1000 people Commuter Trains?

[Anonymous]

Acording to Brian at Altamount Commuter Express its costs 5,000.00 to run a commuter train each trip. One train currently hauls 800 people in double decker coaches. But to push 1000 they would need another Loco. Is 5,000.00 a trip the average cost?
I suppose you could break even in commuter rail is if you did the following.
1.Charge one flat fare of 6.00 bucks a trip no matter how many zones traveled
2. Make commuters sign a contract the same way cell phone companys do now.
They get the Commuter discount and are charged a flat monthly fee even if they dont take the train every day.
3. Reserve seats for the same commuter every day.
4. Commuters could buy Extra Cushy seats with options like massage mode and DVD players. They could then sell them if if they change there jobs.
5. Encourage car pooling to and from the station and charge for parking
6.Sell beer on the train.
7. Charge one rate for commuters and another higher rate for one time users.
8. Work out a deal with airlines to include the cost of the train ticket to and from rthe airport.
9. Dont Run the train unless you have at least 1000 people who agreed to sign a year contract to ride the train.
10. Hire telemarrketers to sell the service and Outside salespeople to sell companys on the idea of Paying for there employees to take the train

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

In response:
1. Flat fares would discourage close-in riders and cross-subsidize riders at the outer edge of the commuter zone.
2. & 7. This is already being done, they're known as multiple-ride and monthly and weekly tickets.
3. Highly impractical.
4. Is this for real?
5. This is already done in most metro areas.
6. Not uncommon on outbound evening runs but state liquor laws can be a restriction.
8. Interline ticketing with airlines is almost impossible to arrange.
9. This would rule out midday and off-peak service.
10. Telemarketing could be counter-productive (most people find it offensive) and transit subsidies do exist in some areas.

[zardoz]

Why would they need another loco? Metra runs (on the ex-CNW Harvard subdivision) 10-car commuter trains daily; each one carries 2000+ people, and is powered by a single F40. Granted, these long trains only make a few station stops, and do take a while to get up to 70mph, but their performance is factored into the schedule.

[CShaveRR]

Jim, you're right about Metra's train size. But that Altamont line probably has grades that we flatlanders aren't too familiar with, and that funky bilevel design they use (instead of respectable gallery cars like ours) may not allow as many passengers per car.

[oltmannd]

That's some good thinking, but (there's always a "but") most of this has, or is, already been done, to good effect, in many places.

My comments:

1. Zone fares usually result in higher farebox recovery.
2. Not sure this is any different than weekly/monthly pass. Maybe have an annual pass?
3&4. There used to be commuter clubs in some places that had their own cars (not just a seat). You COULD try a first-class, reserved seating arrangement, particularly if some of the suburban destinations were upscale communities.
5. OK. Depends on your goal, I suppose
6. Metro North and LIRR are awash in beer!
7. Pretty typical fare structure.
8. Excellent idea. Why not thru ticketing with Amtrak, too?
9. How would this be any different than arranging your service around actual avg ridership?
10. Gov't "transit check" and tax free flex spending accounts are available to pay for commuting. The pitch is to corporations to provide these things, not to individuals.

[Paul Milenkovic]

About those gallery cars. On the lower level you had the 2+2 seating, which was OK. On the upper level you had a few 1+1 seats which were considered primo. But then you had "the bench", where you sat sideways with about 20 other people (or whatever the number was).

I guess you could think of "the bench" as a better alternative to standing, but riders are pretty packed in there, and for a lot of riders on middle-line stations on rush hour trains, it was pretty much the only place left to sit. I have been on Bombardier double-deckers and I have spent many a season on gallery cars, and I think I would prefer the Bombardier cars.

The only thing I can't remember on the Bombardier cars is if they are 2+2 or 3+2. 3+2 seating is no different than being jammed into an airplane or Greyhound, for all of you guys moaning about how bad intercity bus travel is as an alternative. Oh, and besides the fact that most East Coast single-decker commuters are 3+2, the Japanese Bullet Train cabins are all 3+2, unless you spring for first class, where it is 2+2 (some parlor car!). So the idea that trains are inherently more comfortable than other modes is an artifact of tradition, regulation/deregulation, and patterns of subsidy. But I think I would even prefer a middle seat in 3+2 seating to the gallery car bench.

[Anonymous]

The Issue here is that Commuter Train Authoritys pay a fixed cost to run the train no matter if it has 50 people or 500 people. They still have to shell out 5,000 a trip. The cost of parking in many places has gone past 6.00

[zardoz]

QUOTE: Originally posted by CShaveRR

Jim, you're right about Metra's train size. But that Altamont line probably has grades that we flatlanders aren't too familiar with, and that funky bilevel design they use (instead of respectable gallery cars like ours) may not allow as many passengers per car.

Quite possibly; however, the grade eastbound out of Harvard is about .6% for a few miles. And I was under the impression that the trains in California ran mostly along the shore line, or just to the suburbs, not the distances like the 63 miles from Chicago to Harvard. Perhaps our friends from the west will enlighten us.

[passengerfan]

The Altamont Commuter train crosses Altamont Pass the reason why an extra power unit would be required for additional passengers or cars. Its not like that flatlander Metra system in Illinois. Believe it or not we really do have mountains in the west.

[chad thomas]

The ACE train crosses Altamont pass. The grades are:
EB 0.80% 11 miles MP45-56
WB 1.00% 14 miles MP57-71

[daveklepper]

The train is still more comfortable than the bus ---if the track is maintained. You can get up and go to the john without having to figure out just which handholds you are going to use to steady yourself. (If a suburban bus has a john, highly unlikely) If refreshments are served, that too is a plus, as they are on Metro North (including the New Haven line) and LIRR.

[Anonymous]

Does SEPTA have bathooms? Once I had to get off and unload because the car I was on had no bathrooms

[gfjwilmde]

Some of you are so way behind the times, it's a shame. I lived in New York City for half my life and I can tell you first hand, that alot of those commuter trains and even transit trains carried that during an average rush hour crush and possibly more. The M series style cars the Long Island Railroad and the Metro North Commuter Railroad uses have seating for 120+ people(depending on the configuration). They normally run 10 to 12 car trains during the rush hour period and sometimes all day into the early evening. So, there you have it. If Metra(in Chicago) runs 10 car trains with 160 seating capacity, New Jersey Transit runs 8 to 12 car trains(120 average seating), New York's commuter operation run the same and then Boston's run the same(120 to 135 average seating)...well you see my point. A 1000 people per train is pretty much attainable in the first couple of morning runs. You all with your new found commuter service are so way behind the times.



GLENN
A R E A L RAILROADER!!!!!
A R E A L AMTRAKER!!!!!
A T R U E L Y DISGUSTED AND DISGRUNTLED AMERICAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[dldance]

QUOTE: Originally posted by passengerfan

The Altamont Commuter train crosses Altamont Pass the reason why an extra power unit would be required for additional passengers or cars. Its not like that flatlander Metra system in Illinois. Believe it or not we really do have mountains in the west.

Niles Canyon is the other limiting grade on ACE. I am not sure of the grade on the current ROW but the parallel track now operated by the Niles Canyon RR has some grades near 3%. I know that the current grade is flatter thanks to the tunneling but this is rugged land.

dd

[passengerfan]

I figure the rail mileage of the ACE trains between Stockton and San Jose right at 89 miles one way for a two hour commute. That includes Altamont Pass in each direction and I beleive about six stops. I don't have a timetable or the exact info in front of me guess I should take a trip to the station in Stockton its only six blocks from where I live. I often hear the first train in the AM which departs Stockton about 4:30 AM and the second goes i hour later.

[Anonymous]

89 miles? Would that make it one of the longest commuter runs in the US?
Martinsburg to Washington DC is 60 something miles and Pouhkipsie to Penn Station is like 70 miles

[CSSHEGEWISCH]

Chicago-South Bend is 88 miles per NICTD and earlier South Shore Line timetables. Hoboken-Port Jervis is 87 miles on NJ Transit. I'm not sure what's considered the end of the suburban zone on LIRR.

[daveklepper]

Perhaps the simplest way would be for the authority to trade up to more powerful locomtives?