North East Corridor and VIA Rail

[Junctionfan]

I don't really know how to start this topic or what title to use so here I go.

I'm not sure if it is possible but what about extending at some point, the NEC to Montreal and allowing VIA to lease the line to run trains from Montreal to New York, Boston and other major cities along the line as to reduce Amtrak's operation cost and accumulate moneys from leasing as they must already from SEPTA, Metro-North, NJ Transit, MARC and MBTA.

Since Montreal Station is anti-diesel hence VIAs must back into the station, it follows reasoning that electrification would be welcomed hence perhaps at some point in time, the demand for the Acela to run close to the Canadian boarder if not actually to Montreal station. It also might spark the possibility the VIA may purchase electric high-speed equipment for use of the NEC if an agreement could be reached and the demand supported such an investment.

What are peoples thoughts about this and any brain-storming/ planning on what might make this plan possible within the next 10 to 20 years.

Let the discussion begin.....[:)]

[Anonymous]

It would be good to have a hgh speed train from the Northeast Corridor to Montreal. Lets sent the Acela back to Canada and get some new trains for the Northeast Corridor.

[Anonymous]

Who would pay for it? Amtrak is already in deep trouble! They could not afford to take on any more cost (rail, maintenance).

Mass-Trans is always a plus it there is enough traffic justify the cost. Is there enough between NYC & Montreal?

[Junctionfan]

I think Canada should help out in the venture. We should purchase an interest in the corridor particularly between Montreal and the NEC but maybe also start considering linking the Windsor Corridor with the NEC via Buffalo not for the present but a few decades from now.

I think the biggest thing that is holding up anything even in the planning stage is the darn nonsense at customs. There really needs to be some kind of easy but safe access between our countries; it's messing up the flow of the commute.

[andrewjonathon]

It seems like the countryside between Montreal and New York City is too sparsely populated to warrant building a high speed line through it. I also did a search to see how many non-stop flights there are between the two cities. Only a handful of flights came up. Is there really enough traffic between the two cities to warrant the new line or is this a case of 'build it and they will come?'

[Junctionfan]

As the demand of residential development increases and eventually cities will reach capacity, the city workers will wi***o locate near the city or near a mode of transportation that gets them quickly to the city where they work.

I believe it is possible within 15 to 20 years from now, that such an investment would be warrented. I believe if this is something that may be possible based on census statistics of the U.S and Canada, depending on the findings, it may be worth the study and so they must start planning as 15 to 20 years is not that long of time.

My problem is doesn't CN or CP run doublestacks on that line (D&H line I think (CP))?
Isn't there an issue with height clearance with cantenaries?

[jchnhtfd]

Don't I wish... since I live near New York, and half my family lives in Montreal!

There are two principle lines (well, three... sort of... four if you're a real optimist!): the old D&H line down the west side of Lake Champlain, which is now CP Rail, and the old Central Vermont line, now New England Central, through Vermont. You could add the old Rutland (now Vermont Railway) and the Montreal -- Portland (Maine) line.

Population is pretty sparse on any of those lines, so you are looking at end to end traffic, mostly.

Amtrak does run a daily service from New York to Montreal on the CP line (and it's well worth the ride just for the scenery): the Adirondack. However, it's a bit on the slow side, as that line has a good many slow curves -- and slow orders. However, CP is in the process of upgrading the line, and this should help with the speed, at least some. Amtrak also used to run a daily service on the old CV line, the Montrealer, but it died from lack of ridership.

This seems to be catenary day... there would be a very serious problem with clearances if catenary were put up -- and there would be a lot of catenary to put up! The CP line does run double stacks, and is going to run more of them -- ditto the CV line. Further, as I just noted in another post, the capital investment is probably seriously out of proportion to the benefit; backing into the Montreal station is a bit tedious, but one would have to have a lot of traffic involved to justify the cost; eliminating tedium, while desirable, is not particularly profitable until traffic levels rise to the point where the train is in the way!

But it would be nice to have more service... it really would...

[Junctionfan]

Would there be enough room to add two tracks beside the lines leaving the other 1 or two cantenary and passenger train free? Is there enough land that it could be possible to viaduct the lines over the towns or other rail lines?

[jchnhtfd]

Well, no, not really -- at least not on the CP Rail and CV lines. The CP rail line (do ride it if you get the chance!) has a number of sections which are built on (or, occasionaly in!) a rock cliff with Lake Champlain on one side and some pretty steep terrain on the other. Even realignment for higher speed is pretty well out of the question; double tracking would be almost impossible for a good bit of the length. The CV rail line is somewhat less tight -- there are very few places which couldn't, in theory, be double tracked -- but it would be quite a job. There are also some good size bridges involved.

Pretty country, though...

[Junctionfan]

I know in Japan, there was quite a bit of work involved in making the line not only work in terms of land engineering but making it sustain earthquakes.

Are those lines kind of like Japan's in the expensive investment sense but engineering wise possible or are there too many engineering difficulties that could be unsafe to work on?

Or on an whole different but related subject; Is there the land to build a whole new line? Might it be cheaper then trying to make the existing lines work?