Indiana Railroad

[Anonymous]

I was looking at a map of the Indiana Railroad and seen that they go to Newton,IL. There was a article on this railroad a few months back that stated they run more trains than they used to. My question is, where do they run and how often? I would love to get pictures of their locomotives. Any info is appreciated.

[Anonymous]

I have limited knowledge of the INRD, but I do know that they took over the CP coal trains that run out of Chicago southward. CSX crews take the coal out of Chicago and then INRD takes the coal south to Sullivan and elsewhere. INRD also runs in and out of Indianapolis, and they have a regular freight that comes out of Avon yard with about four 4-axle red and white INRD motors, a pretty cool looking consist. That's about all I know. I would think that the INRD would be a pretty good candidate to grab a hold of the line in Indiana that CP wants to get rid of.

[jeaton]

For a start try this off a different page of the Trains.com web site
http://www.trains.com/Content/Dynamic/Articles/000/000/002/313osmbi.asp

Jay

[MP173]

I just read the posted article from the late 80's and then followed up with the article from May, 2002. That has been quite a railroad story.

They are currently (as of 2002) around 100,000 loads per year, from 13,000 their first year. Is most of that coal?

Gabe, what do you know about their operations? How often do they run a coal train over to Newton? How much transloading do they do in Indy? What other traffic do they have?

It sounds as if they would be a natural to take over the Latta sub.

ed

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by MP173

I just read the posted article from the late 80's and then followed up with the article from May, 2002. That has been quite a railroad story.

They are currently (as of 2002) around 100,000 loads per year, from 13,000 their first year. Is most of that coal?

Gabe, what do you know about their operations? How often do they run a coal train over to Newton? How much transloading do they do in Indy? What other traffic do they have?

It sounds as if they would be a natural to take over the Latta sub.

ed

Indeed, they would be a natural to take over the Latta sub—as we know they fit well together (the CP once considered buying the INRD because it fit well into their system).

I know surprisingly little about their operations, though I rail fan it about every three months. As for the power station in Newton, I "think" the spur that has recently been built there is not served by INRD locomotives, but Powder River Basin Coal drags off of CSX. I also didn't know that INRD operated coal off the Latta Sub out of Chicago. How far north do the INRD units go?

I also didn't know INRD operates out of Avon Yard. That kind of surprises me, as I have never seen it before and INRD does have its own yard in Indy. Nonetheless, if you say so, I believe you. I do know that Indiana Southern, which also has red locomotives, has operated trains out of Avon yard.

INRD does a lot of loose boxcar business out of Bloomington. On your typical rail-fanning day, you are likely to see at least one manifest train, two coal trains, and an occasional grain/chemical train (the line is busier than that, but who has the time to rail fan for more than 6-7 hours at a time?).

I also know that the Indiana Southern has a regular run-through coal train that comes south of Indy at about 10 p.m. more or less every night.

INRD also used to operate over the Indiana Transportation Museum tracks about 30 miles north of Indianapolis to Noblesville, where there is a power plant (that was always a neat sight). Unfortunately, the power plant switched to natural gas and they no longer operate.

Even though the INRD is a fairly small operation, it is really two different railroads. On the Illinois side, it has ribbon rail, and has a substantial chemical business, as well as serves an impressive refinery out of Robinson. There aren't too many grain elevators on the Indiana side (everyone thinks of Indiana as a flat, farmland agricultural state, but in reality, there is a lot of exposed rock, and not nearly as much farming in Southern Indiana as you might think). In Illinois there are a lot of grain elevators.

If anyone else has anything on the INRD, I would love to hear about it. She is one of my favorites.

Oh yeah, they have two of their own excursion cars (that are really nice looking). I have seen an excursion train on 3 different occasions. What they really need to do is have the Indiana Transportation Museum’s ex NP light Mikado pull it once—that would be one heck of a sight. ITM’s light Mikado did pull an INRD coal train back in the day. That was before I was a Hoosier, so I didn’t get to see it, but the pictures really looked nice.

Gabe

P.S. I am still convinced that INRD needs to either buy the rest of the IC line to Effingham or, at least, get trackage rights to Effingham, to meet its full potential.

[Anonymous]

Gabe,

THe INRD crews go as far north as Danville, IL where we swapped out with them and the we took the trains north to Chicago where they were rerouted west for Powder River Basin coal. When I was worked the yard third shift regular at Brewer yard in Danville I once piloted a INRD crew north up to Liberty Lane, which is the north end of the switching limits and about seven miles north of the yard. From what those guys told me they are dually qualified as engineers and conductors.
Does anyone know what railroad the LIRC is? They also come out of Avon, I'm thinking it's some Louisville shortline, but I'm not sure on that.

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by n_stephenson

Gabe,

THe INRD crews go as far north as Danville, IL where we swapped out with them and the we took the trains north to Chicago where they were rerouted west for Powder River Basin coal. When I was worked the yard third shift regular at Brewer yard in Danville I once piloted a INRD crew north up to Liberty Lane, which is the north end of the switching limits and about seven miles north of the yard. From what those guys told me they are dually qualified as engineers and conductors.
Does anyone know what railroad the LIRC is? They also come out of Avon, I'm thinking it's some Louisville shortline, but I'm not sure on that.

It is a short line/regional that goes from Louisville to Indianapolis. It is great, another one of my favorites. It doesn't have the traffic of INRD, but it is interesting to rail fan nonetheless and has a fairly strong manifest business. Their colors are green and yellow.

[jeaton]

I believe LIRC was the also the route of Amtrak's Kentucky Cardinal south of Indy.

Within the last couple of years there was also a Trains article on the Indiana Rail Road that focused on the technology being used for train management and other areas of the operation.

Kicking around the theme of further acquisition by the INRD, if I am not mistaken, CSX took a sizeable equity postion in INRD. That sort of leaves another finger in the pie.

Jay

[gabe]

QUOTE: Originally posted by jeaton

I believe LIRC was the also the route of Amtrak's Kentucky Cardinal south of Indy.

Within the last couple of years there was also a Trains article on the Indiana Rail Road that focused on the technology being used for train management and other areas of the operation.

Kicking around the theme of further acquisition by the INRD, if I am not mistaken, CSX took a sizeable equity postion in INRD. That sort of leaves another finger in the pie.

Jay

You are right. The last I heard, CSX is a majority shareholder in the INRD. The way that CSX has been spinning off assets lately make me wonder how much longer this will be the case though.

Gabe

[MP173]

Ok, I will throw in my 2 cents on what I do know.

The L&I is a shortline from Indy to Louisville. The route is the ex PRR line which used to handle The South Wind (Chicago to Florida passenger train before Amtrak). It also handled an Amtrak train in the 90's, but I dont know much about it.

The Illinois side I am sorta familiar with. The line was originally the Illinois Central's line from Effingham to Indy. There are grain elevators on line and Marathon has a refinery in Robinson. There was a Heath Candy plant in Robinson at one time.

I seriously doubt if CN will give up the line to Effingham. They do have a spur into the Newton power plant and to give that up would not be wise. How much interchange is there between CN and INRD at Newton? My guess is that it would be considerable, what with the Marathon refinery and the transloading service.

The neat thing about INRD, at least on paper, is they have quite a network. They interchange with a number of carriers, having access to CSX in Indy, CN, and CP. Do they interchange with NS? I cant think of where they would.

With the coal as a strong base of business, there is money for them to expand services and to diversify.

The May, 2002 article is a good one. It updates quite a bit of their operations. Their use of technology seems rather advanced.

ed

[gabe]

Ed,

I agree with your assessment that CN will not likely give up its hold on that coal spur. However, I think if INRD could purchase the track and give CN trackage rights over the spur or CN could give INRD trackage rights to Effingham, the line would be more valuable.

Everytime I visit Newton, there is considerable interchange. The remnant of IC's old Evansville line (RIP) that still connects with the INRD is used for interchange. The last time I was there, there were over 130 cars for the CN to pick up.

It seems to me, if INRD went all of the way to Effingham, the switching of these cars would be much more efficient. For all practical purposes it would eliminate one of the switching operations--which would mean more competitive prices and more customers for both INRD and CN. But, I am sure there is more to it that I am unaware of.

Gabe

[MP173]

I was down there last week and unfortunately couldnt spare the time to go look at the interchange. BTW...my one fondest memory as a young railfan occurred there at Newton in 1976. It was just about time to return to college and I had purchased a used Pentax 35mm (a real camera!).

Sitting around home I heard the northbound local coming into town and looked out and it was 2 black IC geeps. By that time, I was sick and tired of the orange and white chopped nose rebuilds (GP8's and 10's). Here were 2 black jeeps heading north. I jumped into my car and followed the train to Newton and took photos of it switching there at the junction.

I then set up at the Embarras River bridge as the local stormed out of Newton. It was a good day nearly 30 years ago.

Looking at the photos today, I am struck by how frugal I was. Only four shots taken. If I remember correctly, my summer wage was $110/week, so waste not, want not!

I didnt quite frame the shot correctly as the local left Newton. There is a fishing boat in the foreground and had I taken one more step backwards, the shot would have been perfect. But, I caught the essence of the local, a trace of black exhaust means there is work to do to pull the considerable tonnage out of the valley.

Getting back to the subject. I dont know if Effingham would make much of a difference for INRD. The rate structure is probably the same and it would add more expense to deliverying an extra 25 miles.

130 cars is a lot of interchange!

ed

[gabe]

Ed,

Good story. Kind of shows the difference in generations. As I was growing up, I just caught the last of IC's orange and white GP-10s before they pulled up the St. Louis - Springfield Illinios IC line. As such, I loved them and would give anything to see them. I have 18 locomotives for my train set that I am building, all of them are IC orange and white.

I guess if I grew up with the black Geeps, I probably would have the same feeling about them.

As far as Effingham is concerned, here is my point. I have seen operations with INRD's switching at Newton and CN's switching at Effingham. When the INRD brings its cars to Newton, it switches them onto the old Evansville line and into the siding. The day I counted over 130 cars (I think it was 138), it took over two hours for them to switch. When the CN came and got them it took over an hour to properly line them up and what not. Then when the CN reached Effingham, it switched them again for well over an hour, with some of them going northbound and some going south. If INRD could run them to Effingham the 3+ hours of switching at Newton could be eliminated and they would only have to do the switching in Effingham. Plus, it would be one less exchange. That seems to me like that would be a noticeable savings. Also, I think they are running out of room at Newton.

Gabe

[MP173]

what kind of traffic was it? Covered hoppers, tanks? 138 cars is a lot to be switching at Newton with that configuration. I assume they switch the cars south.

It would almost be better if they coordinated to meet in Newton.

BTW...that is a nice little grade going west out of Newton from the interchange.

ed

[gabe]

Ed,

They were all different kinds of cars. I would say about 45% were tank cars and 25% grain hoppers. The other 30% included a lot of box cars, steel gondolas, and flat cars. There were even coal hoppers (loaded with sand I think). There were no intermodal or auto carriers, but just about everything else.

I think coordinating the meet is part of the problem. If the CN isn't there right on time, it is a problem, because they need the line open for unit grain trains, and coal trains that go through Newton.

Gabe

P.S. All three of the Evansville Line tracks were full and the siding just east of town were full of cars.