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Warning to "ALL" Railfans.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 16, 2005 12:50 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

dayliner you are so wrong.. to take pictures is your right but it dont make it rightto take pictures of crews on the trains. if you feel that it is your right to snap photo of crews then it ok for me to come to yor house and photo you and your wife by the pool or hot tub. how about the bed room. In other words dont come looking to take my picture unless i am ready to have it done. the problem with all you railfans is that you think you have the rightt to do what ever you want. when you want as long as it is on public property. if i decided to take pics of you at your house from the street then by the same token it was on public property . why such a problem with it because you take pictures of crew members breaking rules. simple enough.


I Don't think so-

Thats crazy, and doesn't make any sense whatsoever.

By Transporting goods, you put yourself in the public eye and make yourself more then likely to have your picture taken

Terms: 'More then likely', odds of 50% +1

By swimming in my pool- I did not ask to be in the public eye, I am on my own property, with my name written on the deed of owenership. If somebody wants to take pictures of me in my pool, I most likely wouldn't give a hoot and nickel, but law states I can use 'severe' force to get you off my property.

5 years ago, I could pick you up and through you into my branch grinder thing.

so 'deadly' was changed to 'sevre'

You are not on your own property, the property you are on belongs to ___________ inc. (insert name of opperational railraod on blank)

You do not have a right to decide what happens on other people's property.

If you have broken the law that many times, or your afraid your wife will be able to identify you because your pictures may be up on the interent and come after you for all the money you owe her, perhaps I would suggest a job that doesn't have this elemnt attatched to it.

May I suggest Lybrarian?

There aren't an overabundance of lybrarianfans out and about.
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Posted by tree68 on Monday, May 16, 2005 10:52 AM
You'll get what you give if the local gendarmery come to call. Be courteous, and you'll get courteous right back, even if it's a request/order to vamoose. Although standing on your rights from behind bars does have a certain drama to it.

Keep in mind, too, that publicly accessible doesn't always mean public. Sitting in the parking lot of the local big box store might not garner a call from the RR, but might get you a visit from the cops on behalf of store management.

As for an individual's picture - I don't know the letter of the law, but it is possible that a person who is clearly recognizable could need to sign a release if the photographer plans to sell the image. Pros who specialize in stock photography do that all the time. This wouldn't be the case for personal use, or you could never take a picture of much of anything. Imagine the hassle at a crowded beach! The key would be recognizable. As was mentioned, in a lot of RR pictures, you can't even tell anyone is in the cab!

LarryWhistling
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Posted by spbed on Monday, May 16, 2005 10:34 AM
H'mm when I was in Gibbon & Grand Island the police waved to me as they went by. Also several cars stopped to ask if any "special train" or steamer was coming by as they saw my tripod set up& they did not want to miss anything special . [:o)][:D]


Originally posted by BNSF railfan.
[

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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Posted by wcfan4ever on Monday, May 16, 2005 10:02 AM
I don't worry about being question by police anymore. A few weeks ago, my and a friend were parking in a public parking lot watching the Neenah to Manitowoc CN train switch the yard. The crew then got off the train, starred at us for a while, went inside the office and watched us out the window. I told my friend just watch for the cops cause I know thier coming. I told him to stay right here cause I know the railroad can't do anything. Next thing you know, four cop cars have us boxed in! Only one got out and asked us questions. He said "Do you frequently do this kind of activity?" I replied, "Every time I get the chance!" The other three cops left and I chatted with the cop for about an hour about railfanning. He got interested in it...[:D] He told me the best option was to call the railroad and set up a meeting with them and explain that you mean no harm and are just there to watch. Dealing with CN...Hmmm...yeah, that would work out...haha! I wonder what the railroad thought after the police left and we didn't, the cop even said the railroad wanted us moved but I told the cop, the railroad has no say so if were not on thier property and he did agree. Cops aren't that hard to deal with!

Dave Howarth Jr. Livin' On Former CNW Spur From Manitowoc To Appleton In Reedsville, WI

- Formerly From The Home of Wisconsin Central's 5,000,000th Carload

- Manitowoc Cranes, Manitowoc Ice Machines, Burger Boat

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 9, 2005 11:10 AM
I find it interesting that some folks prefer to stay out of pictures. What are pictures? They are a record of one instant in our lives. Our memories may not be able to replicate this moment so we take pictures.

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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, May 9, 2005 11:06 AM
And some food for dat dog a-fixing to bite me as I take your picture he he.
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Posted by markdbrungardt on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:53 AM
Very rarely in any of the pictures of trains I have ever seen is the crew even visable much less identifiable. So exactly what is Wabash's problem? We take photos of trains not the crews.
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Posted by chad thomas on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:38 AM
[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]
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Posted by gabe on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:36 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Randy Stahl

QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

dayliner you are so wrong.. to take pictures is your right but it dont make it rightto take pictures of crews on the trains. if you feel that it is your right to snap photo of crews then it ok for me to come to yor house and photo you and your wife by the pool or hot tub. how about the bed room. In other words dont come looking to take my picture unless i am ready to have it done. the problem with all you railfans is that you think you have the rightt to do what ever you want. when you want as long as it is on public property. if i decided to take pics of you at your house from the street then by the same token it was on public property . why such a problem with it because you take pictures of crew members breaking rules. simple enough.
If you want a photo of me and my wife in the bedroom let me know so I can leave the lights on . Leaving a $5.00 bill in the hedge would be a nice gesture too !


Randy,

You better make sure $4.75 goes to your wire and $0.25 goes to you.

Gabe
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Posted by chad thomas on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:31 AM
$5.00, what a deal
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Posted by Randy Stahl on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:24 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

dayliner you are so wrong.. to take pictures is your right but it dont make it rightto take pictures of crews on the trains. if you feel that it is your right to snap photo of crews then it ok for me to come to yor house and photo you and your wife by the pool or hot tub. how about the bed room. In other words dont come looking to take my picture unless i am ready to have it done. the problem with all you railfans is that you think you have the rightt to do what ever you want. when you want as long as it is on public property. if i decided to take pics of you at your house from the street then by the same token it was on public property . why such a problem with it because you take pictures of crew members breaking rules. simple enough.
If you want a photo of me and my wife in the bedroom let me know so I can leave the lights on . Leaving a $5.00 bill in the hedge would be a nice gesture too !
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Posted by gabe on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:12 AM
I will leave it to others as to whether there is a "moral" right not to have your picture taken. Some people believe it steals your soul . . .

But, for the most part, there is no legal prohibition.

Gabe
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Posted by chad thomas on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:08 AM
Mabee I'm missing something but how can you have someone arrested for taking your picture?

I can respect your desire not to have your picture taken but you are not going to stop it from happening short of hiding from cameras. So deal with it. There are a lot of things I don't like, for instance loud car stereos, but there is nothing I can do about it so I deal with it. That's life.
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Posted by wabash1 on Monday, May 9, 2005 10:00 AM
fievel

Read what i said dont take it out of context. it said I have no problem ""get it "" no problem with the ones who ask ( ASK key word here ) it is the ones who think its thier right to photo anything they want and nobody has the right to stop them. If i dont want my picture taken then you should be considerate and not do it. regardless of what you want . if you dont want to listen fine. the police will show up. and its not a waste of thier time . or mine and your time at that point dont mean squat to me. in other words if you wont be cosiderate with me i wont hesitate send your butt to jail... I have tried to give you the basic of why some of us dont like you guys. I dont have a problem with railfans or buffs . I dont break rules and dont care who is watching but i absolutely hate having my picture taken and the only 3 forms that have my pic on them is my company id drivers lic and my gun owners card. this is the way i feel. no chip . I am not changing
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Posted by fievel on Monday, May 9, 2005 7:56 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

gabe and dayliner and who ever was agreeing with them. its like this I have the right not to have my pic taken . and when most buffs ask ( and some do ) i have no problem with that its the ones like you guys who think its thier right to do what they want. these are the ones that give fans the bad names. these are the ones i report and most generally i wont see them again . so its up to you be kind or join the ones that we dont see anymore.


Wabash1- I don't think a whole lot of fans are "out to get you", so why are you so
worried that we might photograph you? A railroad official could just as easily
take your mug as part of an investigation into rules violations. And that is their
right! And you're not going to get rid of them so easily.

Please take that chip off your shoulder ,and stop wasting law enforcements valuable
time checking out every person who has merely "offended" you.

Cascade Green Forever ! GET RICH QUICK !! Count your Blessings.

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Posted by wabash1 on Sunday, May 8, 2005 11:49 PM
gabe and dayliner and who ever was agreeing with them. its like this I have the right not to have my pic taken . and when most buffs ask ( and some do ) i have no problem with that its the ones like you guys who think its thier right to do what they want. these are the ones that give fans the bad names. these are the ones i report and most generally i wont see them again . so its up to you be kind or join the ones that we dont see anymore.
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Posted by PigFarmer1 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 11:23 AM
Big deal. Your friend shows his ID, they run it through NCIC, he presumably comes out clean, and he goes his merry way. End of story. This kind of stuff has been going on for years. It's not worth crying about.
MoW employee
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Posted by eolafan on Saturday, May 7, 2005 11:10 AM
I have never been personally hassled by police but have had a few come over to where I was parked and "checked me out" and I even had one local officer park next to me and I found out he was a railfan and a volunteer on some steam fan trips and we spoke for over an hour. I also became aquainted with the now retired BNSF captain of police in our area and he would frequently stop by Eola yard to give us posters, calendars or just plain chat for hours on end. Bottom line if you (or I) are not doing anything wrong, you or I should not be worried but rather thankful that somebody is watching out for us. If more were this vigillant in the past perhaps we would not have experienced 9-11 (food for thought).
Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim)
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Posted by Chris30 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 11:01 AM
So, you want to call the police for something...

QUOTE: from BNSF Railfan
[My] friend was out Railfanning and some guy was watching every thing that he was doing."


Can you say STALKER!

There's just such a fine line on everything post 9/11..
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Posted by METRO on Saturday, May 7, 2005 10:36 AM
I really don't see why it's too much of an issue.

I'm a college student and I've learned one of the cardinal methods of proving that you are a legit railfan: have a camera. I'd guess I'm not the railfan architype so when I'm relaxing on a bench in the public park next to the CP line where I do most of my watching, I make sure to have my Pentax K1000 with me.

I've gotten quite a few looks of surprise from the CP cops when they come over and ask why a 21 year old guy with a skateboard and a punk-rock band shirt on is watching the tracks and I tell them I'm a railfan and model railroader. They usually see the camera and that helps em believe it. Usually the next question isn't for my ID but is more along the lines of "So... ... how did someone your age get into liking trains?"
LOL

~METRO
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Posted by gabe on Saturday, May 7, 2005 9:55 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by wabash1

dayliner you are so wrong.. to take pictures is your right but it dont make it rightto take pictures of crews on the trains. if you feel that it is your right to snap photo of crews then it ok for me to come to yor house and photo you and your wife by the pool or hot tub. how about the bed room. In other words dont come looking to take my picture unless i am ready to have it done. the problem with all you railfans is that you think you have the rightt to do what ever you want. when you want as long as it is on public property. if i decided to take pics of you at your house from the street then by the same token it was on public property . why such a problem with it because you take pictures of crew members breaking rules. simple enough.


Actually Wabash 1, it is you who are wrong.

If a person can look into your house or backyard from public property, you have—relatively—no legal expectation of privacy. There are certain voyeurism statutes that make it illegal to peer into someone's house for sexual gratification. And, there are nuisance laws, but you would be surprised to learn the lack of coverage for such activity.

Don't believe me? Claim to hurt your back at work and file a workers comp claim then carefully watch public property around your house for someone with a camera. Insurance companies do this all of the time.

I try to be respectful to people who are actually in the business, but I don't know where you get off saying that rail fans think we can do anything we want. The previous posts were hardly invasive, and I failed to read any indication that anyone advocated doing anything illegal.

Gabe
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Posted by spbed on Saturday, May 7, 2005 7:54 AM
I had a BNSF cop ask me for ID at the diamond in Colton. When he saw he 1st thought I worked for the UPRR as I was wearing a UPRR T-shirt & BB hat.

Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR  Austin TX Sub

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Posted by Dayliner on Saturday, May 7, 2005 3:47 AM
No, Wabash1, you're wrong. It's perfectly OK for me to take pictures of you or anyone else where there is no reasonable expectation of privacy, and that includes walking down the street or doing your job. I have a reasonable expectation of privacy in my own home. I do not have a reasonable expectation of privacy when I am at work, and I cannot object when people chose to take pictures of me at work.

However, you are perfectly entitled, if you think that my taking pictures of trains or anything else, will inhibit the discharge of your duty as an employee (that is, if it poses a safety risk, etc), to call the cops on me. I don't object. That's my problem, I'll deal with it, and I don't want to get in the way of you doing your job.
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Posted by wabash1 on Saturday, May 7, 2005 3:37 AM
dayliner you are so wrong.. to take pictures is your right but it dont make it rightto take pictures of crews on the trains. if you feel that it is your right to snap photo of crews then it ok for me to come to yor house and photo you and your wife by the pool or hot tub. how about the bed room. In other words dont come looking to take my picture unless i am ready to have it done. the problem with all you railfans is that you think you have the rightt to do what ever you want. when you want as long as it is on public property. if i decided to take pics of you at your house from the street then by the same token it was on public property . why such a problem with it because you take pictures of crew members breaking rules. simple enough.
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Posted by Dayliner on Saturday, May 7, 2005 3:15 AM
I'm within my rights to take photos of trains from public property, and Wabash1 is within his rights to call the cops on me. Calling the cops is one of the ways in which we look out for each other; it's part of our exercise of social responsibility. I should be able to satisfy any police officer that my intentions in taking pictires of trains are innocent and harmless. If I can't, I'll move on and find somewhere else to takes pictures of trains. End of story and 'nuff said.
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Posted by andrewjonathon on Saturday, May 7, 2005 1:55 AM
Just a point of interest regarding through shipments to Europe. I have read of some discussions of building a container port in Churchill. From what I have read, global warming is increasingly making it more feasible to turn Churchill into a year round port. I understand that shipping distances from Churchill to Europe are quite competitive with the ports on the East coast.
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Posted by andrewjonathon on Saturday, May 7, 2005 1:16 AM
Most people think railfanning is a little 'different' already. If people started calling the Police to notify them ahead of time about their railfanning activities I think that would seal the deal - they would know the person was off their rocker.
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Posted by fuzzybroken on Saturday, May 7, 2005 12:21 AM
Ok, here it is:
http://www.krages.com/phoright.htm

-Mark
http://www.geocitiescom/fuzzybroken
-Fuzzy Fuzzy World 3
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, May 6, 2005 11:58 PM
Out west I occasionally would pull over and the engineer would hold the train momentarily as I aimed my inadequate camera at them.

Always had a toot on the horn and a wave.

There is a post office not too far from the tracks where I live, I shoot from there. And visit sanctioned events with other local railfans from time to time.
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Posted by fuzzybroken on Friday, May 6, 2005 10:51 PM
Ya know what, I won't be worrying about it. While railfanning, I am not doing anything illegal, so I have nothing to worry about. I always try to wave to the train personnel, and give a nod to the police when I see them. I want people to know what I am doing, that it is perfectly normal, and who I am.

Of course there's always going to be some $%^&*# who doesn't think I should be doing what I am doing, but they can be dealt with fairly effectively just by being courteous and giving a brief explanation. And I have found that police usually side with the most rational, cool-headed person in any situation, so it's always good to be that person.

And then there's Plan B: know your rights, and have a good lawyer. I know I do!!! I also carry around with me a printout of a PDF file from a law firm that someone posted in response to the "Metra incident". If I figure out where that PDF is, I'll post a link to it.

Happy railfanning, and stay safe!
-Mark
http://www.geocities.com/fuzzybroken
-Fuzzy Fuzzy World 3

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