Who Sang the Central Fan ?

[nanaimo73]

There are a lot of Wisconsin Central fans on this forum, and several Illinois Central fans as well. Where are the New York Central fans ?
As Conrail turned into a modern NYC in the 1990s, did NYC fans turn into Conrail fans ? We have lots of PRR fans, which is a good thing, but why can't we talk about the NYC ?
The T1 is a very popular topic, but perhaps it was outperformed by Kiefer's Niagaras. Was the J3a the best North American passenger-only steam locomotive ? Was the 20th Century Limited the best passenger train ?
If there are any Central fans out there, what is it about the NYC that you miss ?
I do not want to start a NYC-PRR war or anything like that. I would just like the Central to get some space on the forum. It is well deserved.

[chad thomas]

I shot the Central fan...But I did not shoot the Pennsy..[;)]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

I shot the Central fan...But I did not shoot the Pennsy..[;)]

heh heh heh.....

[gabe]

I think this is a good topic. I am one of you "other Central fans" as I would rather read about the Illinois Central or the Wisconsin Central. However, I have always found the Pennsy more interesting than the NYC.

I do, however, think the Niagras are marvelous machines and I really lament the fact that none of them have been saved. I also am kind of interested in the Peoria & Eastern (a subsidy of the NYC).

Gabe

[Anonymous]

"I remember the thirty-five sweet goodbyes when you put me on the Wolverine up to Annandale."

er... what's a Wolverine?

Always have liked the Hudsons and Niagras, the boulevards of steel, the high line, the Hudson River, and North by Northwest. The flexivan trains were neat, too.

[adrianspeeder]

Looks like another Central fan made it to my list of people to take out...

Adrianspeeder

[Anonymous]

Sorry, but there's nary a railroad I don't like.

[CopCarSS]

They were all alienated after the Penn Central Merger. All the NYC fans thought it should have been the Central Penn Railroad. Why did those upstarts with the Keystone get top billing? [:P]

Seriously though, I liked the central. The Hudsons were OK for those most part, and downright spectacular with the Dreyfuss styling. The 20th Century was definately a cool train, and one I would've liked to have ridden. There lwere ots of cool diesels in attractive paint schemes. Yeah, the Central was a pretty good road.

However, I've always found myself attracted to the Pennsy, though. Maybe it was the paradoxical way of running the "Standard Railroad of the World." There was a lot of non-stnadard on the "Standard." Belpaire fireboxes, duplexes, very little articulated stuff, no Northerns (well...I guess the T1 was sort of a 4-8-4...but not really),4 track mains, etc. For a long time, the Pennsy seemed to thrive on doing the opposite of everybody else.

Raymond Loewy, Pinstripes, GG-1's, J10's, T1's, K4's, Q2's, I-1's, the Broadway Limited, Horseshoe Curve, Altoona, etc. etc. etc. How can a railfan not be a Pennsy fan? Unfortunately, I think the NYC, though a great RR, sometimes resides in the shadows of its arch-competitor.

Just my [2c] of course.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

"I remember the thirty-five sweet goodbyes when you put me on the Wolverine up to Annandale."

er... what's a Wolverine?

Always have liked the Hudsons and Niagras, the boulevards of steel, the high line, the Hudson River, and North by Northwest. The flexivan trains were neat, too.

It is a fierce carnivorous animal closely related to the weasel that is usually black with a brown band on each side of its body. They are indigenous to Michigan and other areas where there is tundra.

Gabe

[Anonymous]

FYI: Steeley Dan attended William & Mary college in Williamsburg, VA. You can get an idea of how much they loved their alma mater with another one of their hits, "I'm Never Going Back to My Old School."

But to topic: The Wolverine was a bus line that used to run from the Northern Virginia suburbs ("Annandale") to points south.

I am at a bit of a loss to explain the name because as far as I know, the Commonwealth of Virginia never has had any wolverines, unless zoos count. Fresh-water otters, yes, and perhaps some badgers, but no wolverines. Nonetheless I have the Wolverine bus line's derivation on good authority by a resident of Annandale who was my residence advisor at the U. of Va.

And more than one alum of William & Mary has told me they're never going back to their old school.... you can get an excellent undergrad. education but the socializing is close to nil., I've been told.

Sorry if I've gone on too long but we don't get that many Steely Dan fans here.....

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by gabe

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain

er... what's a Wolverine?

It is a fierce carnivorous animal closely related to the weasel that is usually black with a brown band on each side of its body. They are indigenous to Michigan and other areas where there is tundra.

Gabe

But that's not important right now........

[Anonymous]

I've always had to chuckle when people I've known who are Steely Dan fans have tried to figure out Donald Fagan's lyrics, and they bump into the line above. Knowing some railroad history does help sometimes. There's an Annandale-on Hudson, NY, too (Bard College). Fagan and fellow band member Walter Becker met each other while attending Bard College. The Wolverine was one of Central's NYC-Detroit-Chicago passenger trains.

[AntonioFP45]

Though I model southeastern railroads (SCL and it's predecessors) I've always been a fan of the "Water Level Route". I like the "Lightning Striper" scheme.

A book I strongly recommend for New York Central fans is: Rails Along the Hudson.

It's out of print, but copies in good condition pop up on Ebay. Great black and white photos of New York Central action from New York City and northward covering the Depression time right up to the Penn Central merger.

Wonderful memories for me since I'm from the Bronx and had an uncle who drove those big 3rd Rail powered Box Cab monsters for the Central.

It's funny that no one here has mentioned that there are two prototype E units running around in NYC "Lightning stripes!" Should please any fan!

[JoeKoh]

I went to the dedication for the Jet train historical marker in Bryan ohio and found a coach chinntennigo falls in wapakoneta ohio.and I work next to the old nyc main in archbold ohio.NS keeps that track in good shape.
stay safe
joe

[tree68]

My railfanning days started in earnest well after the demise of the Central, although it is the historical root of the railroads I fan now. I was (and to some extent still am) a fan of the C&O, which ran through my hometown in Michigan. I rode NYC from near where I now live to Michigan when I was very young, or so I'm told.

[Anonymous]

You win, tomtrain. Despite my R.A.'s assurances, riding a Michigan-based train called "The Wolverine" has that ring of solid truth.

SOOoo, did they hate Bard College too?

[daveklepper]

The New York Central had a train called the Wolverine. The Wolverines are the Football Team of the University of Michigan in Ann Arbor, and the Wolverine was the New York to Chicago train that operated via Detroit and Ann Arbor, using the Canada Southern - Michigan Central route through Windsor and the tunnel. Rode the train many times, discussed my trip to Detroit in the height of a snowstorm to work on the Delles Airport Project, through sleeper Boston - Buffalo on the New England States, then to the Wolverine to Chicago or Detroit only. When the train had a sleepercoach, that only ran as far as Detroit (from New York). It was a heavily patronized, not very very fast train, and when the all-sleeper Detroit Limited was discontinued (sort of the NYC version of the PRR's Pittsburgher), its remaining sleepers were added to the Wolverine along with some of the clientel. The Wolverine lasted as long as the 20th Century, being merged into the one overnight New York and Boston to Chicago via Detroit, Chicago via Toledo, Cincinnati, St. Louis, and Toronto train that sometimes exceeded 20 cars between Albany and Buffalo, that we called "The Steel Fleet."

Up to this move, NYC passenger service was pretty decent. Except for the 20th Century, I'd say the service ranked with that of the PRR's usual, not up to the CB&Q and UP and AT&SF, but reasonable. The 20th Century was in a class by itself and was almost the equal of the Super Chief, and sometimes was better than the Broadway, sometimes, especially before its ending, just slightly below. After the train consolidations, service slipped very badly, and no one in his right mind would depend on the snack cars that replaced diners on the Detroit-Chicago service (for example) for decent food. (Fortrunately, the Grand Trunk introduced the Mowhawk with its excellent diner and comfortable coaches.) Then one found roomettes with doors that wouldn't stay shut (could be embarrasing), lights not working etc, and this persisted through the Penn Central era until Amtrak. Generally, toward the merger, the PRR was doing a better job of taking care of passengers, and the Broadway stayed all-Pullman until the merger. I think Dryfuss did a good job, even better than Lowey, except for the GG-1. However, on a NY - Chicago trip I did often appreciate the economy of a slumbercoach and thus rode NYC instead of enjoying the genuinely first class service on the Broadway.

I'll admit that once upon a time I was a bit less moral than I am now (but never fooled around with minors or married women) and sowed a wild oat or two, because one night on a Detroit - NY trip a young woman found her roomette impossible to use, sleeper space was all sold-out, and I was not quite gallant enough to ride coach but was willing to share. Let us see, that must have been about 34-35 years ago! If I recall, the train was late enough so I left it at Croton-Harmon to taxi to my office in White Plains, rather than go to my Manhattan apartment. The gal went directly to NY. I gave the porter an extra large tip and treated the girl to breakfast in the diner. I don't remember whether she was going after a theatrical or a secretarial job in NY but she had talents in both fields. That was the only time in my life I smoked marawana (sorry about the spelling), since she had a stash and insisted I share it. Didn't care for it one bit, but at least i had that experience. Otherwise, I won't comment about the night.

One very notable experience on the NYC was using the West Shore from Weehawken to Kingston and then the Ulster and Delaware branch to Fleishmans in a Catskill mountains, and return. The branch used 2-6-0's and we had a J-1 Hudson one way on the West Shore and a K-something Pacific on the other. I rode the back platform, and we passed frieghts with Mowkawks (4-8-2's with smoke deflectors).

Also rode the Adorandak branch to Tupper Lake, now on the route of the Adorandak Scenic Ry.

During the worst days of passenger service on the NYC, the Westchester commuter trains were still kept clean and in good condition, far better than the New Haven's, because management realized Wall Street people rode those trains.

[Anonymous]

Not trying to win anything.

[wctransfer]

yea, im a WC fan, and i like IC's SD40's and 70's, i find them more interesting(Them as in WC and IC) GO WC!

Alec

[Anonymous]

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

I shot the Central fan...But I did not shoot the Pennsy..[;)]

Just hope nobody finds the dumpster[:p][:0]r[:I]

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by trainman2244

QUOTE: Originally posted by chad thomas

I shot the Central fan...But I did not shoot the Pennsy..[;)]

Just hope nobody finds the dumpster[:p][:0]r[:I]

But if you kick it real hard, you might make trainfinder22 jump out!

[Murphy Siding]

daveklepper : was that late December,back in '63 ?

[Anonymous]

Dave,
You have the most fascinating posts.
I'm an Illibois Central fan and an Pennsy fan. I like the NYC but I always regarded them as an eastern version of the CNW. Now that's not a bad thing as I like the CNW (my alma matter0 But the Pennsy just gets to me like no other. Where I went to high school in the mid-sixties the NYC and Pennsy ran side-by-side along South Chicago Avenue. All those trains in the morning. Too many to choose from.

Mitch

[daveklepper]

The "great event" happened around 1969-1970. Possibly after the PC merger. After the name trains were dropped and replaced by "The Steel Fleet", there was both a Chicago - New York slumbercoach and a Detroit - New York slumbercoach, but the Detroit one was dropped a few months later, leaving me no choice but to spring for the price of a roomette. Thinking it over, possibly the porter, who knew me from previous trips, suggested that I, with my screwdriver and pliers, could fix what was wrong with her roomette. Or maybe he had other ideas to start with! I may have already stripped to my swim-suit shorts by the time she knocked on the roomette door.

[Murphy Siding]

"This one time.......at band camp......"

[Anonymous]

Does anyone really understand the lyrics of Steely Dan? I'm a fan but "Deacon Blues" just throws me.

Mitch

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark

Does anyone really understand the lyrics of Steely Dan? I'm a fan but "Deacon Blues" just throws me.

Mitch

Not since I stopped smoking crack......something about the french wanting open access to freight railroads, tinted windows and space aliens with reflective flags on their tripod hovercraft and whether you can take thier picture from platform 7.

[Anonymous]

I've thought of "Deacon Blues" as being a lament about maturation - leaving the familiar, cherished "fast life" and its circle (for which he had developed apt skills) for the heretofore scorned and laughed-at "respectable life" he is uncomfortably growing into.

Alabama's Crimson Tide with Coach Bear Bryant were perennial winners on the college gridiron. Oh, for those care-free days. He is now into the emotional learning curve of a next step of life he has wryly thought of as for Church Deacons - and he is one.

[Murphy Siding]

tomtrain: Whoa dude, that's pretty heavy! But any major dude with half a heart surely would tell you my friend.

[Anonymous]

Seems a little dangerous for us UP fans too. I always liked the NYC also.