Train Horns Part 2.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626

I sure don't want trains to turn into rolling carillons.

Smalling, I gotta admit, when I first read the above in your post,..I agreed with you 100%.

Don't ask me why, but your comment of "rolling carillons" just stuck with me, the way some things just will...and the thought just kept coming back to me time and again...Out doing yard work , in the shower, waiting on my meal in a restaurant, etc...the idea just kept haunting me.

And yanno what? I've swooped 180 degrees.

with the way that music soothes the savage beast, I think it would be a very positive reflection on the character of our society, if we had musical trains out roaming the continent, brightening peoples days...

That way all these current complainers would be recruited into supporters, and who knows? Maybe thay would even end up running down to the tracks to listen, just in hopes that the latest edition of American Idol was playing that evening...

And, look at the entirely new channel of revenue that would open for the railroads?

Just think, during election year all the money the railroads could charge, for running subliminal suggestions telling people who they should be voting for.

I smell a goldmine [}:)]

[traintownofcowee]

I agree extremely! If they complain about the railroads than they should move as far away from railroads as possible.

The world is filled with to many idiots!

C U All L8TER!!!
[8D][:)][:D][:P][{(-_-)}][(-D][swg][8D]

[Murphy Siding]

We stayed one night in Hinkley, Minnesota which has a very busy BNSF line through town. The coal trains fly through town so fast,that to do the multiple whistle at each street crossing made it sound like one gigantic scream. I was wishing they could figure out how to tune those things a little differently, because I like the sound of train horns.

[Anonymous]

I'm all for going back to the old single-note "honkers"....their low soothing tone was loud enough to be heard, but not as annoying as that high-pitched crap out there today.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

(A) people like you make me very pisto. (B) Your duelling banjos comment is stupid...(C) leave the pretty pictures to you foamer. Your post was militant against us, so right back at you.

A. That's "pesto"! [:D]

B. Wow! that was you at MP 148 Sunday morning, wasn't it?

C. Why would a "foamer" be militant against railroaders? Doesn't make any sense, does it? Aren't foamers usually so ga-ga about anything railroad that they see railroaders as "can do no wrong" idols?

Why would I be different?

What actually has been my ambition in this thread has been to try and illustrate for some of the more obvious foamers who were so anxious to jump on and condemn their idols detractors, that there are likely situational factors involved that make the full story somewhat more complex than simply "if you don't like the noise why did you move next to the tracks?" as some were trying to make it seem.

Things are seldom as simple as people make them seem

[Anonymous]

I didn't say 20 secs continuosly. Don't feel sorry for my ears.....Most of our units are comfort cabs. What's this drool about me making you so alfredo. That's O.K. people like you make me very pisto. Your duelling banjos comment is stupid. Have a quiet zone implemented in your area. But, we still have discretion on using the whistle.....oooops. Leave the RRing to us and we'll leave the pretty pictures to you foamer. Your post was militant against us, so right back at you.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ironken

Antigates your earlier post was accepted as opinion until you asked the question "what kind of kids are the rrs hiring today?" I whistle a special whistle as I pass my wife's place of work, and I always whistle at foamers like yourself. I will show you what kind of kids work for the RRs now pal. This kid will start whistling as per GCOR 5.8.2 and by our current briefing regarding train whistles (protect crossing for at least 20 seconds if less than 45 mph and if over 45 mph begin sounding whistle at the whistle board) as well I will further adhere to the rules by reporting any and all tresspassers. Hope to see you on RR property soon there buddy.

Heh heh,

As chef Paul Prudhomme said to Wolfgang Puck: "you make me so alfredo"...[:D]

20 seconds? continuously? Man, I'd feel sorry for your ears having to endure that.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

Antigates,
. As mentioned, cars these days are much more soundproof. And I think people are much more distracted these days. With so many people blasting there stereos and even more people yapping about nothing on there cell phones, they bring it on themselves.

If not for the innocent victims ....--<snip>--

I can fully appreciate all of those dilemmas,..but NONE of those are the fault of the people who've lived by the crossing s for decades.. are they? The world could do well with fewer people who drive with a cell phone glued to one side of their faces (imo) and if a few thousand of those guys who have bass blaster woofer setups in their trunk got press fit into the ballast near their local crossing, I'm not gonna cry too much....that's for sure.

as far as right vs wrong goes, well what amazes me is, so many passings are reasonably short horn usages, maybe a few short toots accompanied by a long..that it's no big deal.

Then you get these times where the engineer just lays and lays on the horn, which os often explained away here suggesting that some moron was probably trying to beat the train, or the engineer was hoping that by blasting the mans eardrums out he could persuade a suicidal maniac to rethink his plan and get off the tracks,..as if it ALL was about safety...then I see something like I saw sunday morning with two passing trains play dueling banjo's...with not a spare soul around that could be deemed a hazard...forces you to think.

Maybe the answer is to take the decision out of the engineers hand entirely, and automate the horn operation with a computer and localized proximity switches at the grade crossings? Thus avoiding the horseplay?

Oh, there would still be a manual activator for emergency situations, but with a tattletale logging device and the requirement that the engineer fill out a mountain of paperwork to document each incident meriting the exception?? That way when somone says "the engineer probably had no other choice" you could be reasonably sure they weren't just pulling yout leg. [;)]

[Anonymous]

Antigates your earlier post was accepted as opinion until you asked the question "what kind of kids are the rrs hiring today?" I whistle a special whistle as I pass my wife's place of work, and I always whistle at foamers like yourself. I will show you what kind of kids work for the RRs now pal. This kid will start whistling as per GCOR 5.8.2 and by our current briefing regarding train whistles (protect crossing for at least 20 seconds if less than 45 mph and if over 45 mph begin sounding whistle at the whistle board) as well I will further adhere to the rules by reporting any and all tresspassers. Hope to see you on RR property soon there buddy.

[chad thomas]

Antigates,
You do have a point. But is this really there fault. As mentioned, cars these days are much more soundproof. And I think people are much more distracted these days. With so many people blasting there stereos and even more people yapping about nothing on there cell phones, they bring it on themselves.

If not for the innocent victoms that would be affected, I would say go with the quiet zones and just have lights and gates (silence the bells too) and if some idiot wants to gamble with there life....well so be it. Eventually the average intelegence of the rest of society would start to go up.

Mabee it's time to bring back the cow catchers....or should I say car catchers. By doing that at least you could improve the chances that the train will stay on the tracks.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by smalling_60626

I sure don't want trains to turn into rolling carillons.

well, of course i was just teasing....BUT, think about the positive applications...

We could program the ringtones on the horns of the "shackle- boxcar" death trains with Chopins "Funeral (death) march"...how cool would that be? [:D]

The real point I was trying to make was that the railroads HAVE played some part in making the 'listening experiance' less pleasant over the years, as horns have become louder, and more penetrating.....meaning the argument of "why didn't they think about that when the were buying their house next to the tracks?",...is NOT a 100% valid argument.

Your suggestion regarding the GG1 horn is actually right up the avenue if the point I was hinting at.

no doubt the science behind locomotive horn making has devised a sound that is extra irritating, with the intent that the sound be more attention getting.. Perhaps they should now look for ways to make the horns carry less far?

because the line I was mentioning earlier, has 4 grade crossings in the vicinity..the closest being 1/2 mile away (crossing "A"), the next being about a quarter mile further (crossing "B"), the next being another quarter mile (crossing "C"), and the 4th being about 1/8th mile beyond that (crossing "D").

And, I can remember from my youth you could faintly hear B all the time, and only hear C when conditions were ideal.

Now, you can hear D faintly all the time, C is very noticeable, B even more so, and A is almost irritating even to this train fan during periods of high traffic.

the peculair thing about all that is, I am 40 years older now, and slightly hard of hearing....so i can only imagine how loud it must seem to a person with hearing as good as mine once was.....

Claiming the railroads are completely blameless is an erroneous assumption. They have a hand in this..

[Anonymous]

I sure don't want trains to turn into rolling carillons. There's enough noise pollution out there as it is!

Maybe it's time to tune horns with simplicity in mind. Imagine an air horn that mimics the old GG-1 "Moop Moop"! Sure would be novel in this age of four- or five-horn chords with dissonant overtone. The GG-1 type single note could be reinforced by using both forward- and backward facing trumpets. Digital imaging that would retard the second horn blast just a tiny bit after the first would give an echoic effect. Nothing out there like it these days, or at least in my experience. [;)]

[Anonymous]

Well, what have you got to say about 'horn play' between engineers?

Up until now, you 'pro horn' guys have been assuming the moral high ground, that the horns are only blown for safety, and that the trackside people who complain about excessive noise are only self centered jerks with no respect for safety.

Engineers are people too, what about when one of them becomes self centered and jerk like?

This morning I was out for a walk, and the local dual track crosses a grade crossing about a half mile from my house.

The dual track chokes down to a single about a half mile beyond the grade crossing, so often when there are "meets" the out bound train is held short, prior to the grade crossing, to keep the street open while they wait for the inbound train coming in on the single track (makes good sense)

HOWEVER during my little walk today, I noticed such a staged wait in progress, and realizing that an inbound must be enroute, decided to wait, and do a little train watching.

As the inbound arrived, there wasn't a single car in sight at the gate protected crossing, the only pedestrian even remotely near was me, standing 100' from the tracks on a parking lot, and still the inbound honked his horn as per a normal passing, kept honking the horn as the train passed through the crossing,...and was still producing intermittant blasts as the lead unit passed the staged unit in wait, standing motionless on the opposed track.

Not only that, but the train in wait was returning blasts, as if playing a 125 decible game of dueling banjos

Made me wonder what kinda kids the railroads are hiring these days.

I imagine it doesn't take too many incidents like that to get the trackside residents grumbling about a petition...

[gacuster]

A recent news story out of Ashwaubenon (suburb of Green Bay, WI) told how residents were tired of the train horns on the CN main line. Last year the village paid for crossing improvements (gates, flashing lights) but the horns were still blowing because the feds had to inspect the upgrades before they could stop. An inspector finally showed up and maybe next month permission to quit blowing will be given, over a year after all the work was done.

[DrummingTrainfan]

Or it could be at the idividual crossing (I think there are some regular horns like that) so the citizens that live around there can choose their song. Then everyone might be happy...that is when all the recounts and accusations of voter fraud are cleared[:D][:D][:D][:D][:D]

[railfan619]

That last one was really dam funny I think you may be right about that ring toned horns maybe the ticket but then people will start complaning about those because enginers will pick the most annoying songs for there horns but then again it might just shut all of those little whinners up [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

[DrummingTrainfan]

I could go with ringtoned-horns, but I think I'd rather hear a regular horn than heavy medal music. How about something like a drumset solo?

[railfan619]

I swear some stupid[soapbox][soapbox] people don't desevre to live around tracks because ever time a train blows their horn for a crossing. I am sure that people get on the phone and try to get some law passed to stop trains from blowing their horns. But unlike me every time I hear a train horn go off I know some thing great is still going on in this great country. But anyway train horns are cool and you are right and they have the same reasons that police cars fire trucks and ambulances have sirens and yes even AIR HORNS on them and yet there are still stupid [soapbox] people still try to out run them but anywho I think before anyone buys a house or gets there liscence they should have to look and see how far they are from. Train tracks and on the other hand when people take there drivers test the examiner should test them on when they hear sirens see what they should do if they don't know what to do they should fail instantly same thing when they try to beat a train to the crossing they should be. SHOT in the HEAD but then again that is my own opion and if anyone else feels this way go ahead and just let it all out like I just did and I feel much better now thanks for listening [:D][:D][:D]

[Anonymous]

Seems to me BNSF Railfan has talked himself into leading the opposition. After all, this is a matter of saving lives, not mere esthetics.

[chad thomas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by TheAntiGates

Maybe if they could 'program' the horns like they do cell phone ring tones? [8D]

SURE! that's it! They could program the horns to play locally popular tunes as they pass through, making everybody happy.

Lets see, that would leave heavy metal for the midwest, country for the deep south, salsa for the southern border states, Rap for the northeast, and show tunes for San Francisco and the northern border states.. EVERY BODY WINS NOW!! [:-,]

[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D] Too funny !!!!!! [(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]

[Anonymous]

Maybe if they could 'program' the horns like they do cell phone ring tones? [8D]

SURE! that's it! They could program the horns to play locally popular tunes as they pass through, making everybody happy.

Lets see, that would leave heavy metal for the midwest, country for the deep south, salsa for the southern border states, Rap for the northeast, and show tunes for San Francisco and the northern border states.. EVERY BODY WINS NOW!! [:-,]

[chad thomas]

Here is something I found that goes against the grain:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Train horns not a problem for Bakersfield residents

Residents across the country are in an uproar over a powerful noise breaking the calm of their neighborhoods.

But in Bakersfield, California, some say train horns create a calm atmosphere.

It’s a new federal rule that went into effect just over a month ago that forces trains to blow their horns at every city crossing.

But that same rule says cities can silence them.

“Local communities throughout the nation, many of which never had the authority before, can now start the process to silence the horns,” said Steven Klum from the Federal Railroad Administration.

But the catch is, local folks would have to pay for it.

“A rule gets made and the railroads say, ‘well you can opt out of the rule but your just going to have to pay, pay for the improvements,’ and we don't have the budget for it,” said Assistant City Manager Alan Christensen.

“When we first moved to the house down the street the trains were a big problem because we weren't used to it,” said resident Mike Fox.

Fox is one of many residents living next to the tracks who say they’re used to it.

“When I moved here it was a big problem, but now since time passed, I'm starting to get used to it,” said George Posadas.

Others even enjoy train horns.

“We love it, that's the reason why we live here, because we like to listen to the sounds of the train, especially at night,” said Deboraha Bauer. “It's very soothing and very relaxing.”

The city said if they don’t get complaints, it’s not a top priority to stop the horns.

There are only three cities in California that have applied for the quiet zones since the federal rule went into effect Jun24. - KGET-TV17, Bakersfield, CA, courtesy Larry W. Grant

[Anonymous]

Part of it is the auto makers building cars nearly soundproof now. I recently rode with a friend of mine in a brand new car, not sure the make and model but, we got stopped at a railroad crossing, and we were the first car in line. With the windows shut, and nothing on, radio, a/c, blowers, all were off, and the horn could barely be heard inside the car. I'm probably wrong on this, and mind you, my mind has been going to mu***he past few years, but I think I read somewhere that this was one of the reasons train horns are getting louder. I don't know, more than likely I'm completely wrong on this one.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

They were there first (99% of the time).....Can't move you say...Then pay for grade seperation....Oh...not worth the cost?........Then shut the [censored] up and deal with it....

Now THERE is a good idea!! I had never thought of...... Lets see,..my house was built in 1935, and if the railroads would go back to using the melodic steam whistles prevalent at that time, everybody wins...[;)]

[chad thomas]

It's a simple equasion to me...If you don't like hearing the horns then move away from the tracks...They were there first (99% of the time).....Can't move you say...Then pay for grade seperation....Oh...not worth the cost?........Then shut the [censored] up and deal with it....Yes they blow the horns for a reason.........YOUR SAFETY...Duh

[Anonymous]

Those old "bulldog" F units had a horn that was more of a hum, far less annoying than the shrill blaring units I hear these days.

Some of the contemporary horns don't sound so bad, while others really suck, sounding off key and non melodic.

Which makes me wonder.....with the multi chime horns popular today, I'm wondering if the ones that sound off key and annoying are just broken? You know, like when one of the 4 horns on a cadillac is broken, and the resulting sound reminds you of a cat wearing a pair of vice grips intimately?

Perhaps slack maintenance is the true cause of most of the complaints from track side dwellers?

Perhaps we should give each engineer a pitch pipe, and require him to test the horns prior to every departure? Giving him final say on whether such a consist is road worthy, or if it gets cut out for repairs?...[}:)]

[Anonymous]

I think we should be a tad more musical in the horns.

Someone on the forums had a sign that stated "Lights and Siren bother you? Wal, if we have to be up you have to be up too."

And for those who think I am being insensitive, I live within earshot of a dual track main that sees up to 10 trains/hour at times. I can pick out from memory almost who is driving what train at different times of the week.

I listen for the routine blows and all is well. When I hear the batch of shorts we have a problem.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by DrummingTrainfan

When will people learn that if you want your life you might have to give up a whole five seconds of quiet time.[sigh]

5 seconds 30-50 times per day, 365 days per year, comes to 25 hours per year.

now, suppose you have multiple crossings close by... what then? triple it?

I'm all for safety, but since the horns seem to be getting louder, and of a pitch that seems ever more annoying, it seems wrong to be totally insensitive to the plight of those who find it necessary to complain.

[Anonymous]

I think it would be great if they put big airhorns on passenger jetliners too. that way they could blow their horns as they fly over as well ...