FBI called for taking pic's of Amtrak

[gacuster]

Those who surrender liberty for perceived safety in the end will have neither liberty or safety-Benjamin Franklin.

[Randy Stahl]

Nobody said we had to like it, we just gotta do it. NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE BY THE HAND OF ANOTHER. We are at war and must accept the conditions that go along with it. Really we have little choice, if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about. At least my home town isn't a *** battle field.
Randy

[Anonymous]

About 15 years ago (I think) coin collectors had passed on their behalf in Washington a federal Hobby Restoration Act that let them do things like coin and collect legitimate copies of rare coins (so indicated by a tiny stamped "COPY" in certain places on the coin).

Maybe we need a Rail Transportation and Photography Restoration Act. If someone has brought this up before, please forgive me as my machine is giving me fits tonite.
al

[Anonymous]

Okay, I think we need to take a little breather here.

You were taking pictures from public property. This is both legal and constitutional.

Someone thought you looked suspicious, so they reported you. This is both legal and constitutinal (though somebody really ought to talk to him or her about hobbies like ours).

An agent from the FBI called you. This is both legal and constitutional.

The FBI agent asked to see your photographs. This is both legal and constitutional. If he were not an FBI agent, but he asked to see your photographs (maybe if he was a railfan too), you wouldn't hesitate to show him your great new pictures of an ex-Conrail GE-8-40C or something.

You agreed to show him your pictures, which is legal and constitutional, and the right choice. After all, if you said no, if he wanted to see them, he might get a warrant (whether he'd get it is debatable), and you would be sharing your photographs under less friendly circumstances. Don't blame him for being obtrusive--you surrendered your right to the privacy of your photographs voluntarily, he was just doing his job.

Remember, that for all the bad press it gets, the FBI, CIA, Secret Service, and so forth, are there to help you. Did a con-scheme in the Bahamas buy arms with money you sent them for humanitarian aid? You go to one of these guys. Did a bank get held up? The FBI is on it.

If he told you that you couldn't watch trains ever again, then we have problems, but, at least this far, though it might rub you the wrong way, everything that has happened is legal and constitutional.

Do we sometimes get ordered away from tracks in violation of our rights? Yes, but this isn't one of those cases. When you talk with him, check his ID (Dan is right, if it is an imposter, then we have an actual PROBLEM), cooperate, and next time, he will probably realize that the guy with scanner, timetable, and camera by the tracks is just another foamer.

Do be sure to point out that railfans will be the first members of the public to recognize if something is wrong (we see smoking traction motors, shifted loads, stuff like that).

Sincerely,
Daniel Parks

[coborn35]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

Not just that; I remembered that Walker guy who went to Afghanistan to fight for the Taliban and he wasn't middle-eastern decent.

And he came back with his head in a sack.
I am not going to take pics of Amtrak for a while until this stuff dies down.

[Anonymous]

Continue to take your Photo's.
Allan.

[Paul3]

artmark wrote:

QUOTE: I'm looking at the post you refer to and I can't find where I said this was a correct path. I also cannot find a post under my authorship where I favor locking up innocent civilians. Can you point out where I may have said that or elude to such activities? What I am pointing out is how the outside world, unaware of fans and railroading at large, look at the photography of trains, nothing more.

Where I got the WWII reference in your post was from the following:

I agree with Antonio. At this point the law enforcement people are not going to lay back on anything. They don't care if it's a Dash-anything that you need a picture of. People are upset. The law has to do its job. There was a shooting in the London Subway this morning. During WWII you weren't going up to Horseshoe Curve to get pics either.

You were equating a WWII practice of denying civil rights to photographers to modern day restrictions and seemingly in a positive way. My point was just because it was done in WWII didn't make it right as there were many things done in the name of "security" during WWII that were immoral and wrong, one of which were the Asian-American concentration camps.

Gabe wrote:

QUOTE: The retrenching of our civil liberties after 9/11 is far from original in our country's history. I am not saying that makes it right. Many of the aforementioned historical retrenchments of American civil liberties are an absolute opprobrium. Nonetheless, I think the contention that we wont get them back when the danger has clearly passed is a rather facile and unsupported claim.

There's only one problem. Who said there will ever be an end to this "war"? Seriously. The only way to really stop it is for the West to surrender & accede to the terrorists' demands, and we sure ain't gonna do that. Or, the terrorists could all have a sudden change of heart, and decide to live and let live (and I don't think they are going to do that, either). So what does that leave us? In an endless war where there are no victories, only casualties.

The probable result will be the continuing erosion of our civil rights as the citizens of the West demand security over all else. And the only way to try to deliver that is to turn the West into a police state not unlike "1984". Hey, the tighter the security, the safer you are, right?

I agree that if the current "emergency" were to end tomorrow, and the terrorists all gave up and went home forever, that a lot of the new restrictions on our rights would go away. But can anyone honestly say that they think it's gonna happen? I don't...

Randy Stahl wrote:

QUOTE: Nobody said we had to like it, we just gotta do it. NO ONE DESERVES TO DIE BY THE HAND OF ANOTHER. We are at war and must accept the conditions that go along with it. Really we have little choice, if you are doing nothing wrong you have nothing to worry about.

Are you serious? "The innocent have nothing to fear." (didn't they say that during the Salem witch trials?) Do you know how many innocent people are in jail in this country for crimes they did not commit? I don't, but jeez, it seems that I'm continuing to read in the paper about how some guy was released from prison after X years because DNA evidence proved he didn't do the crime. Then there was the "child abuse" scares in the mid 1980's, where dozens of innocent people were jailed, some for more than a decade, because of prosecuter misconduct while interrogating children. Then there's the aforementioned WWII concentration camps we ran... Sorry, but just "doing nothing" doesn't ensure your freedom (and probably never has).

Finally, for my own little comment about this whole situation, I think a simple snippet about the Metra incident a while back (you know, the one that made Trains mag?) rather illuminates where my worries come from. When the police were questioning the two photographers, one of the cops said that the new anti-terrorist law "superceded the Constitution".

I'm still stunned over that one.

Paul A. Cutler III
*************
Weather Or No Go New Haven
*************

[peterjenkinson1956]

PICTURE THIS..... Achmed whykickapaki.. sat in his home in islamabad watcing FOX TV on his sat dish and on comes... BAD BOYS,,BAD BOYS,, WHAT YOU GONNA DO ? ,,WHAT YOU GONNA DO ? WHEN THE COPS COME FOR YOU and to nights feature crims are not meth brewers or bank robbers BUT a retired couple from the midwest who just happen to park their R V within 10 miles of railroad tracks.. fbi railroad police and helicopters..as old henry was lead away from his rv to 28 years in a fed pen his last words were 'MY GOD THE BAD GUYS HAVE WON" and good old achmed nearly chokes on his curried mutton as he laughs..........ps why didnt you just hang up on the cop,,why explain yourself..YOU ARE INOCENT...PETER

[Anonymous]

Well, the powers that be have STILL not caught the Anthrax killer yet. So everytime you see someone mail a letter, be sure to call the FBI.

Paul

QUOTE: Originally posted by AntonioFP45

FT Thunder,

I'm not criticizing you, but why is the person that called the FBI stupid?

[

[Anonymous]

Give up your freedoms and the terrorists have won.

Paul

QUOTE: Originally posted by coborn35
I am not going to take pics of Amtrak for a while until this stuff dies down.