About the NS 611

[Anonymous]

Hi Everybody!

I'm an italian railfan. I've just watched a video about the Norfolk and Southern 611 entitled "Birmingham Memories".
The narrating voice said NS ceased all the steam programs in 1994 and put the 611 back in a museum.

Is it still true? If so, I'm sorry.

I thought Italian Railways were the less "steam-sensible" railways in the world but...

Thank you for your answers.

Davide

[Anonymous]

Hello Davide
Yes, (It's Norfolk and Western, not NS or Norfolk and Southern)is retired and in the Virginia Museum of Transportation in Roanoke, Virginia, USA. Costs for maintenance and repairs compared with the number of people riding were overwhelming, so the program was discontinued. The engine belongs to the museum, so it is there under shelter.
gdc

[Modelcar]

....And what a loss to us out here in railroad land. 611 visited here in Muncie, In. quite a few times and allowed me to get some outstanding photos of it as well as to be right up to it to really look it over. Such a nice piece of machinery from the steam era...and I believe one of the last series to be constructed...Wasn't it built around 1950, I think it said on the builders plate. I am greatful for the opportunity it gave us here as it would come to Muncie with it's load of passengers and spend quite a few hours allowing a complete inspection of all the train. We were privileged here in Muncie to see many of the engines that serverd the steam movement as it was happening. But if it can't be out running, I'm pleased to know it is under shelter and preserved for others to see.

QM

[Anonymous]

FYI 611 In-service date: Monday, May 29, 1950

[Anonymous]

Thank you gdc for your answer.

There is something I don't understand. It seemed to me the last 611's specials were quite crowded.
If I remember well the 611 pulled about 20 passenger coaches. That's a lot of seats, likely occupied by someone.

Over here in Italy the situation is pretty different. Our National railway company owns and runs its (few, but greowing) fleet of steamers even if they are used just a few times a year (usually no more than 10 special trains a year).
Furthermore there are also private clubs who own locos. They provide a perfect maintenance just with thier own money without asking anything (excepted for the tickets to ride on their specials). It's just a matter of passion.

Hi

Davide

[Modelcar]

To Davide:

You are correct with the size of the Steam Specials...When they came into Muncie they were pulling about 20 cars and it seemed like all of them were well occupied. I seem to remember the number of passengers at around 600. That would bring in a lot of revenue.

QM

[Anonymous]

I am sorry, and happy, to say I rode on the last run. I am sorry because it was the last run, but I am happy because I got ot ride the train. I also have a photograph of me standing on the running board on the fireman's side at the front of the locomotive. Oh the meories...
Iain

[Anonymous]

From my understanding, and I may be wrong. Most steam excursion's stopped not for declining attendance but for insurance rates doubling or tripiling in some case's. Is this true?
TIM A

[Anonymous]

The steam excursions stopped on NS for a number of reasons. First and foremost was the cost. Even if they were full, covering cover trip costs was a matter of luck. Railroad employees working the excursions were on the payroll and some were fulltime with the program. Then there was the toll on supervisory personnel. Those were loooooong days and in most case, nights. Then there were the maintenance issues. The year following the discontinuance, 611 was due for a reflueing. Most of the parts had to be specially made so you're looking at $750,000 plus just for that.
Many of the trips were not sold out and ridership was declining. (Where have we experienced that before?) Changing of the guard also brought a different emphasis on public relations.
NS sponsored excursions were self insured so premiums were not a real issue, however the liability was always there and increasing. Even so, the decision to discontinue the program was diffucult. gdc

[Anonymous]

Davide,
I thought some more about my response to you earlier this evening and the posts from others. Liability was an issue to the sponsors. If the excursion was sponsored by a group, such as a chapter of the NRHS, they were required to purchase a set amount of liability coverage in addition to the rent of the train. Profit or loss of the trip was then based on ticket sales and the responsibility of the sponsor. Increasing premiums did bring more pressure to bear on these groups, and that had to be reflected in ticket sales and concessions. The popularity of the trips was fading though.
As I remember, stopping it was an emotional issue, pros and cons on both sides. But in the final analysis, support eroded beyond tolerance. I can find nothing useful in another post mortem on the steam program...just digging up bones. It's gone and it was time for it to go. For the years it existed, the people of NS who volunteered or were assigned tried very, very hard to make the trips pleasurable and interesting.
I hope I've answered you original question. You know, 611 is intact and could be restored to operation again with some expensive repairs and maintenance. Probably not for a long, long while though. Hope you have a safe day and a happy holiday. gdc

[UPTRAIN]

This is UPTRAIN yes you are right that insurence went sky high in the mid-late 90s and also it is getting more and moer expensive to maintain a working steam locomotive. That is exactly why the Frisco 1522 was retired. I also attended the last run and yas it is sad to see it go but be glad you were there.