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Dark windows...

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Dark windows...
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:18 PM
Why are the windows on the GE's so dark? I was told before that it had to do with the air conditioning. Can anybody elaborate?

Cway
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Posted by joegreen on Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:23 PM
People were shooting at the engineers and conductors and now new GE and EMD engines get tinted windows.

It's sad but true.
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Posted by edblysard on Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:29 PM
Why would you tint the windows on your car?
Same reasons apply to locomotives.
Ed

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Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:42 PM
Not to sound foolish,but dumb***people would still shoot at trainmen if the windows were tinted or not. Are they bulletproof or no? Also,I wouldn't tint the windows of my car because I don't care for it. I just have the standard factory tint and it's good enough...

Cway
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Posted by joegreen on Sunday, July 17, 2005 6:53 PM
They've tested bulletproof windows before but if a crew is trapped in an engine after a derailment they couldn't break the windows open.
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Posted by csxengineer98 on Sunday, July 17, 2005 7:16 PM
the windows are bullet resistant....not totaly bullet proof... small arms fire will be stopped by the glass... high powered rifles depending on the range... can penitrate the glass...(seen it done on an old window).. as far as the tinting...its supost to help keep the solor energy from the sun out..and keep the cabs somewhat cooler then non-tinted windows...same concept as tinted windows on office buildings...
csx engineer
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Posted by BNSFGP38 on Sunday, July 17, 2005 8:20 PM
Lucky you got air conditioning...........Im still the the GP-38 and GP-18 world. [xx(]
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Posted by Murphy Siding on Sunday, July 17, 2005 9:27 PM
The tinting also reduces the fading on the "Rich Corinthian Leather" and other fine furnishings inside the cab.[;)]

Thanks to Chris / CopCarSS for my avatar.

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Posted by csxengineer98 on Monday, July 18, 2005 2:55 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Murphy Siding

The tinting also the fading on the "Rich Corinthian Leather" and other fine furnishings inside the cab.[;)]
oh yea... the imported itailion hand sticted seat covers...parkay hard wood floors...and the tile mosayics in the bathrooms... the onboard AM/FM/CD players with digital 5.1 surrond systems..and the big 42in flat plazma TV on the back wall with DVD player.... the tint is all keep it form being sean from the gernal public..and railfans that "think" the railroad is a pleasher cruse..lol
csx engineer
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Posted by spbed on Monday, July 18, 2005 6:36 AM
Why not check with the maker of the locos? I am sure they can give you the answers to your questions concerning tinting the cab windows. [:o)][:p][:)]

Originally posted by Cway95
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 18, 2005 6:56 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed

Why not check with the maker of the locos? I am sure they can give you the answers to your questions concerning tinting the cab windows. [:o)][:p][:)]

What a jerk! He was just asking.
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Posted by adrianspeeder on Monday, July 18, 2005 7:42 AM
Note the smilies at the end. calm down dude.

I go with tinted windows just to keep it cooler.

Adrianspeeder

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Posted by Modelcar on Monday, July 18, 2005 8:03 AM
...And some tinted windows {on Vehicles}, from the factory are rather dark....My S-10 Xtreme has factory "deep tinted" windows and you can not identify who would be in the vehicle from the rear and small side windows but the front side and windshield are not quite as dark but still affords a measure of privacy and helps keep out heat...Same for moon roof glass.....I expect an engine headed south or southwest with a hot afternoon sun the deep tint on side windows would be some help to the engineer.....

Quentin

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Posted by dharmon on Monday, July 18, 2005 1:18 PM
Unfortunately, I suspect that it has as much to do with comfort the electronics as it does comfort of the crew. As the systems become more "chip" dependent, they become more temperature sensitive. The cooler the better.
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 18, 2005 5:10 PM
As long as all you live in a country that holds gun ownership as sacred, you're more likely to have these kinds of problems. Seems to me recent model CN and CP locomotives don't have heavily tinted glass!

KB
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Posted by dharmon on Monday, July 18, 2005 5:58 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by kenbowes

As long as all you live in a country that holds gun ownership as sacred



I'm NRA and I vote.

Dan
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Posted by railroadnut675 on Monday, July 18, 2005 7:12 PM
it doesn't matter so long as everyone is safe and feels ok ( and if they don't feel like someone will jump onto the tracks with an AK-47
All hail the Mighty HO Scale Does thinking you're the last sane person on Earth make you crazy? -- Will Smith from I, Robot
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Posted by adrianspeeder on Monday, July 18, 2005 7:57 PM
DO NOT turn this into a gun thread! Or you will be sorry.

It is legal to have the back windows fully tinted of an SUV, and I went with a 20% for the front windows on some of the trucks.

Adrianspeeder

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 18, 2005 7:59 PM
Believe the CSX engineer's explanation. For "attack protection," check 49CFR Part 223 relating to requirements for locomotive glass (glazing) - Type I and Type II. Your library may have the CFR's, or you can find it on the internet. It's interesting, revealing reading.
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Posted by tree68 on Monday, July 18, 2005 8:21 PM
Re: Dark windows and target practice. The windows are large compared to what would be visible of the crew. If you can't see them, you're a little less likely to get lucky and hit them.

And the bozos who would shoot at train crews probably care little about the NRA, or anything else but their own amusement....

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Posted by tnchpsk8 on Monday, July 18, 2005 8:25 PM
My bet would be as a heat deterrent. Having been a long-haul trucker for thirty years, I would put aftermarket tint on the side and rear windows to block out some of the sun's heat therefore letting the a/c work better. As for CN and CP not having tint on their windows maybe both companies feel that with the "cooler" temps in Canada they don't feel it as necessary as locomotives traveling through the South and Southwestern states.
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Posted by Modelcar on Monday, July 18, 2005 9:43 PM
....Question for railroaders....Is there any insulation in and around the perimeter of the cab....I would imagine it would cut down on some noise and of course the heat and cold....

Quentin

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Posted by mudchicken on Monday, July 18, 2005 10:19 PM
naw......The real reason has to do with those mirrors and the hogger cannot be seen looking at 'em![:D][:D][:D]
Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 18, 2005 10:20 PM
i believe there is insulation around the frame of the cab, similar to what is in a car.
and as for CN and CP, a large majority of CP's AC's do indeed have tinted windows. CN has never been a company to 'splurge on the extra's' .
ever notice how annoying the sun can be when its coming in the side window? either burning your arm off, or right in your eye where the sun shade doesnt cover. My guess is the tint is an added comfort for crews
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Posted by UPTRAIN on Monday, July 18, 2005 10:41 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by dharmon

QUOTE: Originally posted by kenbowes

As long as all you live in a country that holds gun ownership as sacred



I'm NRA and I vote.

Dan


Guns don't kill people, husbands who come home early do! -Larry the Cable Guy GIT-R-DONE!

My [2c]...Guns: More than fun...they're freedom.

Pump

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 18, 2005 10:47 PM
The sad truth is, the dark windows and air-conditioning isn't for the crews benefit.
The new A/C engines have a huge amount of computers and sensors onboard.
If allowed to overheat reliability and fuel economy would suffer. Where I work on the UP you NEVER saw an air-conditioned switch engine. Then come the remote control locomotives (RCL's). Virutally the entire fleet of them is now air-conditioned. All the better to cool off the computer that's doing my job.

Of course, I'm not bitter...
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Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 5:44 AM
The sad truth is the A/C is for the crew...Santa Fe was putting A/C on their locomotive long before computers....

The "computer" for locomotives are located in the nose compartment, in a rack in front of the engineer’s seat, and in the electrical cabinet on the rear wall.

If you have ever been inside an AC4400 or a SD70Mac, with the front nose door and the middle crew compartment door closed, you quickly realize it can get well over 100 degrees in the nose...the A/C has nothing to do with the computers, (really fault code chips, very much like what has been used in the automotive world for decades) but for the crew.

If the A/C was for the computers, they would run ducts to the electrical cabinet and the nose compartment, both of which have none.

What do you guys think happens when the prime mover's auto start/stop kicks in and the unit shuts down for fuel savings?

It gets hotter than blue blazes in the cabs all the time.

I have been in some that were so hot you couldn’t touch anything metal, or sit in the seats until the A/C had been run for a good while.

Quentin, the cabs are insulated both for comfort, and sound.

There is a FRA max decibel rating for the cab, both at idle and full throttle.

Some of EMDs locomotives have the cab isolated from the rest of the body and frame to reduce both noise and vibration.

The windows are tinted to reduce both the glare, and the heat in the cab.
Note on UPs leased units from CEFX, the cab roofs are painted white?
This too helps reduce the heat transfer from sunlight.

The windows are not bullet proof, but bullet resistant, and meet the FRA glazing strength requirements and the FRA shatter resistant requirements.

CSXengineer already told you that small arms fire wont come through, but a medium to large caliber rifle can punch a hole in the windows right quick.

The tint helps in this also.

Oh, and the tint helps keep people on the outside from seeing the engineer use the mirror to fix his hair!

Wabash, still got that mirror?[:D]

Ed

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Posted by Mookie on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:25 AM
Ok - to add to the mirror rumor - do the cabs have any kind of sun visors? I use mine constantly and can't imagine driving without it.... especially since it has a mirror on the reverse side!

Mook

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Posted by edblysard on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 6:41 AM
Yes on the visor, no on the mirror...
although some locomotives do come with cup holders.
Ed[8D]

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Posted by Modelcar on Tuesday, July 19, 2005 8:06 AM
....All good stuff Ed....You mention of the SF installing A/C way back when...I can mention that back in '69 to '71 when I was doing some test work in the Arizona desert...near Kingman...I did notice the SF units going by seemed to have an A/C unit installed on the engine...Believe some were on the roof.....I can't imagaine how hot it must have been without them winding up those grades in the desert there...But then on the other hand, think back when it was steam and that massive firebox and steam boiler right next to the operating fellows...That must have been a scorcher.

Quentin

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