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What is the offical reason why railroads dont use cabooses any more

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What is the offical reason why railroads dont use cabooses any more
Posted by railfan619 on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:05 PM
I know some of the reasons why but I kinda figure there are more reasons why they.
Dont one reason might be because it got to much for the railroads to operate them which may or may not be ture. Another reason I think because they wanted to elminante the postion of the conductor.
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Posted by arbfbe on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:11 PM
The official line from the railroad companies is they cost money that could be better spent elsewhere, they did not measurabley add to the safety of the train operations and they increased the likelihood of injuries to employees riding in them.

Their thoughts, not mine.

Since they are gone, I am relieved there are no live persons at the rear of some of these 8,000'-9,000' trains we are given to handle these days. The slack action must be brutal back there sometimes.
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Posted by BaltACD on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 4:02 PM
Simple reason...Cost and 2 man crews.

The cost of maintaining Cabs, both as a rail car and as a car used for human occupancy were very high. Operationally cabs had to be switched into and out of trains that used yard engine hours and manpower. With today's 9000 foot and longer trains I can only imagine the effects of slack action are at the rear of a 'whip' that long.

The down side of not having a cab presents itself every time a train has and undesired emergency application of the brakes....without personnel on the cab, the train can only be inspected from one direction....by the time the conductor walks 18000 feet on main track ballast, in the middle of the night, with a brakemans lantern in pouring rain or wind driven snow storm 2 or 3 hours or more can elapse....all the while that track, be it single main or one of multiple tracks is totally idled. Train inspection from both ends minimized the length of time trains were stopped by minor mechanical malfunction.

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Posted by coborn35 on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 4:27 PM
uhhh................. They still have conductors, its just that they do all the switching instead of the fireman/brakeman.

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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 4:31 PM
I seem to recall seeing a figure some years back that a standard over-the-road crummy cost in the neighborhood of $100,000 - and that was probably 1980s dollars - a lot of investment for a specialized piece of rolling stock. Also sited by the the railroads was the number of extra moves that cutting a caboose on and off of locals during switching required...
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Posted by selector on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 4:44 PM
In order to make a decent profit, and to keep SOME people working, they looked for any excuse to cut either non-paying tonnage or labour. Diesels don't have tenders, so they were not an issue. Crew whose contributions to efficiency were dubious were an item of attention, mainly due to increased wages and safety concerns, as suggested above. An elegant, if cold-hearted, solution could be achieved by relieving the train of one item; the caboose. Poof: no more wages, no more paid benefits, no more pension liability (have we come across that recently, say in the auto industry?), no more fuel waste hauling 14 tons at the rear of lenghtening trains, and no more maintenance/replacement costs for the cabooses. Remember, there was one at the end of EACH train, so their costs were not negligible.
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Posted by csxengineer98 on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 5:40 PM
2 main resons... technology...and cost cutting...
csx engineer
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Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 28, 2005 9:53 PM
ALSO...... A lot of personal injuries from slack action... equates to $$$$$$$$$$$$.

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:02 AM
BNSF has a caboose in Corona California, on the Riverside line. I've seen it sitting on a siding in an industrial area just SE of the Interstate 15/91 Freeway interchange. Last Tuesday morning (6/21) it had been moved out on an industrial lead while the local job switched covered hoppers. Has anybody else seen it or know what it's used for?
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Posted by Jack_S on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 1:12 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by JBRogers

BNSF has a caboose in Corona California, on the Riverside line. I've seen it sitting on a siding in an industrial area just SE of the Interstate 15/91 Freeway interchange. Last Tuesday morning (6/21) it had been moved out on an industrial lead while the local job switched covered hoppers. Has anybody else seen it or know what it's used for?


I have seen a BNSF caboose in operation on a short mixed freight that, I think, services local industry in the Anaheim/Orange/Santa Ana area. I have seen it go thru the Fullerton station in both directions at different times. The last time the train was backing east thru the station with two men leaning on the rail at the rear of the caboose.

Jack
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Posted by daveklepper on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:50 AM
Cabbooses are stiill used in specialized applications, especially where backup moves are frequent and where crew size is larger than normal.
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Posted by adrianspeeder on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:09 AM
Like said above... Show me the money!

Adrianspeeder

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Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 7:45 AM
EOTD!
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Posted by chad thomas on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 9:46 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by JBRogers

BNSF has a caboose in Corona California, on the Riverside line. I've seen it sitting on a siding in an industrial area just SE of the Interstate 15/91 Freeway interchange. Last Tuesday morning (6/21) it had been moved out on an industrial lead while the local job switched covered hoppers. Has anybody else seen it or know what it's used for?


Don't they use a caboose on the San Jacinto branch?
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Posted by coborn35 on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 10:06 AM
There was a post a while back that showed some cabooses still in action.

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Posted by jchnhtfd on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:40 PM
You will still see the odd caboose on some locals. It provides a safe place for a brakeman to ride at the end of the train, and can save a lot of time if there is a lot of switching to be done (remember: if you move a train into a siding, someone has to throw the switch for the move, then line in back, then when you want to come out, you have to throw the switch again for the move, and then line it back -- all of which takes a lot of walking if you don't have a man at both ends of the train!). This type of move tends to have two brakemen, or one brakeman plus the conductor and engineer, rather than just a two man crew.

Otherwise, with EOTDs on a through (not swtiching) train, you really don't need a man back there, especially if the EOTD is smart (has a way to report the end of pipe pressure and can dump the air by remote control). The conductor is still part of the two man crew (conductor and engineer). The positions which got lost were the brakemen.
Jamie
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Posted by spbed on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:45 PM
Big money saver. You really did not know that? [:o)][:)]

Originally posted by railfan619
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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Posted by coborn35 on Thursday, June 30, 2005 4:47 PM
I found this on the AAR website:

Why don't railroads use cabooses anymore?


Railroads simply made them better!

The "little red caboose" at the end of freight trains had been there so long, most people think they are still there. But, like the steam locomotive of sixty years ago, the caboose has become a thing of the past.

The caboose was heading towards obsolescence for many years, as increasing railroad automation took over more and more of the functions formerly performed by the crew members who rode cabooses. For instance, the caboose is no longer needed as an office for the conductor, since the conductor’s paperwork has been greatly reduced by computerization. It is no longer necessary for crew members to be stationed in the caboose to serve as lookouts for worn or dragging equipment, wheel malfunctions or other operational problems. Such problems, which are far rarer now than they once were, can quickly be detected by various kinds of sensors stationed along the tracks and attached to the end of the train. Modern switching, signaling and communication systems have reduced the need for crew to be at the rear of the train to perform manual switching of tracks, signaling with flags and other such functions.

Things changed in 1982. The major railroads negotiated many issues involving modernization with the transportation unions, and the caboose was let loose from the rest of the freight train at that time. They concluded that cabooses "may be eliminated in each class of [freight train] service without undermining safety and operational considerations." The Board further expressed the belief that "the elimination of cabooses should be an on-going national program," negotiated locally.

A subsequent labor agreement negotiated in 1985 allowed for total elimination of cabooses from unit-type trains (i.e. trains carrying a single commodity, such a coal or grain), and from intermodal-type trains (such as "piggyback" trains or double-stack container trains). These elimination’s did not count towards the 1982 agreement’s limit for through-freights. The caboose provisions of the 1982 and 1985 labor agreements remain in effect today.

In the spring of 1986, the Nebraska state legislature repealed a law that mandated the use of cabooses on certain trains operating in and through that state. Not too long thereafter, Oregon, Montana and Virginia abolished their laws mandating cabooses, leaving no states in the nation with such statutes on the books. During the 1980s, rail labor unions, claiming safety concerns, attempted to get caboose laws passed in those states that did not already have them. Though bills were introduced in most state legislatures, all these bills eventually failed.

Did it cost a lot to operate a caboose?

Yes. Running cabooses brought about extra costs for such items as car switching, repairs, interior heating and the additional diesel fuel that the locomotive must burn to pull the caboose. There are also capital costs, costs that come from merely owning cabooses, since a railroads caboose fleet ties up thousands or millions of dollars that could otherwise be put into railroad improvements or some other productive use. Several years ago the railroads estimated that gross savings in operating costs alone from phasing out cabooses would come to about $400 million a year. Since the end of train monitoring devices that are now used on trains would cost about half as much to operate, there would be a net savings in operating costs of about $200 million annually.

Cutting needless costs frees up funds that can be invested in improvements to provide better service for railroad customers and the North American consumer, and to help insure a brighter future for the rail industry.

What is at the end of a cabooseless train?

Trains are now equipped battery powered end of train monitoring devices. These devices fit over the coupler of the last car, and monitor the air-brake pressure and the speed at which the end of the train is moving. They then transmit this information to the locomotive crew. The devices also have a marker light to improve the train’s visibility at night.

How long have cabooses been around?

The caboose probably first appeared on U.S. railroads in the 1850s, although it was little more than a rolling hut at the time. The word "caboose" probably came from the Dutch kambuis, meaning "cabin house" or "ship’s galley." The word was used in nautical language in English before it was introduced into railroading. Over the years, the caboose grew in size and in function. It became an office and a "home away from home" where crews could work, cook, eat and sleep. From the caboose’s cupola, crews could watch the train ahead to see that everything was working smoothly; and they could signal to the engineer up front in the locomotive if anything went wrong.

At various times, the caboose has been given the names of conductor’s car, cabin car, accommodation car, van car and way car. In the more informal lingo of the train crews, it has been known as a crummy, a doghouse, a bird cage, a bone breaker, a snake wagon, a cigar box, a hearse, and a library.

Here are the web sites of some historical societies and other organizations concerned with remembering the legacy of the proud caboose:

Union Pacific: A Brief History of the Caboose


American Railway Caboose Historical Educational Society, Inc.


Conrail Cabooses


Penn Central Cabooses


Catawissa Railroad Company


The Caboose Hobbies

Mechanical Department  "No no that's fine shove that 20 pound set all around the yard... those shoes aren't hell and a half to change..."

The Missabe Road: Safety First

 

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Posted by UPJohn on Thursday, June 30, 2005 5:31 PM
Cost.......... Everyone wants more money!!!!!!!!! and new improvements in technology!

John
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 1, 2005 5:53 PM
coborn,

Thanks for posting that, I enjoyed reading it.

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