Dispatching?

[Anonymous]

Can some of the tallent out there explain the basic's of dispatching to a non-railroader? From the input of this Forum and article's I have read. In order to have a safe and smooth running railroad you need to have a safe and smooth running dispatch.
1.How many dispatcher's do railroads have and were are they located? Do they locate them on busy sections of track?
2.How do dispatcher's know when to put a train into a siding? Do they have a math formula that they use as to were two trains will meet? (Remember the classic Algebra question "If one train leaves New York at 40 MPH and another leaves Chicago at 30 MPH were will they meet.")
3.How do they know which train is more important? Do the marketing peaple tell them which train gets the go signal?
4.If a train is built at a small switching town of "Miles of Nowhere", Texas how do the dispatchers know its ready to leave And what it's destination is? How do they know what track to route it on?
I have more questions but do not want to overload the system. If it would be easier to answer them one at a time please do so.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

OK Tim...Here we go:
On NS, dispatching centers are located in Division headquarters cities. Two divisions were just recently combined, so there may be two for that division. One was pretty antiquated. Dispatchers divide the division into districts approximately 100+ miles or so. This may also vary, but that is the general rule. Each district is identified by name, i.e. Blue Ridge District, Virginia Division, Shenandoah District, etc. Most of the dispatch centers are computer aided so that trains appear on a map located on a big board as lights that progress with them movement. Individual signals and their aspects, including those govering turnouts. At the more modern centers, this a big semi-circular, darkened room with 5, 6, 7 or so dispatchers. They are in touch with each train on their district.
Dispatchers plan their meets based on siding length, crossover intervals, train length and other traffic. The computer aided dispatching system has the capacity to help plan meets, if possible to be non-stop. That's the optimum.
Train priority is determined by it's symbol. In other words, an Amtrak train would have priority over a through freight which would have priority over a local. Depending on the type of train, some symbols have prority over others. Roadrailers will be given rights over other trains. Again, none of this set in concrete. Conditions may be present that dictate a deviation.
If a train is scheduled to go from Miles From Nowhere, Texas to Sludge Pump, Oklahoma, the symbol will tell the dispatcher just that. Then he and the computer and eveything else plan the moves. It really works and I have nothing but good things to say about the dispatchers in today's centers. These folks are highly trained (no pun intended)and are required to be qualified on their district. They are required to take a rules test every year.
The jobs are high stress and it takes a special level of dedication to do them correctly. There's a whole lot of similarity between them and air traffic controllers so far as stress is concerned.
These are short answers to your questions. When you have more, fire when ready! gdc

[Anonymous]

What if one dispatcher has all his sidings occupied and 10 trains on the way to his division (Blue Ridge). Another division (Virgina) is sitting empty but, one of his tracks goes to the city that 5 of those incoming trains are bound for. Can Blue Ridge dispatch tell Virgina dispatch he needs to take those trains and if the route is longer will they charge the customers for the addintional miles?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

If your scenario is between divisions, probably not because of crew qualifications and collective bargaining jurisdictions. Sometimes you can, if there is an ID (Interdivisional crew) If it's between districts on the same division, probably so. Crews can operate on different districts on the same division. I'm speaking from NS point of view. May be different on other roads. Sometimes, in trackage rights joint facilities, crews from other railroads can operate on NS. They are required to pass the same rules examinations as NS crews. Likewise if NS crews operate on another road. Is that what you mean? gdc

[Anonymous]

Yes, you have hit the nail right on the head! (Have you ever thought about becoming a teacher?) You mentioned that they can track the progress of a train on a map. What feeds them that info? Are there radio transmitters on the trains that feeds GPS info to the dispatch centers? Are there sencors on the tracks that flag the dispatch on the speed and condition of a train?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Tim, I would like to give this one a shot with my limited knowledge. I know that some of the BNSF units have GPS (was told this by a RFE), but I don't think that this used by the DSs yet. I was taught that the DS can't see exactly where you are if you are between control points. That means if you are knocking down intermediate signals, they can't see that you just knocked down the intermediate at MP 120.5. They can see when you knock down an absolute though. The absolute signals are controlled by an operator and the intermediates are controlled by track conditions (train fouling that block, weed weasels shunting the track). Intermediates have number plates on their masts and or grade markers). As far as speed sensors, all that I know of are Trackside warning detectors. Some will give speed along with a defect message, and temperature (for temp.related speed restrictions) along with milepost number. Not all are alike though. To my knowledge these detectors do not flag the DS as to speed etc. They do however transmit over the radio their message. I'm not sure if the DS can hear these transmissions. They are rather weak. Sometimes you can barely pick up the message from a train that is several detectors ahead or behind. Like I say, that is what I was taught on my road. Hope that I didn't mislead you.......

[edblysard]

Hi Tim, gdc gave you a really good answer. Iam going to give you a example, to put it in perspective, I hope. Each train has it own symbol, say the Memphis to the Port Terminal daily train, its symbol is M2PT, (from Memphis, train #2 to Port Terminal). Its a mixed freight. Rails are used to carry a electirc current from signal to signal and to the dispatchers "Big board" often nothing more than a CRT monitor, it has a track schematic on it, showing control points, or absolute signals. These have a track cricuit of their own, which will change an indicater lamp or cursor on the dispatcher board when activated, so he/she knows when a train has entered, or passed the signal. Running through one of these displaying a absolute stop indication is a firing offense, automatic. You cant hide having done so, the dispatcher will see it and know. All that said, lets say the M2PT is heading into houston, but right on his heels, say three blocks back is the QVBT, a hot intermodel for barbors cut terminal. The dispatcher know the M2PT is going to the PTRA north yard, and because he has worked that dispatching jobs for years, he can look at his board, see that the M2PT is a block away from a siding that will hold his train easily. He also knows, from his beginning shift breifing that the QVBT is a higher priority train, it should be expidited if at all possible. So he hits a few keys, and the signal ahead of M2PT changes its indication and aspect to diverging route, and the switch to the siding lines towards the siding. The engineer on M2PT will see the signal, know that he is being lined into a siding, and slow to turnout speed before entering the siding. When M2PT's last car clears the control circut at the north end of the siding, the dispatcher can see that on his board, knows that M2PT is in the clear in the siding, and type a new command into the system, which will line the switch back for the main, and give the QVBT a green signal at the siding. When QVBTS last car clears the circut at the south end of the siding, or the next absolute signal, (control point) past the south end of the siding, it will show up on the board, and the dispatcher will then line M2PT back out onto the main, for the last few miles into the PTRA north yard. Now this may seem complicated, but keep in mind all the signals are interlocked with each other so the dispatcher can not inadverntly run two trains into each other. And this is a simplfied version of what happens, but it gives you a idea . Now imagine having to keep track of ten, fifteen or twenty trains an hour, over 100 to 200 miles of main line and sidings, and you can see why gdc compaired it to air traffic control. But at least the planes can steer around each other. So it takes a certain breed of cat to handle this job. Here in Houston, due in part because of the large number of yards, and the volume of trains, UP and BNSF have a joint ctc dispatching center in Spring, a small town just north of Houston. CTC stands for centralized traffic control. Its staffed by both UP and BNSF dispatchers, using computers, and dispatches an area from Galveston, 90 miles west of houston, to I belive Weimer, about 60 miles west, and about the same north and south. A lot of track and a lot of yards. The UP and BNSF dispatchers do not give their respective trains priority, their jobs are to keep everyones trains, no matter whos, on time. And I must say, after the meltdown form the UP/SP merger, which is why this center was created in the first place, they have done a great job. As to small switching towns, (hey, we reasemble that remark) when we have a train put together, we either notify the carrier via fax, phone or computer. And of course, because they run the same trains every day, we have their outbounds ready by the same time each day, and expect their inbounds to arrive, barring delays at or near the same time every day. By the way, M2PT is a real train symbol, and it gets here a 5:00/5:45 pm every day, I switch it tuesday through sunday before lunch. M1PT gets here at 7:00am.
Stay frosty,
Ed

[Anonymous]

That sir was a very good explaination, and yes you have cleared up a lot of questions. Thank you for the help.
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Was listening to the radio heard a conversation between CN road foremen and a train. They had a boxcar with a small air leak, the road foremen told them to nurse it back to it's home rails. Just then the CN dispatcher got on the radio and told the train crew to park that boxcar in the nearest siding. Do the dispatchers out rank everyone on the railroad?
TIM A

[edblysard]

In pratice, yes, sorta of. If the train crew was told by their trainmaster, or boss to nurse the car home, then that means the train will have to move slow, in case the leaks gets big enought to set the brakes in emergency. To prevent a traffic jam on his part of the road, the dispatcher had the crew set it out, and get back on the road to keep every train behind them from losing time. In essence, the dispatcher owns their section of the road, and has a duty to keep traffic flowing. He/she can overide just about anyone on just about anything except a safety issue, they cant order you to break a rule, but they sure can order you into a siding, and keep you there while they run a lot of trains past you. POing a dispatcher is not a good thing to do. If the dispatcher had a hot train behind the leaker, imagine him trying to explain to the division superentindent why that intermodel stacker missed the boat because of a leaking air hose on a general frieght? If there had been no trians behind that one, or no trains scheduled to meet the leaker somewhere, then he would most likley not bothered, but meets and passings are timed affairs, and when you dont get to where your suppost to be, when your suppost to, then it can snowball all the way across a division really quickly, and create quite a mess.
In essence, its their railroad, you do what they tell you to.
Ed

[wabash1]

tim to maybe simplify things alittle more ill start witht he last thing first. When will the dispatcher know its ready to leave the yard master will order the train. when the crew is called a copy of the crew call sheet is sent by printer to the originating office to the next crew change point and to the dispatcher. dispatcher on our part of the road will order crews when the trains get to certain area and depending on meets and possible work to be done. in abs where we run dispatcher only has a idea where you are by listening to the signals we call or the detectors that are going off. other wise they do what is called "os" in short asking where we are.

as far as are train going onto another division the 2 dispatcher will talk about when we will meeet and where. As far as going onto another railroad all we need to do is contact that road disp by radio and if he can he will run us. we dont need anything special like taking test to run on the other roads. on my lic it says all roads i am lic to run on.

Now the tricky one who goes first and where will we meet. what gdc says is true to a point on my road, it may not be totally the train as much as who is on it. if the crew has a reputation of running the wheels off it they will move maybe a little further and maybe only hold up a train with more priority very little. the amount of time a crew has left to work will mean weather a hot itermodal train with 9 hrs sets while a opposing train with 2hrs left to work and is 1 hrs from home goes on in.

and on are railroad its contractual that they will not run a train around another train. in other words i might be on a over tonage under powered mixed freight and have a short stack train behind me and that is where he will stay. couse its first in first out. if you get run around that cost me money.

[Anonymous]

Why would dispatch switch a crew from one train to another? Is that legal? Both crews were sitting in a siding at different locations why would dispatch call a cab and switch crews? I thought once you were assigned a train you stayed with it?
TIM A
Sorry about the late responce, was away on bussiness.

[Anonymous]

Tim, crews can be switched from one train to another, but they would get another day's pay for whatever service they were changed to. As an example, a work train is sitting in a siding and is not expected to move because of maintenance of way delay such as a critical track machine broken down. The work train crew has been on duty four hours. Now consider a through freight is approaching with only one hour left before the hours of service catches them and they are about two hours from their terminal. It is permissable to stop that train and restart the work train crew in order to relieve the through train crew. It was always my experience that this was not something of which to make a habit. The work train would have to stay put until another crew could be found for it. If the work train crew had not been there, the through freight would have to stop at the end of 12 hours on duty to be relieved. This would have meant transporting a new crew to that location, usually by contract taxi. I think we've been this route before. On NS, there is a localized paycode that allows a crew that is relieved on the line of road because of the hours of service to remain at an overtime rate until the relieving crew reaches the yard limits of the terminal. Not a bad deal! They could be home sleeping, watching tv or whatever at OT rates. Fortunatley this paycode only applies to one district and only to a few employees. Ahhhh, T&E payroll, now there's a system to test your sanity! Regards and have a safe day, gdc

[Anonymous]

Does dispatch keep track of the train crews hours for pay purpose's? Do dispatchers fill out the crews time cards? Is there a display on the dispatchers panel that lets them know when a crew would be at there limit? Do dispatchers keep a log of all the trains that they move through there area? Is the dispatch responcible for calling out crews and providing them transportation? Who is more powerful, dispatch or Maintance of Way peaple?
TIM A

[wabash1]

there will be others that will disagree but maintance of way has more power. reason if they cant get time to go inspect track they will shut the line down. they will call the cheif and tell them the main is out of service. it dont take long for them to get their track time.

crews do their own time cards as it is the law. the dispatcher makes reports and keeps track of the trains he delays. so he can cover his own self.

[Anonymous]

Tim,
With all due respect, I really need to be a little guarded here. Payroll data is a personal issue and to reveal too much about it's workings would approach my ethical boundaries. I don't think I'd want may salary to be dissected in a public forum. Also, it is a matter of contract provision between the crafts and management. In the limited information previously listed, the effort was to emphasize the complexity of all payroll systems.
Now, all that said, let me try to answer some of your questions. Crew calling and transport is a function of a separate department called, believe it or not, Crew Call. This is a centralized office facility that keeps up with crews system wide. Generally, they arrange for crew taxis, deadhead trips, etc. and provide information for taxi invoice verification. Using a number code, each trip is recorded and that code must show correctly on the taxi invoice before it is approved for payment.
Who has track time is not a matter of a power struggle. Maintenance of Way and Transportation each have a job to do and it's the dispatchers who coordinate this sharing. If the division engineer needs track time to replace crossties, he will get it as much as the schedule can accomodate. In high traffic areas, track time may be very limited, in which case, schedules can be rearranged or the job will take much longer than if he had no traffic with which to contend. I'm recalling one location where we were replacing a drawbridge amid a long trestle. The draw was to be completely replaced. The span was constructed in Japan, shipped to the U.S., assembled at a location about a mile from the bridge. The site was prepared and the new span floated in. The old span was removed and the new one installed and open within 12 hours, all in daylight hours. As there was no detour route available, trains were scheduled around construction and given the opposite 12-hour window for that day. This is an example of how the division engineer, the Mechanical Department and the Transportation Department of a division work together.
Finally, yes, dispatchers are aware of on-duty time.
I hope this answers some of your questions. Regards and have a safe day. gdc

[Anonymous]

Hi group My name is Rodney i work for the BNSF as a conductor on some of my trips I have had on the road there were some dispatchers learning the route even some of the older dispatchers ride the routes as they which are in Fort Worth and Kansas City do not realy know the layout of the route the older dispatchers told us the crew that dispatching is more art than science being they are talking with the terminal some of them keep the train crew in the dark not letting them know if they are going to get held until the last moment while others tell us so we have a head up as to what is going on we have some dispatchers that realy get unwound when AMTRAK is in the mix and the track is single track CTC them they come on and say everyone in the siding and we most often set for 2 or more hours as for the math question throw it out they do not concern themselves with that it all revolves around the priority of the train. Rodney

[Anonymous]

What if tracks owned by two different railroads cross each other. One track is dispatched by NS and the other dispatched by CSX. Which dispatcher has the right of way when two trains meet at the same time? Who controls the signals at the crossing do both dispatchers have control?

[Anonymous]

That is defined by an agreement between the two roads. It is usually based on which railroad was there first, i.e. the road at that location first controls the crossing. Since most railroad were built many years ago the establishment of who controls an interlocker can go back decades. As for day to day operation, train classes tend to dictate right-of-way to the controlling road. In other words, if the controlling road were NS and an Amtrak train approached on CSXT, the Amtrak train would have priority over any NS train of lesser class. When two trains of the same class approach, it's up to the dispatcher to make the best move depending on conditions.
Regards, and have a safe day. gdc

[Anonymous]

At a great many such crossings at grade, the junior railroad must pay for the maintenance of an "Automatic Interlocker". The senior road then maintains it. Commonly, neither dispatcher has any control as the automatic interlocker grants the route to the first train to activate an approach track circuit - sort of first come fisrt serve. Sometimes electric controls are arranged so that a dispatcher on the senior road can override this - but usually not.

At such crossings where the dispatcher is not in control, there is usually an override mechanism of some sort available to the train crews just in case an approach gets stuck or a train is switching on the approach but not intending to cross. When activated the original route is cancelled, and after a several minute safety time out - a new route is automatically set up for the other railroad. hope that helps

RmC

[cabforward]

if i read your letter aloud, i would pass out.. there is only 1 period in your comments, at the end.. next time, could you toss in some periods, commas, maybe an ellipsis (...), so i can tell where one thought ends and another begins? not seeing any place to stop, it reads like a runaway..

[Anonymous]

Thank you Gentlemen, you all have been most helpful! My next question to you guy's is TIME! What does track and time mean? Is there a master clock at dispatch that everyone goes by? Are engineers and conductors still required to have a calibrated time piece with them? Is there such a thing as railroad time? What happens when your dispatch is in Florida and your train is in Chicago, is there not a hour different's?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

Tim,
#1. I assume you mean track time. Track time is really a self explanatory term. It means the time you as a train, mofw gang, hi-rail or whatever has on a stretch of track. Is that what you mean?
#2. By a master clock, there is a clock for each time zone governed by that dispatch center and dispatchers go by local time. Sometimes, in areas near time zone changes, one area may be in the dispatch time zone and the community in another. This is covered by timetable rule.
#3. Train crew still must have a watch calibrated to the local time. The rules have changed over the years from "railroad approved" to "reliable" watches. When I first started, we were required to have a pocket watch that was not stem set. Usually these were Hamilton or Waltham and they said "railroad approved". They had white faces with black numbers with not only the five-minute numerals, but also minute listed. They were in white or yellow gold cases. Today, a genuine railroad Hamilton in good condition will sell in excess of $600. I have my grandfather's Hamilton. There was even a railroad jeweler whose job it was to maintain the watches in good working order. If I remember correctly, there was an allowable variance of less than a minute, but I don't remember the time period. From there we went to wrist watches, the battery powered with only a few makers of "railroad approved". From there, more watch makers joined the market. My current watch a battery Seiko showing as "railroad approved". Incidently, myh grandfather's Hamilton runs as well as the Seiko. We were all required to purchase and maintain our own watches at the railroad jeweler.
#4. What you know now as Easter, Central, Mountain and Pacific time zones were created by the railroads as a standard for calculating train meets and scheduling. Before that was established, time was a hodge-podge of different times, sometimes earlier, sometimes later than the neighboring community. This was tremendously confusing and led to calamities.
I think all you questions are covered. Let's see what the others say.
Regards and have a safe day. gdc

[edblysard]

Tim, to add to gdc post about time, currently on the port, our watch is allowed a 30 second variance, we have a function in our computer data base that is supposed to be tied into the national observatory's atomic clock. Our watches have to have arabic numerals, with military time on an inner or outer rim of the face. We dont have the old watch cards, and we are allowed to carry pocket watches, as long as they meet the above requirements, and we are tested about once a month. Any officer here can request to see your watch, and if it isnt correct, you are subject to be removed from service. I wear a Sharp Quartz with military time in red numbers inside the arabic number ring. I also carry a old Ingersol "Yankee" pocket watch my dad got from his dad when gramps immigrated to the US. He bought it for a $1.50 in 1915. Its back pops off, and inside the label states to send it to ingerson and son, NY.NY along with a dime for adjustment. It states it is rr approved. It was appraised for $499.00 at a collectors shop a year ago. Have yet to get a good answer why a rr that works under rtc, with a top speed limit of 20mph, restricted speed, needs watches that accurate, but I just work here...I dont know if class 1s still schedule meets by time. But still, having a good timepiece helps.
Stay Frosty.
Ed

[tnagle192034]

Hi! I had a few questions about what exactly the dispatchers do. So do the trains have to send them information about what is in the train, what company, and stuff? if so would it be a difficult task to add things to this checklist for them to see before they allow a train to depart? such as what is the length of the train. I was wondering just how much they know about the trains. do they know much more than the company and train ID? 

 

any answers would be helpful thank you!!

[tree68]

Information on consists is pretty much all automated now.  The dispatcher will need to know about any special handling (ie, high/wide, possibly hazmat) but beyond that, he/she doesn't care.

What the dispatcher does need to know is the length of the train and whether it can make it over the road.  The power desk will presumably assign enough power to accomplish that.

One could think of the dispatcher's duties as a sort of game - arranging the traffic so it moves in the most efficient manner possible.  The variables are many.  Events can lead to congestion, which ties up a lot.  Some trains have priority over others (contracts, etc) so will get priority handling, while others languish in sidings or never leave a terminal.

The dispatcher's computer aided dispatch system (CAD) helps by double checking for conflicting movements and the like.  

There's much more to it, but there's a start.

[BaltACD]

tnagle192034

Hi! I had a few questions about what exactly the dispatchers do. So do the trains have to send them information about what is in the train, what company, and stuff? if so would it be a difficult task to add things to this checklist for them to see before they allow a train to depart? such as what is the length of the train. I was wondering just how much they know about the trains. do they know much more than the company and train ID?  

any answers would be helpful thank you!!

Railroads have multiple interlocking data systems to facilitate their operation as a transportation company that move customers freight from origin plant to destination plant.  Every car has its own identity - Car Initial and Car Number.  Car Initials that end in X are private (non-railroad) owned cars.  Data systems keep track of the thousands of cars that a carrier has on its line at any time.  Yard personnel get 'work orders' for the actions crews need to take placing, pulling and/or respotting cars within each industry.  Yard crews may service one or more customers and bring the results of their work back into the 'serving yard'.  At the serving yard, personnel will then have other yard crews organize the results of the 'Industry' crews and form trains/blocks of cars based upon the destination/consignee of the cars.  When track(s) of car(s) have been assembled for movement they are 'booked' into the carriers 'Car & Train Computer System'.  Yard Supervision communicates with Division Supervision that they have a train to run for a specific scheduled train, extra section of a scheduled train or a extra train.  The computer, when queried, will then provide all the necessary information about the train - Loads, Empties, Tonnage, Length, Clearance Restrictions, HAZMAT.  Supervision will then apply locomotives to the train, normally with sufficient hauling capacity to move the train to its final desination over all the grades between Origin and Destination.

Once the train has been built, schedule assigned, power applied it will be 'consisted' into the computer system and all appropriate information will be sent from the 'Car & Train' computer system to the 'Computer Aided Dispatching System' (CADS).  The Train Dispatcher manipulates CADS for all the trains operating over his territory - be that signaled or dark territory.  CADS (at least CSX CADS) communicate a number of things with just how the Train ID gets displayed on the Dispatcher's model board computer screen. The lead alphabetic letter Identifier; P=passenger, M=merchandise, C=coal, G=grain, L=local and a number of other designators.  The next three digits are the schedule number, the following two digits are the day date from origin.  In the CSX CADS the date digits can be displayed in an array of different colors to signify different conditions - Clearance, HAZMAT and others.

Every train operating on a CADS territory has its own 'Train Sheet' a computer data packet that has Train ID, Crew Names, Engines by number, Loads, Empties, Tonnage, Length, Clearance details, HAZMAT details.  Train sheet data is available to the Train Dispatcher with a mouse click any time he may want information about any individual train.

With scheduled movement between carriers they exchange data between each other on a train by train basis in both directions - both passenger and freight.

[rdamon]

Wow ..  20 Year thread resurection

I miss Ed around here.

[tnagle192034]

Thank you so much for all of that information it will be very helpful! I was wondering one thing. what format is the length in? feet? amount of cars? 

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

I'm not sure of the current practice but I have some older ETT's that list siding length by number of 40-foot cars.