Train Kept A-Idling All Night Long

[MP57313]

Here's a question maybe someone can help with.

In Baltimore, MARC leaves its electric commuter engines engaged and idling all weekend long, even though they run no weekend service.

I would think it would cost too much (electricity costs) to keep them idling all weekend long. Would it not be more efficient to shut them down Friday eve?

Or is it too time consuming to start them back up in time for the Monday morning rush hour?

Thanks

MP

[trainfan1221]

Aroung here, NJtransit keeps their trains idling all weekend. They do have weekend service, but a lot of trains aren't used and sit in the yards. It supposedly is a lot more bother to go through the whole start up procedure than to leave them idling, which apparently uses comparatively little fuel,for a train that is. Also, I think it might actually take extra fuel to restart, but I am not sure about this.

[Overmod]

Hold on a moment, I believe he's not referring to "idling" in the diesel sense -- what he means is that the locomotives have the pans up, and presumably have air pumped up, lighting and heat kept on the trains, etc.

My initial guess would be that it's cheaper overall (including labor cost and time to heat or cool trainsets) to keep the train powered on instead of pulling down the pans and leaving them to sit over the weekend. Might also help eliminate vandalism, etc., if the trains are kept lighted.

I would be interested to know the cost difference between providing power from the locomotives vs. "shore power" or hotel-power connections from the utility grid. I would be surprised if the total cost of the latter were in fact lower... for electric locomotives.

For diesels, the situation is a bit different -- the train would require hotel power, and presumably there would be some system like a Kim Hotstart on the locomotive to keep its coolant and oil warm and circulated, and perhaps an external connection to allow cranking the engine easily. New Jersey, in particular, now has very strict anti-idling legislation in place for highway trucks, and one might expect some action with respect to locomotives -- even those (or perhaps especially those) owned or contracted for by a State agency.

[Anonymous]

Strict Anti Idling for highway trucks. It was a joke and I would be not surprised if it continues to have very spotty enforcement.

In my town the UP would leave trains on one of the mains for days at a time idling day and night.

[dehusman]

If you don't keep air on the train then you have to perform a full initial terminal brake test when you start up. If you keep the trainline charged then all you need is a set and release. Plus for a passenger train it keeps the train warm/cool so the first trip of the morning isn't done with a hot/cold interior.

Dave H.

[jchnhtfd]

And to add a bit to Dave's comment -- it is amazing how long it takes to do a full initial terminal brake test. A train is not like a car: you don't just hop in the cab, turn the key, and head out. My guess would be that for electrics, keeping the train live over the weekend just doesn't cost that much money or use that much energy.

There have been a lot of threads about the merits of starting and stopping diesels -- which also isn't as easy as it sounds -- but more and more lines are going to things like the Kim Hotstart mentioned to reduce costs (and, incidentally, environmental costs)..

As to anti-idling legislation for trucks? IMHO it's one of those nice, feel good sound good ideas which is, for all practical purposes, unenforceable...

[CSXrules4eva]

Septa does the same thing with their silverliner sets. This is mainly done at Landsdale Terminal and at 30th Street. I haven't seen to many idleing at Septa's main yard Wayne Junction. I think I'm going to have to go with what the majority said about cost. It's cheaper overall to keep the trainsets headed or cooled when they're going to be used again in a relativey short time. Sometimes if a trainset has just been powered up (on Septa) tested, and put in service right away. Passangers start to complain about how the heat or air conditioning isn't working properly because, it wasn't left on.

[modorney]

Caterpillar, and probably other diesel prime mover builders have an idle setting for their engines. I seem to remember a speed of 250 rpm, and a fuel consumption in the range of 5 or 10 gallons per hour.

[BaltACD]

And then there is the bain of shutting down diesel's.....the infamous dead battery syndrome.

Dead batteries occur one of two ways....the batteries are worn out and won't hold a charge.....or my all time favorite...the engineer that shut the engine down did not open the main battery switch and the other accessories on the engine drained the battery while the prime mover was shut down.

[Anonymous]

Its not just trains, trucks idle all night too..... Unenforceable? Ha! At our facility we force them to shut down or else we won't unload them..... Half of them can't get started again, but that's their worries.....

You'd think truckers could afford batteries.....

[emmar]

I have seen diesel freight engines idling in Dunsmuir CA for two days and it seems like it would cost more to idle an engine for two days than to shut it down and start it up again.