Wisconsin and Southern - Rockford ?

[nanaimo73]

The September 2004 issue of CTC Board Magazine had this on page 16-
Wisconsin & Southern will purchase 7.33 miles of track in Rockford, IL., from the Iowa, Chicago and Eastern. Wisconsin & Southern has leased 6.85 miles of the track for the past 18 years and is the primary user of it.

I have been trying to figure this out for 11 months and still can't get what they meant. The BNSF map shows a line running several miles NE from Rockford as being former C&NW now UP. And WSOR's map doesn't include Rockford and 18 years ago they only had the 147 miles they started with.Anyone have a guess ?
Dale

[Randy Stahl]

There is also an ex Milw line coming north from Davis Jct. to Janesville.

[CShaveRR]

That nee-MILW line (north of Rockford, toward Janesville) would be the one.

The UP line is our Belvidere Subdivision, which goes as far as Rockford. It once extended as far as Freeport, which was as close as the old Galena Division ever got to Galena (The Galena Division was still called that when I hired out.)

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

That nee-MILW line (north of Rockford, toward Janesville) would be the one.

The UP line is our Belvidere Subdivision, which goes as far as Rockford. It once extended as far as Freeport, which was as close as the old Galena Division ever got to Galena (The Galena Division was still called that when I hired out.)

And from Janesville it extended to the lakefront in Racine to serve the J.I. Case Co. (traces of it can be seen in Burlington where it crossed the then SOO (now CN) tracks, and a part of it still exists extending west from Sturdevant to Kansasville.

There are some UP tracks somewhere in Rockford (street running) that are the remnants of the line that ran from the lakefront in Kenosha all the way to Rockford via Harvard (the old K.D. Subdivision), abandoned west of Bain in 1941.

[nanaimo73]

Some maps I have seen show a line about 7 miles long running north of Rockford on the east side of the Rock River. I believe this was a former interurban line up to Janesville.

[fuzzybroken]

Looks to me like CTC Board got their cities wrong... WSOR did purchase the Janesville, WI terminal trackage and yard from ICE, which was not included in the initial sale to whatever WSOR/Wisconsin & Calumet predecessor originally purchased it from Milwaukee Road. WSOR has been the major operator of the trackage for years, all ICE did was use the trackage for interchanging cars to the WSOR (and maybe UP), and serving Freedom Plastics.

As a result of the ownership change, one or both of the railroads put up this sign:

(From www.fuzzyworld3.com/rt02.html )

-Mark
www.fuzzyworld3.com

[Anonymous]

Nanaimo,
The line going up the east side of the Rock River in Rockford was C&NW. At one time it continued NE and E to Kenosha. The seven mile segment served/serves industries in Loves Park and North Park. One of the industries is the Warner Lambert Chiclets/Trident Gum plant.

Zardoz,
The Milw line east from Janesville to Rondout and Chicago crossed its line from Beloit to Sturtevant/Racine at Clinton, WI.

CShaveRR,
Perhaps you're aware that the Northwestern's Galena & Chicago Union line met up with the IC's Charter line at Freeport. Traffic interchanged there. Later, the IC built its own line into Chicago. It was predicted in the early days that Galena would grow into "Metropolis".

[rvos1979]

QUOTE: Originally posted by tomtrain
[Zardoz,
The Milw line east from Janesville to Rondout and Chicago crossed its line from Beloit to Sturtevant/Racine at Clinton, WI.

Correction:

The Milw (now WSOR) line from Janesville to Fox Lake, Rondout and Chicago crossed the old Racine and Southwestern (Milw line from Racine thru Burlington to Beloit and points west) at Bardwell, near Darien, WI. Clinton is where the R&SW crossed the CNW line from Janesville to Harvard, IL.

the R&SW is gone from Kansasville to Elkhorn, save for about two miles in Burlington to serve industries, and from Bardwell to Clinton.

Randy

[zardoz]

Clinton Jct. was where the CNW (Chicago to Madison) crossed the Milwaukee Road, at least back in the 70's (according to my old employee timetable).

[jeaton]

A bit off topic, but to add a little to Randy's comments on the Racine and Southwestern, later Milwaukee Road, it is the still active segment from Elkhorn to Bardwell, WI that runs through our town of Delavan.

My 1923 valuation maps show the line crossing the Chicago-Milwaukee main at "Corliss" which we now know as Sturdevant, WI. (Got interrupted here). The wyes are still in place. The WI DOT map shows CP rail still operating from Sturdevant to Union Grove and out of service from that point to Burlington. I think that the rails are still in place as far as Burlington. The rails were still in place between Burlington and Elkhorn as late as about ten years ago. At least part of the ROW east of Elkhorn is now trail.

WSOR operates track between Elkhorn and Bardwell Jct (near Darien) connecting there to the WSOR Janesville-Fox Lake WSOR line which goes on to Chicago via trackage rights.

The Line between Bardwell and Clinton is abandoned and now a trail. The segment one to two miles west of Bardwell is right next to I-43 and has a pretty good westbound grade. I would guess at least 2%.

The line from Clinton to Beloit is now C&NW (UP), probably picked up to get C&NW access to Joliet. Probably not much going on there anymore, but on rare occasions I have seen trains of about 25 grain cars on the line.

At Beloit, the line connected with the Davis Jct to Janesville line. (That is the line that is the original subject of this post.) After the MILW-SOO merger the SOO retained that segment which was later wound up in the hands of ICE. As indicated the segment sold to WSOR would be on the North end in Janesville, rather than in Rockford. As far as I know the ICE retains ownership between Davis Jct and just south of Janesville. Recently, I saw ICE power with a few cars ready to head south from Janesville. The crew had parked next to a convenience store to get "breakfast" (donuts, they must be expolicemen) and told me that they come up Monday, Wednesday and Friday and return the following mornings.

I digress. I don't know for sure, but the Milwaukee may have had trains continue on from Beloit, using the Janesville-Davis Jct line between Beloit and Rockton, IL. At Rockton there was a line branching off running through Freeport to Kettredge, IL which was (is?) a station on the old Milwaukee's Chicago-Omaha Line somewhat East of Savanna, IL.

This is speculation on my part, but it seems possible the traffic from Racine, and Sturdevant and north going west beyond Savanah may have been routed along that line, rather than though Chicago. That would be consistant with the way I have seen the MILW operate in other areas, where a "through" train would haul some pretty good drags, making good sized set outs and pick ups at major points for further handling by switrch jobs or patrols (way freights). In my minds eye, I see steam or early diesel really leaning into it to pull tonnage up over the ridge out of Bardswell.

Jay

[Noah Hofrichter]

Mark nailed it, really this was in Janesville WI. The WSOR purchased the roundhouse/yard trackage from the ICE. It was a little bit of an issue for a while if I remember right, the ICE forgot to give notice to their employees or something, and there was a little fuss about it. It ended up in the sale being delayed for a short time, but it eventually went through.

Noah

[nanaimo73]

Thanks Mark and everyone else. It makes sense now.
Jay, the line to Kittredge from Racine was known as the Southwestern. The Dec 1992 Trains has an article about this line. West of Rockton was torn up in 1978.

[jeaton]

Dale

Thanks for the reference. I don't have that issue, but will have a chance to look at it Friday at the NU Transportation Library.

Jay

[Soo2610]

Thanks for the history lesson! Have often wondered whose tracks those were when I crossed them in Springfield on the way up to East Troy. They were abandoned for many years before the rails were finally torn up and the right of way was converted into a trail. Last time I was through there the old freight station was still standing in Springfield next to highway 120.

[fuzzybroken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

My 1923 valuation maps show the line crossing the Chicago-Milwaukee main at "Corliss" which we now know as Sturdevant, WI. (Got interrupted here). The wyes are still in place. The WI DOT map shows CP rail still operating from Sturdevant to Union Grove and out of service from that point to Burlington. I think that the rails are still in place as far as Burlington. The rails were still in place between Burlington and Elkhorn as late as about ten years ago. At least part of the ROW east of Elkhorn is now trail.

Jay

Jay,

Good meeting you on Saturday! I was a bit absent-minded as to who exactly you were, but it came to me later in the day. I was a bit dazed by all the stuff that WSOR had out on display... What a great day!!!

Anyways... CP still runs on the R&SW west of Union Grove, as far as Kansasville, there's a co-op west of WIS-75 that still gets service every now and then! I got a picture from a couple winters ago of an IMRL ex-MILW covered hopper out there, with a nice icicle running from the top of the car all the way to the ground! Sadly, the wig-wags that guarded the crossing of WIS-75 were removed recently, but I got a few pics before they disappeared. The crossbucks that replaced them certainly don't have the same charm.

The R&SW west of K-ville has all been pulled up, and the county is working on building yet another bike trail, to connect with the old TMER&L line out of Burlington that is now called the "Seven Waters Trail". I haven't seen much progress lately, at least not the last time I was out there...

-Mark
www.fuzzyworld3.com

[nanaimo73]

Is Metra still going to go to Rockford over the UP from Elgin ?

[jeaton]

Mark

I was relying on the WI DOR Railroad map with a 2004 date so I wasn't sure about the rails east of Burlington. Thanks for the update.

Soo 2610-Haven't been over to Springfield in several years, so I am not sure of the status of the freight station. I seem to recall that a little track and the raod crossing signals were left behind, but I could be wrong on that.

Jay

[Soo2610]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

Mark

I was relying on the WI DOR Railroad map with a 2004 date so I wasn't sure about the rails east of Burlington. Thanks for the update.

Soo 2610-Haven't been over to Springfield in several years, so I am not sure of the status of the freight station. I seem to recall that a little track and the raod crossing signals were left behind, but I could be wrong on that.

Jay

Jay
As of my last trip through there last year, the tracks and crossing gate were gone, the road bed had been turned into a trail and the freight house was still there.

[eolafan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by nanaimo73

Is Metra still going to go to Rockford over the UP from Elgin ?

[V] No, sorry, Metra does not serve Rockford and Rockford has not had passenger service since the old Amtrak "Land O Corn" (Chicago to Dubuque via Rockford) stopped running back in the 1970's. Actually since Rockford is the fourth or fifth largest city in Illinois it would seem to make sense to have passenger service, at least METRA.

[Anonymous]

holy cow i thought i was the only one who'd been to kansasville, WI. i had to take a few loads of fertilizer to the co-op there 2 years ago. i was talking with one of the head guys there and he was cussing the railroad because they were "so unreliable and unpredictable". the co-op wanted only a car or two at a time and the railroad wanted to bring 20 to justify the trip down there.

[MP173]

There was an excellent article in Trains, perhaps it is the 1992 issue referred to earlier in this post that dealt with operating from Savanah to Racine. The story was about winter running and if my memory is correct it was a pretty big train.

ed

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the correction earlier.

There are lots of "plans" for Metra out towards Rockford, but nothing solid that i know of.

http://www.ci.belvidere.il.us/metra.htm
http://www.cityofmarengo.com/comp_plan/11A_0003.PDF

Using the old CNW line would make for a long ride from Rockford though the intermediate towns would like it.
Amtrak did operate the Black Hawk from Dubuque to Chicago on the old IC line during the mid to late 70's.
A better route for Rockford would be the old Milw from Elgin to Genoa, and then the old IC from Genoa to Rockford with a station on the Southeast side around Alpine or Perryville Rds.

[techguy57]

I'm guessing that Rockford isn't too far down the line (excuse the pun) for Metra in terms of additional services. The far outlying suburbs of Chicago (McHenry County, Kane County, and Will County near Joliet have all seen their populations more than double in the past 5 years. Metra is already expanding out to outlying towns like Sugar Grove and adding and renovating stations in Crystal Lake and Woodstock. Rockford is not sounding so far fetched. Some budgeting issues may slow the progress but it is most likely and inevitable decision.

One problem Metra is really facing is the lack of a by-pass/connecting route. In short, for the majority of the service lines riders must take their line from their point of departure into the city and then back out to their final destination. For example if I wanted to go from Joliet to Woodstock, I'd have to ride from Joliet to the loop, walk from either Lasalle St station or Union Station to Olgilve Transportation Center station and catch my connecting train to Woodstock. Approximate route time: 3+ hours. Approximate driving time: 1 hour 30 minutes (depending upon exact location of course.)

The simplest solution would be for Metra to strike a deal with the EJ&E. The "J" already has trackage that would allow for quick and easy connections to Metra service in Waukegan, Barrington, Elgin and Aurora to name a few, but there are still 2 major hurdles. 1) The J's trackage is not double track 2) The J's trackage lacks stations. Still it seems that this is an option that Metra should consider in the future ( I have heard unsubstantiated reports that they in fact are considering this possibility) especially if they do want to add service to Rockford.
Just my opinion though.

tom train- If Metra does run service to Marengo, any idea if it is considering a weekend run to Union?

Mike