Train Diamonds

[Anonymous]

When trains crossed over each other using the Diamonds, what line or who maintains the Diamonds? Is this a fair assumption that the railroads today that cross over each other are now building overpasses or bridges now?

Larry

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

At any crossing or interlocking, the junior road at the location (whoever got there last) is responsible for maintenance of the track and machinery.

[DPD1]

There's a lot less diamonds, but they are still out there. Each plant has a different agreement, so it's never the same. Back when they had a lot more towers, they would often times give the control of the tower to the lessor RR. I guess they figure that's more fair, because then the big road wouldn't dominate the plant and keep the little guy's trains waiting all the time.

Dave
-DPD Productions - Featuring the NEW TrainTenna LP Gain RR Scanner Antenna-
http://eje.railfan.net/dpdp/

[Anonymous]

Re: At any crossing or interlocking, the junior road is responsible for maintenance of the track and machinery.

Does that mean that the men I saw clearing shrubbery at the Rochelle Diamond a couple of weeks ago were probably BNSF employees?

[tree68]

Diamonds are a maintenance headache. That's why you see crews at Rochelle all the time. The wear on the actual crossings is brutal, so they are constantly adding material and grinding it to profile.

[Anonymous]

I do so agree. There are people fiddling with the pins at the Rochelle Diamond all the time.

I also get rather a cheap thrill by watching the TOFC's rock after pounding over the Diamond when traveling east on BNSF!

[railfan619]

Speaking of diamonds are there any in wisconsin I was wondering this because it might be a cool thing to go and watch the diffrent RR's run over the diamonds [:)][:)]

[waltersrails]

I know there is a few diamonds near where i live. There is csx that crosses up and ns crossing the up. there is rail traffic almost all the time. I wish in my town they would have left the csx track in because it had a diamond with NS.[:(] here at fairfield, il

[Anonymous]

I think the Diamonds at Effingham Illinois are maintained by CSX (former Conrail). Illinois Central (Now CN) was the first to put tracks through Effingham. Pennsylvania, I think, came through later on. So, I would have to agree with "CSSHEGEWISCH", I think the railroad that came through later is in charge of maintaining the diamonds. CSX has been working on their diamonds at Effingham and have posted Yellow Caution flags beside the CSX tracks.
Now, I'm not for sure who owns the diamonds at Princeton IN where CSX and NS cross. CSX has signals at the diamond for NS trains and NS has a CSXT CROSSING sign posted. The CSX is former C&EI tracks and NS is former Southern. I would guess maybe CSX. I need to do a little research on that.

[CSXrules4eva]

Some people in here might find this so sad but I'm going to say it anyway. I've never ever seen a dimond in my life. I live in the greater Philadelphia reagion and over here there aren't any dimonds, not any I know of anyway. I guess back in the day when PRR and Reading were at it's penical (spelling) there must of been more dimonds over here. Today there are more abandond lines over here than active ones. Tisk Tisk Tisk..............................

[Anonymous]

It is indeed a shame that so many lines have been abandoned, but you can take some comfort in the thought that instead of diamonds, you have wyes and other ways for the two lines to pass traffic back and forth. After all, consider that the "Con" in CONrail meant "Consolidated."

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSSHEGEWISCH

At any crossing or interlocking, the junior road at the location (whoever got there last) is responsible for maintenance of the track and machinery.

At Fremont,Neb. I would have to say it is the BNSF that has to do the work because the UPRR was there first. The one North of town,No brainer,BNSF. Because the CNW was their first. So that makes the BNSF to be the one to fix it. Correct?
Allan.

[Anonymous]

The man has a point. Instead of necessarily the RY that has less traffic, perhaps it is the railroad that got there last. Since many primary routes got built first, and they would tend to carry more freight than the (relative) Johnny-come-latelies, that would give the appearance that it is the junior line, traffic wise, that's responsible for upkeep. Train law being what it is, though, "pride of first place" makes a compelling determinant.

One test: which came first to Rochelle, IL: predecessor (even before the "Q") of BNSF; or CNW?

[Chris30]

I'm going to say that the C&I was the first in Rochelle. But I'm not 100% sure. I know that the Chicago & Galena Union (CNW/UP) first built their main line northwest from Turner Jct (West Chicago) towards Rockford. I also know that the original Burlington route went northeast from Aurora to Turner Jct and ended at that interchange before building their own Chicago line. I'm not sure when the C&I was built, but it would have to be before the late 1860's when the CNW built the Dixon Air Line to Clinton, IA.

CC

[Anonymous]

Saw my first active diamond this weekend, in fact. It's in Calera, Alabama, (north of Montgomery and south of Birmingham.) As near as I can tell, CSX owns the right of way. The north south line runs from Montgomery to Birmingham. I don't know where the east west line runs to, although the train museum curators nearby told me that part of it goes to a Vulcan plant nearby. The signals for the east west branch were about a tenth of a mile away from the diamond and set to red.

By the way, the local museum (the Heart of Dixie rail museum) has a nice excusion run... I got a cab ride in a 50 year old ex Army switcher!

Erik

[alstom]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

Some people in here might find this so sad but I'm going to say it anyway. I've never ever seen a dimond in my life.

That's not to bad. I didn't see one until I was 11, and i'm 13. They aren't to spectacular because when you are there, all you hear is:
b-boom, b-boom, b-boom, b-boom, b-boom, b-boom, b-boom
...it's almost irritating, but I still love em', anyways i'm getting [#offtopic]!!

The railroad company obviously maintains the diamonds. The city and state as well have some part. But if you mean a diamond that has like CSX and NS, that is complicated to explain.

The railroad owning the rail that is damaged is in charge of maintaining it. I guess that wasn't so hard. That's all I can think. I don't think the state or city comes out to fix it though-----lol!! But anyways, that's it for me, you got me here. But i'm assuming that my answer is correct.

Richard

[Anonymous]

I found out today that the Southern line (NS) came through after the Chicago & Eastern Illinois line was put in at Princeton IN. The C&EI line is now CSX. So according to what some other people have said, NS (Southern) being the second to arrive at Princeton should maintain and own the diamond, however, I found out that CSX is the owner of the diamond. So, this sort of changes the idea that the junior railroad takes care of and owns the diamonds. I heard this from a former Southern (Norfolk Southern) Conductor.

[dsbrightlines]

My question is: Railroad A builds a track through a region. Railroad B decides later that it needs to cross Railroad A in order to get where it needs to go. I understand that Railroad B is responsible for the costs of creating and maintaining the diamond. But who controls it, i.e. who builds and staffs the tower?

It seems to me that Railroad A has a vested interest in being responsible for deciding which Train gets to go through the diamond if there is a conflict. Suppose two trains arrive at the diamond more or less simultaneously. Which Train has priority? Going back to the "I was here first" issue, Railroad A would be fooli***o allow Railroad B to make the decisions about what Train has priority. Any of you history buffs out there have any idea how this was decided in the past?

[CShaveRR]

Railfan619, you should wander over to Duplainville. I've never been there, but that should be the nearest diamond interlocking to you.

For Dsbrightlines: First of all, welcome!

Second, you really don't have to go back very far for a very good example. Just go out to West Chicago, Illinois, where there is a manned tower at the crossing of the UP and EJ&E. The tower operator is constantly on the radio with the UP dispatcher, on the phone with the UP yard, lining up trains to cross over (or not) from one track to another, or go into the yard, or on or off the Belvidere Sub. He's often busy with the UP's Signal Department to deal with their switches within his plant. He would hear plenty if he were the cause of a delay to Metra's scoots there. But his paycheck comes from EJ&E.

I strongly suspect that if Great Big Railroad A had any thought that upstart Little Railroad B were going to use this crossing to disrupt Railroad A's operations, it would not have granted permission for the crossing in the first place. Yes, permission would have been required. At West Chicago, EJ&E has freights to run, too--I've sat and waited there myself. A good tower operator will minimize the delay for all parties--but I'll bet he's not allowed to tie up the diamonds near the Metra trains' times.

[mudchicken]

CShaveRR & Brightlines:

The new crossing scenario is playing out right now at the STB with UP trying to cross BNSF (Old BN/C&S) at Southern Junction/Pueblo, CO....

There is a second rhubarb involving Keokuk Junction RR and BNSF in Western Illinois.
(dispute over access to crossing vs. alternate access practicality, ironically the little guy is the source of the friction here with Pioneer RailCorp getting a little wierd)

The third issue is JoeKoh's favorite between Maumee & Ohio and CSX at Defiance, OH...(existing crossing removed)

In all three cases, STB is the final arbiter of who is responsible for what. And if all possible, nobody wants a crossing frog (diamond to the novice) at all due to the added risk and expense involved.The "who got there first" issue often oversimplifies the responsibilities and obligations involved. If Gabe was not so busy, the contract law issues involved would lead to hours of suggested reading.

[ahuffman]

One road doesn’t necessarily bear all the expenses. I’ve noted that PRR interlocking diagrams for points where two different railroads crossed typically had a chart setting out the division of expenses on a percentage basis. For example the interlocking at Leetonia, Ohio showed PRR 76.54% and Erie 23.46% for maintenance expenses and 83.4% vs. 16.6% for operating expenses on a diagram dated 1-1-57. It’s worth noting this junction was on the Pennsy mainline to Chicago while it was on the Erie’s Lisbon branch. The diagram also notes that the PRR operated and maintained the interlocking; that is, performed the actual work. I don’t know how the formulas for dividing expenses were arrived at.

[mikeyuhas]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CSXrules4eva

Some people in here might find this so sad but I'm going to say it anyway. I've never ever seen a dimond in my life. I live in the greater Philadelphia reagion and over here there aren't any dimonds, not any I know of anyway. I guess back in the day when PRR and Reading were at it's penical (spelling) there must of been more dimonds over here. Today there are more abandond lines over here than active ones. Tisk Tisk Tisk..............................

Oh Sarah!

There's a pretty unique crossing in Darby, just down the road from you. It's where CSX's Philadelphia Subdivision crosses SEPTA's Route 11 trolley line, at 6th & Main. If I recall correctly (I haven't lived in Delaware County for over 16 years), it's the only at-grade crossing of a mainline ralroad and an active trolley line in the United States. Put yourself on a Route 11 trolley and go for a ride!

[tree68]

Seems like I've read more than a few accounts of activities at towers where the different shifts were worked by employees of different railroads.

[fuzzybroken]

If I had more time (and presence of mind) I would tell the tale of the Midnight Crossing.

Anybody else up to it?

-Mark
www.fuzzyworld3.com

[Anonymous]

Oh, I'll bite. What is (was) the Midnight Crossing?
And would you rather start a separate thread for it?

Allen

[wccobb]

Rochelle, Ill.
Chicago & Galena Union RR built 68 miles, West Chicago to Dixon, Illnois, 1854 (C&NW Steam Power, by C. T. Knudsen)

The CB&Q's entry into Rochelle is a little less distinct. "Steam Locomotives of the Burlington Route", by Corbin & Kerka contains the following: "In the 1880's the growth of the Burlingtron was widespread over the Middle West. ... Among the roads acquired during this period were the Chicago & Iowa, 101 miles long and extending from Aurora west to Forreston and Rockford; ..." This seems to be reflected in the map given on page 17 which indicates that the rails were laid from Aurora to Mt. Morris and to Rockford during the 1870-1880 era. Further clarification will be appreciated.

Wanna look at diamonds? Joilet (Illinois) Union Depot where four tracks cross four tracks and is the end of the line for two METRA lines.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by fuzzybroken

If I had more time (and presence of mind) I would tell the tale of the Midnight Crossing.

Anybody else up to it?

-Mark
www.fuzzyworld3.com

I would like to hear the tale sometime.

[CShaveRR]

Not any more, Mr. Cobb...

Four tracks (BNSF/CN) cross only one track (Metra/CSXT) at Joliet these days.

[CSXrules4eva]

MIke: I guess I have to get out more because I had no clue out of all these years of being born and rased in Philly that there is a dimond on 6 and Main. Who would of thought that?/// I might have to cheak it out.

alstom: I've been here in Philly of 19 years now and I've been a railfan all my life and haven't see a dimond, your lucky your only 13 and have seen one. [8D]

[alstom]

QUOTE: your lucky your only 13 and have seen one.

Thanks for writing back. I have heard of this "Darby, Pennsylvania" though. At 'www.chessiesystem.com', you can see the model version of Darby.

Anyways, diamonds, now that i've been thinking, are maintained mostly probably by STB, ICC or AAR. The top three should I say "rulers" of the railroads? They are probably the ones always getting the calls if a crossroad or "diamond" is dangerous. The reason I think this is because over in Greenwich, Ohio a week ago, a CSX maintenance worker came out repair the CSX diamonds. On my scanner, I picked up the CSX maintenance worker saying that he received a call from the ICC to verify that he fixed the diamonds before he left. He had to replace a piece of track going bad, that got damaged after a 60 mph manifest hammered over it. The line was closed from 1:30 pm to 2:30 pm.

Richard