Mini Intermodal Yards?

[Junctionfan]

Is there any businesses that have 1 or 2 sidings that get in loaded wellcars and TOFC?

[jeffhergert]

In Jefferson, Iowa there is a company that makes some kind of soy product for export to Japan. This is shipped out in containers. The containers come in empty on flat cars or spine cars, I can't recall any double stack well cars. They have their own container lift vehicle. They unload the container from the car, load the product into the container and reload the container onto the car.
Jeff

[Randy Stahl]

Ashley furniture in Arcadia Wis. loads TOFC cars at thier facility

[Junctionfan]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffhergert

In Jefferson, Iowa there is a company that makes some kind of soy product for export to Japan. This is shipped out in containers. The containers come in empty on flat cars or spine cars, I can't recall any double stack well cars. They have their own container lift vehicle. They unload the container from the car, load the product into the container and reload the container onto the car.
Jeff

That company wouldn't be called Microsoy would it?

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffhergert

In Jefferson, Iowa there is a company that makes some kind of soy product for export to Japan. This is shipped out in containers. The containers come in empty on flat cars or spine cars, I can't recall any double stack well cars. They have their own container lift vehicle. They unload the container from the car, load the product into the container and reload the container onto the car.
Jeff

That company wouldn't be called Microsoy would it?

No that's a company out of Redding, Washington that makes a vegetarian alternative to Windows XP.....[xx(]

[edblysard]

Yup,
Thats them.
It is kinda bland, and dosnt work too well, but if you cover it with mayo, and serve it on rye, it aint too bad!

Ed[:D]

[Junctionfan]

If it performs an illegal operation, it might shut down too.[:D]

[Hugh Jampton]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeffhergert

In Jefferson, Iowa there is a company that makes some kind of soy product for export to Japan. This is shipped out in containers. The containers come in empty on flat cars or spine cars, I can't recall any double stack well cars. They have their own container lift vehicle. They unload the container from the car, load the product into the container and reload the container onto the car.
Jeff

That company wouldn't be called Microsoy would it?

Is that anything like Soylent Green?

[Anonymous]

Its people dont eat It!

[Anonymous]

This would make sence at Wal- Mart distrubution centers that handles hundreds of truck each day. Conrail used to have small staitions with circus style loading. Vermont Railways has piggyback ramps at Rutland and Burlington but i have yet to see a Vermont Railway trailer on Vermont Railway in Vermont.

[miniwyo]

Last week, I saw them loading containers in the Green River yard, took em aobut a half hour to load 2 containers on 1 car, and they had about 15-20 cars there, I wonder if they are done yet :D

[Anonymous]

For some reason, when reading this thread I got this window...

[dharmon]

QUOTE: Originally posted by toyomantrains

For some reason, when reading this thread I got this window...

[:D][:D][bow]

[Overmod]

... and isn't it interesting that in his error window, both choices are grayed out, meaning unavailable as platform choices...

[Anonymous]

dharmon- seriously, I am not worthy of your 'I am not worthy' smileys!
(I like 'em, though!)

I should be bowin' to you. .. I'm just a trouble maker[:D][bow][bow][bow]

[Anonymous]

OK overmod...

[Anonymous]

Well that didn't turn out well- try this one...

[Overmod]

... With, of course, the same box popping up with the OTHER "Click Me!" highlighted whenever you press one...

Keeps blonde VB programmers entertained for hours and hours... ;-}

[Anonymous]

There are some applications where a mini ramp might make sense, but there is a challenge for the RRs.

Lets say that the customer is a receiver of goods, like a WalMart Distrubution Center. Those hundreds of trailers are coming from hundreds of places. At some point or possibly at multiple points, the RR would have to consolidate these many trailers coming from many locations, into one train to get to the customer's ramp.

This get more complicated with the 3 pack or 5 pack cars used these days. If the RR has a 5 pack of car of trailers but only 3 are destined to the customer ramp and two are not, they have to do some rework. Then, once they get the train all sorted out and consolidated, they need a switch job or local job to get it to the customer. The delays and rework from all this would likely mean that it would be higher cost and slower than just using a rail ramp in the region.

The alternative is the customer that ships outbound. You have the same problem in reverse. Can they load a 3-5 pack car / cars / train all for the same destination? If not, again the RR has to take it somewhere, rework it and add parts to trains going to the respective locations = cost and delays.

If a shipper / recvr could initiate or receive a substantial block or full train which goes point to point (all same orgin and destination), then you might be able to make it work (basic units train.) But then you've got to have the volume to justify the lift equipment and you're going to have to pay car-hire on the flats or well cars while they sit on your siding. Car hire on some all purpose well cars runs $100 per day. There again, eating up the saving. Tough issues.
- - Stack

[mudchicken]

You can put them anywhere where you are willing to pay for the mechanical inspection after loading. This is the main reason why you do not see this outside of dedicated publicCOFC/TOFC facilities anymore. (ie-you have to have the volume to pay for the mechanical inspection, the railroads don't tend to donate the manhours)

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

When TOFC was re-invented in the 1950's, there was a tendency to put ramps in a lot of places that didn't really have the traffic to justify it. I seriously doubt that the circus-loading ramp on ATSF at Fort Madison IA loaded that many trailers. The phasing out of circus loading and the hardware related to it (bridge plates, full-length flatcar decks, etc) contributed to the shutdown of many of these ramps. At any rate, those small ramps were the TOFC equivalent of the small-town freight house.

Since most loading requires straddle cranes or other large devices, it takes a high-volume terminal such as Willow Springs to justify the capital expense. I don't see any individual warehouse and distribution operations that would have that kind of volume.

[Anonymous]

Walmart cannot handle the intermodal.

Sorry. Thier current model is a L shaped warehouse one side to take Frozen and Reefer trailers, the other side dry goods and grocery.

The distribution centers usually will need new rail and infrastructure to reach them.

And Kalamah Box lifters will need to be purchased and people trained to operate them. For some reason I cannot stomach a mental image of one of these moving a cargo of breakable stuff. Maybe it is from what I have seen at the piers years ago.

What we CAN do is build a intermodal yard, establish a local Chassis operation and transload the boxes from train to truck and take it to the walmart.

I see no improvement in walmart's ability to absorb 100 new loads a day that is going to slug em.

I see a potential for Walmart to shift everything onto thier own boxes and away from third party motor carriers anyway.

Nah. Walmart will not spend that kind of money, they need to finance the low wages on the already very low prices they have in the stores.

[Anonymous]

grrr....the wal-mart distribution center we have next door is a sore subject

[greyhounds]

QUOTE: Originally posted by HighIron2003ar

Walmart cannot handle the intermodal.

Sorry. Thier current model is a L shaped warehouse one side to take Frozen and Reefer trailers, the other side dry goods and grocery.

The distribution centers usually will need new rail and infrastructure to reach them.

And Kalamah Box lifters will need to be purchased and people trained to operate them. For some reason I cannot stomach a mental image of one of these moving a cargo of breakable stuff. Maybe it is from what I have seen at the piers years ago.

What we CAN do is build a intermodal yard, establish a local Chassis operation and transload the boxes from train to truck and take it to the walmart.

Yes, that's just what the Florida East Coast did at Ft. Pierce, FL to serve a Wal-Mart DC.

They build a new intermodal terminal focused on the DC. It will serve other business, but its focus was Wal-Mart. It's huge step in the right direction. I'd like to see similar at Tomah, WI, etc.

You're not going to put a siding into a Wal-Mart DC, but you can deliver off an intermodal terminal and that DC will provide the volume to support such a terminal.

"Fragile" things can move intermodal. It just isn't a problem. We hauled TV's, bottled and canned beer (can't sell a dented can), fresh fruit that bruised easily (bananas), bottled bourbon, appliances, everything moving UPS, etc. Didn't have much of a problem. We cooked some bananas once, and froze some beer - but that was about it. Just please don't hump it.

The real problem was cigarettes. You know the deal. If you want to make a trailer leak, just load it with cigarettes. They'll claim water damage every time. Even in a drought. Everybody on the dock gets free smokes on the carrier.

[broncoman]

Aren't there times when traffic becomes so prohibitive that dealing with the 3/5 car spine issues isn't that bad compared with the delays of truck traffic going from intermodal facility to D.C. Its probably going to be really interesting in many places in the next couple of years with regards to it being easier to move things via rail as opposed to truck. I would think the port of oakland is going to be one of these experiments.
Does anyone know how the Wal-mart D.C in the Central Valley CA (can't remember exactly what town) is fed by? UP, BNSF?

Thanks
Dave

[mudchicken]

QUOTE: Originally posted by broncoman

Aren't there times when traffic becomes so prohibitive that dealing with the 3/5 car spine issues isn't that bad compared with the delays of truck traffic going from intermodal facility to D.C. Its probably going to be really interesting in many places in the next couple of years with regards to it being easier to move things via rail as opposed to truck. I would think the port of oakland is going to be one of these experiments.
Does anyone know how the Wal-mart D.C in the Central Valley CA (can't remember exactly what town) is fed by? UP, BNSF?

Thanks
Dave

Porterville, CA .......RailAmerica SanJoaquin Valley RR (former ATSF line, ex SP nearby)

[ericsp]

QUOTE: Originally posted by mudchicken

QUOTE: Originally posted by broncoman

Aren't there times when traffic becomes so prohibitive that dealing with the 3/5 car spine issues isn't that bad compared with the delays of truck traffic going from intermodal facility to D.C. Its probably going to be really interesting in many places in the next couple of years with regards to it being easier to move things via rail as opposed to truck. I would think the port of oakland is going to be one of these experiments.
Does anyone know how the Wal-mart D.C in the Central Valley CA (can't remember exactly what town) is fed by? UP, BNSF?

Thanks
Dave

Porterville, CA .......RailAmerica SanJoaquin Valley RR (former ATSF line, ex SP nearby)

Actually, it is next to the ex-SP. The ex-ATSF through Porterville has been removed (from s/o Lindsay to Ultra). There is no spur going into the center.

The old ATSF branchlines through the San Joaquin Valley have been decimated. The only remaining portions are from Exeter to Lindsay, Ducor to Ultra, Visalia to Loma, and a branch from the BNSF main in Fresno to eastern Fresno (SP used trackage rights on this for part of its Clovis Branch), all SJVR; there is also a section from the BNSF yard in Fresno to an A&K Railroad Materials yard in Fresno and the Oakdale Branch.

[Anonymous]

Here in Erie we have a siding that feeds a local industry. Erie Foods Intl. We ship to Japan, Aust, Russia and India. We also receive from same. In late seventys up to 85 we used to load/unload containers and boxcars. They would load containers on flatcar with doors to the center, with a 12 foot space between them. We would run a ten foot aluminum ramp out to car then drive forktruck with pallets out to center. Usually a 20 footer would have 800 55lb. bags of dry milk product onthem. A crew of 5 guys could unload in about 2 hours. Then we would reload with soy product for Japan or wherever. Would have 4-5 cars on thesiding. We spotted the cars with a Ford tractor. We used to hate to unload boxcars. They were usually loaded with 100 lb burlap bags from Russia. Made for a hot, itchy day. Then they switched to running the containers out by truck from Chicago yards. Now with Rochelle inter yard, they are talking to enclosing the siding and going back to the old way. BNSF is probable not going to like it cause they park their MOW equipment there, and that will require some switching on the main line.

[Paul Milenkovic]

What ever happened to the side-transfer gear that John Kneiling was touting? That would seem to be well-suited to serving an industrial siding with a string of COFC cars.

[Overmod]

I was waiting to see if anyone else remembered Stedman side-loaders.

Basically, the Letroporters and Mi-Jacks took away most of the business model. Chief advantage of intermodal containers is precisely that they go from railcar to truck underframe, and are then intended to be 'yarded' in the same manner, and via the same infrastructure, as any other truck. The thought of expensive intermodal trains being stopped, or worse yet, switched in cuts into sidings, simply to transfer containers chills my blood! When you have a 'central' facility to accompli***he intermodal transfer, economies of scale permit the use of capable, fast, flexible container handling solutions.

Oh yes: it might be amusing to see how Stedmans could be adapted to handle stack trains...

A better technology in this respect might be the CargoSpeed (NOT that CargoSprinter stuff) that was developed in Europe. This could be adapted to containers fairly easily, in conjunction with some form of 'sideloading' transfer table at trackside (similar to the kind of infrastructure I developed for gang sideloading, but adapted to handle the extended container as swiveled). Of course, it might be still better to use simple drop-pocket spine cars and van trailers for such a service, with a cheap drop-center ramp at the point where the trailer will be lifted and swiveled...

Something to remember about gang-sideloading is something I never saw Mr. Kneiling discuss: the access to the doors. As mentioned above, if you leave the container on the railcar for loading or unloading, you have to have clear access to the door end of the container (and provide clear swing and positive latchback for those doors, too.) The CargoSpeed approach would at least swing the containers through an angle which gets all the doors lined up to open past each other with the container ends staggered, in not much more 'footprint' than containers all in a line. I would not wait up nights for the introduction of ISO-compliant 48' and 53' containers with side doors... ;-}