Who Sang the Central Fan ?

[daveklepper]

I agree with that statement. The visual designs on the Central were a match for anyone, overall. I do think the New Haven's I-5 and the N&W J the best streamlined locomotives, but the NYC's Century and Empire State (two different) were certianly up there. I did not care for the shovel-noise Commodore Vanderbilt. Also, the streamlined Pacific for the Mercury, I don't remember at this point whether it followed the Comnmodore's or the Century's styling, and need some memory refreshment. But Beech Grove did a find job on building a light-weight streamline train from spartan arch-roof commuter cars for the Mercury. I rode the Century in the good days and thought its interior design as fine as anything could be. And ditto the interior of the Empire Builder coaches.

The finest visual design of the PRR interiors was not, in my opinion, anytime on the Broadway. It was the parlors and coaches for the Senator and Congressionals. Those were really great cars. The diners on both the Broadway and the Century were the best interiors on both trains, I thought.

The worst interior design of a modern car was the original modernization of the Lehigh Valley for the Black Diamond and its other name trains. When you reclined your coach seat you stared straight up into the flourescents supposedly hidden behind an "egg crate" ceiling; and you needed to put a sweater, scarf, or jackets, over your face to get some rest. I believe this was changed while the cars were still in service, about 1952 or 1953.

[eastside]

Perhaps it's because anyone who admired the NYC for the elegant design of its steam locomotives and the classy and understated livery of its diesels and passenger cars similarly has a personality that isn't likely to be boastful of his interest in the NYC.

[daveklepper]

The Southerner was inaugurated all-coach but I believe had Pullmans added at some point in its career, even before it was combined with the Crescent.

Also, late in the career of the Empire State Express, it was combined with the Laurentian up to and down from Albany, and at that point, the obs went to Montreal and not to Buffalo and Cleveland, and at that time it was for 1st Class passengers only, later than the time I discussed.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

Mitch, I traveled mostly by myself. Maybe the conductor wanted to keep passengers who would not spend money on drinks out of the observation car. And I was told only once, and didn't try again. So maybe that day the normal club car was not operating (during WWII) and they used the obs for the 1st class passengers. Either explanation would make sense.

I do distinctly remember that coach passengers were allowed in the Silver Meteor obs and in that on the Southener.

You may be right about the conductor. We had an attendant that wouldn't let people sit in the obs car if they weren't ordering hard liquor. Even if you wanted a Coke he would give you just the can and tell you to go back to your seat. When we questioned about this he stated," We gotta have whiskey drinkers back here. We can't load the place up with jokers and jivers!"

The Silver Meteor, like a number of eastern/southern operations had the first-class section towards the head end and the coaches in the rear. That's why they perimitted all passengers back there. I believe the "Southerner" was all-coach.

Mitch

[daveklepper]

Mitch, I traveled mostly by myself. Maybe the conductor wanted to keep passengers who would not spend money on drinks out of the observation car. And I was told only once, and didn't try again. So maybe that day the normal club car was not operating (during WWII) and they used the obs for the 1st class passengers. Either explanation would make sense.

I do distinctly remember that coach passengers were allowed in the Silver Meteor obs and in that on the Southener.

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by daveklepper

I left out heretofore many NY - Detroit trips on the Empire State Express when the Budd coaches had the paintings on each bulkhead and the food in the diner was excellent and the train usually close to on time even in the middle of WWII. I always wanted to ride the London and Port Stanley interurban which I saw from the coach window (at St, Thomas?) but never had the opportunity. The observation car, however, was restricted to 1st Class passengers and I always rode coach as a youngster. If I went overnight, it was either the Wolverine by coach or PRR's Red Arrow, which although a more round-about route, was approximately the same running time. The 44-seat coaches on the PRR were more comfortable with very generous sized restrooms. Of course, during the war, one occasionally had to sit in a modernized P-70, not nearly as comfortable, but the same kind of thing could happen on the NYC's Wolverine too.

Dave,
I don't mean to start a thing but your parents must have told you the obs on The Empire State was restricted to keep you out of there.

On the Empire State Express the baggage-club car was for the parlor passengers. The parlors were on the head end of the consist. The obs car was all lounge and for the coach folk. On later NYC daytime trains, the Chicago-Detroit service specificly, it was reversed. Coaches, full lounge, diner, sleeper as parlor,parlor obs car.

Mitch

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by ericsp

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

er... what's a Wolverine?

It is a fierce carnivorous animal closely related to the weasel that is usually black with a brown band on each side of its body. They are indigenous to Michigan and other areas where there is tundra.

Gabe

But that's not important right now........

Shirley, you can't be serious!

Yes I am, and don't call me Shirley.

Gabe

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

er... what's a Wolverine?

It is a fierce carnivorous animal closely related to the weasel that is usually black with a brown band on each side of its body. They are indigenous to Michigan and other areas where there is tundra.

Gabe

But that's not important right now........

Shirley, you can't be serious!

[daveklepper]

I left out heretofore many NY - Detroit trips on the Empire State Express when the Budd coaches had the paintings on each bulkhead and the food in the diner was excellent and the train usually close to on time even in the middle of WWII. I always wanted to ride the London and Port Stanley interurban which I saw from the coach window (at St, Thomas?) but never had the opportunity. The observation car, however, was restricted to 1st Class passengers and I always rode coach as a youngster. If I went overnight, it was either the Wolverine by coach or PRR's Red Arrow, which although a more round-about route, was approximately the same running time. The 44-seat coaches on the PRR were more comfortable with very generous sized restrooms. Of course, during the war, one occasionally had to sit in a modernized P-70, not nearly as comfortable, but the same kind of thing could happen on the NYC's Wolverine too.

[Anonymous]

Seems a little dangerous for us UP fans too. I always liked the NYC also.

[Murphy Siding]

tomtrain: Whoa dude, that's pretty heavy! But any major dude with half a heart surely would tell you my friend.

[Anonymous]

I've thought of "Deacon Blues" as being a lament about maturation - leaving the familiar, cherished "fast life" and its circle (for which he had developed apt skills) for the heretofore scorned and laughed-at "respectable life" he is uncomfortably growing into.

Alabama's Crimson Tide with Coach Bear Bryant were perennial winners on the college gridiron. Oh, for those care-free days. He is now into the emotional learning curve of a next step of life he has wryly thought of as for Church Deacons - and he is one.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark

Does anyone really understand the lyrics of Steely Dan? I'm a fan but "Deacon Blues" just throws me.

Mitch

Not since I stopped smoking crack......something about the french wanting open access to freight railroads, tinted windows and space aliens with reflective flags on their tripod hovercraft and whether you can take thier picture from platform 7.

[Anonymous]

Does anyone really understand the lyrics of Steely Dan? I'm a fan but "Deacon Blues" just throws me.

Mitch

[Murphy Siding]

"This one time.......at band camp......"

[daveklepper]

The "great event" happened around 1969-1970. Possibly after the PC merger. After the name trains were dropped and replaced by "The Steel Fleet", there was both a Chicago - New York slumbercoach and a Detroit - New York slumbercoach, but the Detroit one was dropped a few months later, leaving me no choice but to spring for the price of a roomette. Thinking it over, possibly the porter, who knew me from previous trips, suggested that I, with my screwdriver and pliers, could fix what was wrong with her roomette. Or maybe he had other ideas to start with! I may have already stripped to my swim-suit shorts by the time she knocked on the roomette door.

[Anonymous]

Dave,
You have the most fascinating posts.
I'm an Illibois Central fan and an Pennsy fan. I like the NYC but I always regarded them as an eastern version of the CNW. Now that's not a bad thing as I like the CNW (my alma matter0 But the Pennsy just gets to me like no other. Where I went to high school in the mid-sixties the NYC and Pennsy ran side-by-side along South Chicago Avenue. All those trains in the morning. Too many to choose from.

Mitch

[Murphy Siding]

daveklepper : was that late December,back in '63 ?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainman2244

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

I shot the Central fan...But I did not shoot the Pennsy..[;)]

Just hope nobody finds the dumpster[:p][:0]r[:I]

But if you kick it real hard, you might make trainfinder22 jump out!

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

I shot the Central fan...But I did not shoot the Pennsy..[;)]

Just hope nobody finds the dumpster[:p][:0]r[:I]

[wctransfer]

yea, im a WC fan, and i like IC's SD40's and 70's, i find them more interesting(Them as in WC and IC) GO WC!

Alec

[Anonymous]

Not trying to win anything.

[daveklepper]

The New York Central had a train called the Wolverine. The Wolverines are the Football Team of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, and the Wolverine was the New York to Chicago train that operated via Detroit and Ann Arbor, using the Canada Southern - Michigan Central route through Windsor and the tunnel. Rode the train many times, discussed my trip to Detroit in the height of a snowstorm to work on the Delles Airport Project, through sleeper Boston - Buffalo on the New England States, then to the Wolverine to Chicago or Detroit only. When the train had a sleepercoach, that only ran as far as Detroit (from New York). It was a heavily patronized, not very very fast train, and when the all-sleeper Detroit Limited was discontinued (sort of the NYC version of the PRR's Pittsburgher), its remaining sleepers were added to the Wolverine along with some of the clientel. The Wolverine lasted as long as the 20th Century, being merged into the one overnight New York and Boston to Chicago via Detroit, Chicago via Toledo, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Toronto train that sometimes exceeded 20 cars between Albany and Buffalo, that we called "The Steel Fleet."

Up to this move, NYC passenger service was pretty decent. Except for the 20th Century, I'd say the service ranked with that of the PRR's usual, not up to the CB&Q and UP and AT&SF, but reasonable. The 20th Century was in a class by itself and was almost the equal of the Super Chief, and sometimes was better than the Broadway, sometimes, especially before its ending, just slightly below. After the train consolidations, service slipped very badly, and no one in his right mind would depend on the snack cars that replaced diners on the Detroit-Chicago service (for example) for decent food. (Fortrunately, the Grand Trunk introduced the Mowhawk with its excellent diner and comfortable coaches.) Then one found roomettes with doors that wouldn't stay shut (could be embarrasing), lights not working etc, and this persisted through the Penn Central era until Amtrak. Generally, toward the merger, the PRR was doing a better job of taking care of passengers, and the Broadway stayed all-Pullman until the merger. I think Dryfuss did a good job, even better than Lowey, except for the GG-1. However, on a NY - Chicago trip I did often appreciate the economy of a slumbercoach and thus rode NYC instead of enjoying the genuinely first class service on the Broadway.

I'll admit that once upon a time I was a bit less moral than I am now (but never fooled around with minors or married women) and sowed a wild oat or two, because one night on a Detroit - NY trip a young woman found her roomette impossible to use, sleeper space was all sold-out, and I was not quite gallant enough to ride coach but was willing to share. Let us see, that must have been about 34-35 years ago! If I recall, the train was late enough so I left it at Croton-Harmon to taxi to my office in White Plains, rather than go to my Manhattan apartment. The gal went directly to NY. I gave the porter an extra large tip and treated the girl to breakfast in the diner. I don't remember whether she was going after a theatrical or a secretarial job in NY but she had talents in both fields. That was the only time in my life I smoked marawana (sorry about the spelling), since she had a stash and insisted I share it. Didn't care for it one bit, but at least i had that experience. Otherwise, I won't comment about the night.

One very notable experience on the NYC was using the West Shore from Weehawken to Kingston and then the Ulster and Delaware branch to Fleishmans in a Catskill mountains, and return. The branch used 2-6-0's and we had a J-1 Hudson one way on the West Shore and a K-something Pacific on the other. I rode the back platform, and we passed frieghts with Mowkawks (4-8-2's with smoke deflectors).

Also rode the Adorandak branch to Tupper Lake, now on the route of the Adorandak Scenic Ry.

During the worst days of passenger service on the NYC, the Westchester commuter trains were still kept clean and in good condition, far better than the New Haven's, because management realized Wall Street people rode those trains.

[Anonymous]

You win, tomtrain. Despite my R.A.'s assurances, riding a Michigan-based train called "The Wolverine" has that ring of solid truth.

SOOoo, did they hate Bard College too?

[tree68]

My railfanning days started in earnest well after the demise of the Central, although it is the historical root of the railroads I fan now. I was (and to some extent still am) a fan of the C&O, which ran through my hometown in Michigan. I rode NYC from near where I now live to Michigan when I was very young, or so I'm told.

[JoeKoh]

I went to the dedication for the Jet train historical marker in Bryan ohio and found a coach chinntennigo falls in wapakoneta ohio.and I work next to the old nyc main in archbold ohio.NS keeps that track in good shape.
stay safe
joe

[AntonioFP45]

Though I model southeastern railroads (SCL and it's predecessors) I've always been a fan of the "Water Level Route". I like the "Lightning Striper" scheme.

A book I strongly recommend for New York Central fans is: Rails Along the Hudson.

It's out of print, but copies in good condition pop up on Ebay. Great black and white photos of New York Central action from New York City and northward covering the Depression time right up to the Penn Central merger.

Wonderful memories for me since I'm from the Bronx and had an uncle who drove those big 3rd Rail powered Box Cab monsters for the Central.

It's funny that no one here has mentioned that there are two prototype E units running around in NYC "Lightning stripes!" Should please any fan!

[Anonymous]

I've always had to chuckle when people I've known who are Steely Dan fans have tried to figure out Donald Fagan's lyrics, and they bump into the line above. Knowing some railroad history does help sometimes. There's an Annandale-on Hudson, NY, too (Bard College). Fagan and fellow band member Walter Becker met each other while attending Bard College. The Wolverine was one of Central's NYC-Detroit-Chicago passenger trains.

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

er... what's a Wolverine?

It is a fierce carnivorous animal closely related to the weasel that is usually black with a brown band on each side of its body. They are indigenous to Michigan and other areas where there is tundra.

Gabe

But that's not important right now........