Originally posted by easter Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 2:24 PM Pan Am is on their 4th or so reincarnation. They are based right here in Portsmouth NH. How they have continued to survive in this age of high jet fuel prices is a mystery to me. Their route system changes constantly from what I hear. Guilford Transportation bought the rights to the Pan Am logo several years back. They busted the union and fired the pilots...replaced them with non union. Typical GTI labor tactics. Why GTI is painting the "blue ball" on box cars is unknown. I didn't think they got as far away as GA... Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, June 17, 2005 2:41 PM Skyrader, very imformative. Thank you! Easter Reply Edit dharmon Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Bottom Left Corner, USA 3,420 posts Posted by dharmon on Friday, June 17, 2005 4:38 PM The GRS (ex-MEC) Waterville shops have been repainting the Pan Am logo on B&M and MEC reporting mark cars. As Skyraider mentioned the holding company for GRS also acquired Pan Am which is still flying regional, charter and cargo if I understand it correctly. In a similiar move with the BM/MEC/ST labor dispute back in the 80s, they have been odds with the pilots union and are reorganizing names and contracts to get the advantage over the pilots. My understanding is the ailine will be Boston and Maine Airways or something like that on paper at least. Whether the Pan Am logos on the freight cars is part of this move, or some name recognition exercizing of the trademark isn't clear, and GRS doesn't make anything public it doesn't need to. Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 9:23 AM You're correct dhharmon. Boston and Maine Airlines is the small feeder operation Guilford operates. It is non union and flies CASA 212's to a few destinations here in the northeast. GTI is moving the Pan Am operation to the B&M certificate allowing them to null and void labor agreements and bust the Pan Am pilots union. Just an example of how pleasant GTI is to work for...they fired a Pan Am pilot for refusing to fly an assignment he was illegal to accept under the FAR's. He sued them and won. Probably the luckiest guy on the seniority list. Reply Edit Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 11:34 AM Hey, send one of those beautiful cars our way. I love the Pan Am logo--it's a classic. allen (7 mi. north of Chicago Union Station; 88 miles east of Rochelle RR Park). Reply Edit eastside Member sinceMarch 2001 From: New York City 805 posts Posted by eastside on Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:02 PM A good start. Someday, I wi***hey'd buy the old PanAm building and restore the PanAm name. MetLife is a fine company but its name doesn't have the same ring of faraway places: http://www.marginalsoftware.com/Temp/PanAm%20Building.htm Reply METRO Member sinceOctober 2003 From: Milwaukee & Toronto 929 posts Posted by METRO on Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:16 PM Next thing you know there will be Eastern trains too haha. Good to see the old Pan back in business though. Now if CSX would just repaint their NYC equipment back in lightning stripes and cigar bands... ~METRO Reply fuzzybroken Member sinceOctober 2002 From: Milwaukee, WI, US 1,384 posts Posted by fuzzybroken on Saturday, June 18, 2005 2:37 PM We had one of those come thru Wisconsin on the WSOR. One of the replies on the WSOR list was from someone who had done some work for Guilford. He didn't have anything glowing to say about them! -Mark www.fuzzyworld3.com -Fuzzy Fuzzy World 3 Reply Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:47 PM No labour laws over there huh? Andrew Reply fuzzybroken Member sinceOctober 2002 From: Milwaukee, WI, US 1,384 posts Posted by fuzzybroken on Saturday, June 18, 2005 4:24 PM Oh, plenty of labor laws, but plenty of ways to get around them too! -Mark www.fuzzyworld3.com and proud to be a Teamster... except in election years...[;)] -Fuzzy Fuzzy World 3 Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, June 18, 2005 6:22 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by eastside A good start. Someday, I wi***hey'd buy the old PanAm building and restore the PanAm name. MetLife is a fine company but its name doesn't have the same ring of faraway places: http://www.marginalsoftware.com/Temp/PanAm%20Building.htm Nice pix eastside. That building was the symbol of an empire. Pan Am was THE place to be as an airline pilot back in the 50's and 60's. A true worldwide operation. Their major mistake was to not see the need for a domestic system. They were the victims of bad luck as well..Lockerbie is one example that comes to mind. I recall many years ago they would provide helicopter shuttle service from Manhattan to JFK. The helicopters would use the heliport on top of the Pan Am building. A helicopter had a gear collapse while landing there and the rotor blades separated and fell to the street below killing several people. Reply Edit Junctionfan Member sinceFebruary 2004 From: St.Catharines, Ontario 3,770 posts Posted by Junctionfan on Saturday, June 18, 2005 7:43 PM In that case there are too many loop-holes. I thought Canada was pretty bad for loop-holes when it comes to labour laws but that is a little rediculous that Guilford owners could get away with that. Although, I have yet to see the government of Canada address the closing down of a Wal-Mart in Quebec simply because the workers wanted to unionize. Andrew Reply eastside Member sinceMarch 2001 From: New York City 805 posts Posted by eastside on Saturday, June 18, 2005 10:36 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by skyraider0609 Nice pix eastside. That building was the symbol of an empire. Thanks. I did take both. BTW, the building in front of the MetLife building was called the New York Central Building (now, the Helmsley Building). It was once the CHQ of the New York Central RR. http://www.art.com/asp/sp-asp/_/pd--10044330/New_York_Central_Building.htm Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, June 19, 2005 10:22 PM To skyraider0609: My best recollection from the 60's (?) was that TWA was allowed both domestic and international routes. PanAm requested the same from the government but was always denied the same right as TWA. At the time, TWA thrived but PanAM shriveled. Then AAL, UAL and others gained rights to international routes and bypassed the need for transfers to PanAM since PanAm couldn't make connections to their own domestic airline system. The original PanAM is long gone. Somebody bought the name and started a airline using the name. However, it has nothing to do with the original. Ah. Our government at work! Reply Edit spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Monday, June 20, 2005 6:33 AM After some thought I guess Guilford is advertising Pan Am as they are going to restart up the airline. [:o)][:p] Originally posted by easter [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply CSSHEGEWISCH Member sinceMarch 2016 From: Burbank IL (near Clearing) 13,540 posts Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:47 PM Both the Pan American and Braniff names, among others, have changed hands several times, with most of the succeeding carriers being less than a stellar success. As an example of a bad business decision, Pan Am eventually did acquire a domestic network through merger with National Airlines several years prior to de-regulation. Unfortunately, National was primarily a north-south carrier on the East Coast and was of little help in feeding into Pan Am's international network. The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul Reply dharmon Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Bottom Left Corner, USA 3,420 posts Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:11 PM Here's a bit more From http://www.panamair.org/ <quote> The Lockerbie crash hurt an airline already in trouble. Passengers were scarce, Pan Am was flying empty planes. Pan Am found itself unable to pay its employees. The only option was sell what it still had. Pacific routes were sold to United Airlines, Atlantic routes were sold to Delta and American Airlines. Finally the whole airline was sold to Delta. Pan Am's Worldport at JFK airport in New York was created into the Delta Flight Center after the sale of Pan American World Airways to Delta. Pan Am created a plan for a ‘Restructered Pan Am” with routes in the Caribbean and South American but after funds were depleted the plan ceased. September 1996 two, an Airbus 300 named Clipper Fairwind reintroduced scheduled service from Miami to new York. Within the year Pan Am added Santo Domingo, San Juan and Chicago destinations using five jets. Pan Am merged with Carnival Airlines which resulted in service and quality deterioration. In 1998 the second Pan Am declared bankruptcy and the remains of Pan Am were sold to Guilford Transportation <quote> This is the "new" Pan Am site...go to the very bottom of the page...and it says..Boston and Maine Airways.... http://www.flypanam.com/ Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:19 PM Let's see if I get this straight. The Pan Am pilots will be represented by the BLE of B&M. The Guilford enginemen will be represented by the Flight Attendant's union. The B&M conductors are represented by the Pilot's union. Who represents Hooter's (airline that is?) Mitch Reply Edit CSSHEGEWISCH Member sinceMarch 2016 From: Burbank IL (near Clearing) 13,540 posts Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:27 PM Hooters Air is a glorified charter operation. I don't know offhand the name of the actual operator of the aircraft. The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul Reply dharmon Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Bottom Left Corner, USA 3,420 posts Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:34 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark Who represents Hooter's (airline that is?) Mitch If it must be done....I'm sure I can do it.....Gabe, I might need a lawyer too.... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:41 PM Just a FYI........Hooters Air aircraft are easily spotted by their unusual double radome configuration....... Reply Edit cpbloom Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Still on the other side of the tracks. 397 posts Posted by cpbloom on Friday, June 24, 2005 4:02 AM I work at an air transport company at Rickenbacker (LCK) in Columbus OH. Some people at my job were quite surprised to see a Pan-Am jet parked at the terminal this afternoon. They didn't believe it was really Pan-Am and that's when I remembered this topic. I think they just started operations at LCK so now we have Hooters and Guilford... OOPS, I mean Pan-Am. [:o)][:p] Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
QUOTE: Originally posted by eastside A good start. Someday, I wi***hey'd buy the old PanAm building and restore the PanAm name. MetLife is a fine company but its name doesn't have the same ring of faraway places: http://www.marginalsoftware.com/Temp/PanAm%20Building.htm
QUOTE: Originally posted by skyraider0609 Nice pix eastside. That building was the symbol of an empire.
Originally posted by easter [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply CSSHEGEWISCH Member sinceMarch 2016 From: Burbank IL (near Clearing) 13,540 posts Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:47 PM Both the Pan American and Braniff names, among others, have changed hands several times, with most of the succeeding carriers being less than a stellar success. As an example of a bad business decision, Pan Am eventually did acquire a domestic network through merger with National Airlines several years prior to de-regulation. Unfortunately, National was primarily a north-south carrier on the East Coast and was of little help in feeding into Pan Am's international network. The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul Reply dharmon Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Bottom Left Corner, USA 3,420 posts Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 1:11 PM Here's a bit more From http://www.panamair.org/ <quote> The Lockerbie crash hurt an airline already in trouble. Passengers were scarce, Pan Am was flying empty planes. Pan Am found itself unable to pay its employees. The only option was sell what it still had. Pacific routes were sold to United Airlines, Atlantic routes were sold to Delta and American Airlines. Finally the whole airline was sold to Delta. Pan Am's Worldport at JFK airport in New York was created into the Delta Flight Center after the sale of Pan American World Airways to Delta. Pan Am created a plan for a ‘Restructered Pan Am” with routes in the Caribbean and South American but after funds were depleted the plan ceased. September 1996 two, an Airbus 300 named Clipper Fairwind reintroduced scheduled service from Miami to new York. Within the year Pan Am added Santo Domingo, San Juan and Chicago destinations using five jets. Pan Am merged with Carnival Airlines which resulted in service and quality deterioration. In 1998 the second Pan Am declared bankruptcy and the remains of Pan Am were sold to Guilford Transportation <quote> This is the "new" Pan Am site...go to the very bottom of the page...and it says..Boston and Maine Airways.... http://www.flypanam.com/ Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:19 PM Let's see if I get this straight. The Pan Am pilots will be represented by the BLE of B&M. The Guilford enginemen will be represented by the Flight Attendant's union. The B&M conductors are represented by the Pilot's union. Who represents Hooter's (airline that is?) Mitch Reply Edit CSSHEGEWISCH Member sinceMarch 2016 From: Burbank IL (near Clearing) 13,540 posts Posted by CSSHEGEWISCH on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:27 PM Hooters Air is a glorified charter operation. I don't know offhand the name of the actual operator of the aircraft. The daily commute is part of everyday life but I get two rides a day out of it. Paul Reply dharmon Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Bottom Left Corner, USA 3,420 posts Posted by dharmon on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 2:34 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark Who represents Hooter's (airline that is?) Mitch If it must be done....I'm sure I can do it.....Gabe, I might need a lawyer too.... Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 7:41 PM Just a FYI........Hooters Air aircraft are easily spotted by their unusual double radome configuration....... Reply Edit cpbloom Member sinceAugust 2003 From: Still on the other side of the tracks. 397 posts Posted by cpbloom on Friday, June 24, 2005 4:02 AM I work at an air transport company at Rickenbacker (LCK) in Columbus OH. Some people at my job were quite surprised to see a Pan-Am jet parked at the terminal this afternoon. They didn't believe it was really Pan-Am and that's when I remembered this topic. I think they just started operations at LCK so now we have Hooters and Guilford... OOPS, I mean Pan-Am. [:o)][:p] Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by artmark Who represents Hooter's (airline that is?) Mitch
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