Of all of the talk of where the RCOs are to be implemented, I have not heard of them being used in helper operations. I also would bet that there arent many of us rails that embrace this new tech. The company's safety records and the BLE's safety records of RCO use don't jive. If your job was at stake because of new tech. you tune may be a little different too. The kicker is that the RCO units are not as productive as having an engineer in the loco. Period. Best that I've heard is around 60% of that of a full crew. I find myself getting frusterated with guys that don't speak from experience!
Ken

[Anonymous]

I wouldn't be too rough on Tim. He is just new. I can sure say that he doesn't come across like some of these non rail know it alls that post here (not all are bad, some just annoy me). GDC, I do have to agree with you, though. It sure is nice to know that we have Bulls. Gets kinda spooky down in the yards walking along in the middle of the night and its nice to know that the Bulls are only a call away. I personally don't care if they train alligators and use them in the yards. As long as they keep the riff raff away from me so as I can do my work safely. Railyards are dangerouse enough without the scumballs wandering around.
Ken

[Anonymous]

The comment was not to be hard on Tim, I've already answered many of his questions. However, if some trucker who consistantly uses that facility thinks any of it is funny, maybe that person could point out the humor to the officers. I'm sure they'd appreciate it. I wonder how they would like it if the officers were not there. I assume Tim wants to learn about the railroad... that's part of it.
Regards, have a safe day. gdc