Horse shoe curve

[karen3172]

Hey everybody, This may have been covered but I am going on a motorcycle trip to (combining my two passions[8D]) Pa. to visit Altoona and Horse Shoe Curve...I have lodging set up but wanting to know about any interesting operations/sites to visit while in the area.
Ronnie

[Anonymous]

You'll get plenty of response, I'm sure. If you are interested in sort of the pre-history of railroads, I think the nearby Alleghany Portage RR National Historical site is good. Before the PRR was built, the state maintained a system of canals and rails across the state. The portage was a stationary engine that towed canal boats and other freight up a track and over the mountains.
Altoona, of course, has the railroaders' museum.

Larry

[martin.knoepfel]

Did the Allegheny and Portage Railroad really pull entire canal-boats? I always thought they transloaded the cargo into freight-cars, which were pulled on rails over the hill.

[Anonymous]

The canal boats were built to be split in half, and the halves rode a flat car up. I believe they did loose freight, as well. They used hemp ropes, with the occasional disaster. The entire system, called the Main Line of Public Works, was a pretty odd affair, meant to compete with the Water Level Route of the Erie Canal.

[oltmannd]

The canal boats came apart in sections, when up the incline to the top of the hill. Then they were loaded onto a std RR and hauled to Johnstown, reassembled and plopped back in the water to go to Pittsburg. How Pennsylvania figured this could compete with the Erie Canal is a real mystery, but, I guess it was try it or just sit and watch Phila whither away.

While in Altoona, visit the RR Mem Museum http://www.railroadcity.com/

You can also go up to Cresson and watch the helpers cut on and off

[martin.knoepfel]

@oltmannd & ifish

thank you for your answers

[Modelcar]

...Karen: Suggest visiting: Gallitzin tunnels...Located several miles west of Horseshoe Curve at summit of mountain in GallItzin....Follow signs back into it.
Also you might check out Staple Bend Tunnel....Oldest railroad tunnel in the US....It's right in that area...check locally for directions. Has had 2 million dollars spent on it for tourist use and I believe a road built to it. It was first opened in 1834. {Older than Horseshoe Curve}...That dates to 1854.
Right beside Gallitzin tunnels is a motel catering especially to rail fans...They advertise in TRAINS mazagine at times....and it most likely can be pulled up on the web.."The Tunnel Inn"....

[Anonymous]

You are certainly welcome, but meanwhile I don't know that we have been very helpful to Ronnie in the original question. There must be people better qualified to answer than me. C'mon, people.

[Anonymous]

Galitzen tunnels
horse shoe curve (duh!)
And the railroad musem. Alot of people say: " wanna see trains!", but the musem is very cool, i recomend checking it out.

[Anonymous]

If you go to the musuem there is a flyer you can pick up a flyer that show how to get many intereting places all within an hour to each site at most. Some of the places I like are Cassandra and Cresson. Cresson is a helper base on the line so you can watch helpers getting added to trains. There is also an interchange with rj corman. cassandra is located in a cut in the mountain. Ussually cassandra doesn't have that many people around so it's kinda nice. there is also a bridge across from the musuem that is good to see trains from. All these places aer public land and have spaces for railfans to watch.
Andrew

[Pennsy58]

I would also recommend a trip to the Juniata Engine Shops. Besides alot of NS power, its quite common to see foreign power there for servicing. I recall being out there awhile ago and a engine from the Alaska RR was in for refit. Hers a link to a site that will give you alot of information and a map showing where most of the towers, yards and facilities are located. Have fun!!!

http://www.trainweb.org/horseshoecurve-nrhs/S_Alto.htm

[karen3172]

Sorry it took so long to reply but thanks for information....I will definitely put it to use. I will have 3 days there and really looking forward to it. Next, Cajon Pass June 22 for four days...(Boy, I love my wife!!!!!)[8D]

[karen3172]

Oh yeah, unforunately I made my hotel reservations (priceline, etc?) already before checking out the railfan friendly lodging.
Ronnie

[Anonymous]

Please try to give us a trip report when you get back. I don't know if you are a narrow gauge/steam fan, but the East Broad Top isn't so far away. I've never been, but plan to go this fall.

[dwil89]

Been away from the forum for awhile....Here goes...Once you visit the Horseshoe Curve and Railroaders Museum, take a ride up to Juniata via Chestnut Street on the Track 3 side...to get to Chestnut, cross over the Main at 17th Street from the Museum side onto the North side, turn right and follow this road North. You will pass the Juniata Shops on your right and at a Sheets Gas station(my last letter of alphabet key is not working) turn right and you will come to the Juniata Turntable where you can see various power waiting for heavy repairs, including foreign power. Head another block North and another right onto 8th Street, park in a dirt parking lot and walk out onto a sidewalked road bridge and you will overlook the mainline at Rose and also see alot of old railroad cars in the boneyard. From the Summit near Cresson on Westward, Rte 53 is the magic road to follow...Cresson has the Station Inn Railfan Bed and Breakfast, where I stay quite frequently....Lilly, Cassandra, Summerhill, South Fork, Conemaugh, Johnstown on the West Slope are all fine places to railfan on the West Slope, and Rte 53 passes or runs through all these towns. I own a Yahoo Group that deals specifically with the area in question with links to other Yahoo Groups that cover the area, especially the West Slope. Anyone is welcome to view the message archives, and join if they like to ask questions or post trip reports, pictures from trips to the area, etc...My family is from the West side of that hill. Dave Williams Group is called [e-mail]

[Junctionfan]

When did NS remove the 4th line and how long is it triple/ used to be quadruple tracked for?

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Junctionfan

When did NS remove the 4th line and how long is it triple/ used to be quadruple tracked for?

The 4th track between Alto in Altoona and C in Conemaugh was removed in 1981....There is still a 4 track section between Cresson and Tunnelhill. Railfans can view the action from the Rte 53 Overpass North of Cresson. There is a gravel pull off where you can park and walk onto a sidewalk on a roadbridge to view the Mainline underneath, or else walk down onto the old bridge abutment which is slightly lower than the new bridge. You will see 5 tracks here as 4 are Mainline and the 5th is called the '0' track. Everything combines at the top to form 3 tracks again.(and also combines in Cresson to the West at CP MO, near The Station Inn from 4 back to 3 tracks from there on West. so you have about two and a half miles of 4 track Main)1 goes through the New Portage Tunnel and Tracks 2 and 3 go through the Allegheny Tunnel. Dave Williams @ [e-mail]

[dwil89]

To fini***he question,How long was the line around Horseshoe 4 tracks, it was around 80 years or so....In the 1898-1902 timeframe, alot of improvements and realignment was done between Altoona and Johnstown. The line around Horseshoe was initially 2 tracks, then 3, and finally 4 before retreating to 3 in 1981...Actually at one time, there were 6 tracks on the East side.... The PRR bought out the State owned Portage Railroad in the mid 1850's and used trackage between Duncansville and Tunnelhill as an alternate route..for overflow, etc..It went around its own Curve called "'Muleshoe Curve", and tied in to the PRR Main on the East side of the Summit Tunnels...It was double track until the 1950's, then went to single until it was torn out in 1981 to make way for the new 4 lane Rte 22. The Muleshoe Curve is still in existence as a walking trail maintained by the National Park Service. Dave Williams @ [e-mail]

[Modelcar]

....Dave: Question re: Walking trail around Mule Shoe Curve...Is that trail in any way connected to what I assume is a trail...near Staple Bend Tunnel....? And from what I have read on here the S B Tunnel has had money spent on it for trail folks...Is it open now to actually walk through and can one drive to it...? Thanks for any help in advance. I will be in the area in about 2 weeks.

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Dave: Question re: Walking trail around Mule Shoe Curve...Is that trail in any way connected to what I assume is a trail...near Stable Bend Tunnel....? And from what I have read on here the S B Tunnel has had money spent on it for trail folks...Is it open now to actually walk through and can one drive to it...? Thanks for any help in advance. I will be in the area in about 2 weeks.

The Muleshoe Curve Trail is on the opposite side of the Mountain from Staple Bend...Muleshoe Curve is down at the bottom of the grade on old 22 between Cresson and Duncansville....Staple Bend is down at Mineral Point....I hiked out there just a couple of weeks ago...I hike out several times a year. There is a parking lot in Mineral Point for the trail...A two mile hike will bring you to the Tunnel, which you can walk through, about 900 feet, and then you will end up out in the old Slag dumps from the old Johnstown Steel operations and the Conemaugh and Black Lick....To get to Staple Bend from Route 22, exit at the 271 Nanty Glo exit which is just West of Ebensburg, take 271 South for several miles and you will see a road on the left marked 'Mineral Point-2 Miles' and is marked Mineral Point Rd....Turn left here and go down a couple of miles into Mineral Point,,,,make a right onto Beech Hill Road, and pass under the Mainline. Road will then curve sharply to the left....another 500 yards on the right will bring you to the parking area for the National Park Service maintained Staple Bend Tunnel and Trail....2 mile hike from there will bring you to the Tunnel...I will also be out there for a couple of days in 2 weeks....Dave Williams @ [e-mail]

[Modelcar]

....Gee, thanks for the detailed info Dave....Probably can't do the 2 mile hike...even though wife and I are both walkers. Wife just had foot surgery 5 weeks ago and of course that would not be something to try. But I appreciate the info of it's where abouts.
If you happen to see a white Lexus with Indiana licensce # 2 in the area during that time period It should be us...I am thinking of giving the tunnels at Gallitzin another look, etc....

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

....Gee, thanks for the detailed info Dave....Probably can't do the 2 mile hike...even though wife and I are both walkers. Wife just had foot surgery 5 weeks ago and of course that would not be something to try. But I appreciate the info of it's where abouts.
If you happen to see a white Lexus with Indiana licensce # 2 in the area during that time period It should be us...I am thinking of giving the tunnels at Gallitzin another look, etc....

If you are able to ride bicycles, they are permitted on that trail too....A business across from the parking lot rents them...I have also seen where on certain occasions, the NPS offers tours, they ride people back to the Tunnel in a vehicle for those that might have difficulty with the walk......Dave Williams @ [e-mail]

[Modelcar]

....All good info Dave....We'll keep all this in mind and if we do get to that specific area we'll know what may be available....Would like to see that tunnel. Just now looked at a Pennsylvania map and realized I may have never been to Mineral Point. I'm a bit surprised that tunnel is as far north as compared to due east from Johnstown. Of course we've been around most of that area some time in the past but this is one location that probably have not. Am I correct the Staple Bend tunnel was part of the original rail line owned by the State of Pennsylvania....? It's also surprising the location is down on the west slope beyond the summit of the Alleghenies....How did that route the tunnel served pass over or through the summit...? Or was this tunnel part of the original Portage route with lifts, canals and rails...? Just a bit of confusion on this specific route it served.
I'm also thinking of the route of the State of Pennsylvania line was the route up and around "Mule Shoe Curve" and that crossed the mountain range at the summit and the New Portage tunnel...So, perhaps Dave you can untangle this a bit for us....

[Modelcar]

...Took another look Dave....and realizing I've been to Mundy's Corner many times in the past...on 271 so I've been past the route that would lead to Mineral Point....We would be arriving in the area from the Johnstown end of that route not from the north {Rt. 22}....I suppose it's even possible I have been to Mineral Point many years ago but not remembering....But it looks rather easy to find.

[dwil89]

From Johnstown, take 271 North into Woodvale, past the Johnstown America Plant and you will notice a huge old Steel Plant building is being torn down behind the Johnstown(Freightcar America) Plant.271 will come to an intersection, you will make a left, and then another left to continue following 271 and will pass over the Mainline into East Conemaugh...Take 271 up the hill and then bear right at a fork...Follow 271 North a couple of miles from there and you will see the Mineral Point sign and Mineral Point Rd on your right....Dave Williams @ [e-mail]

[Modelcar]

Check.....Got that Dave. Just checked my Atlas and see 271 heading up out of the valley and continuing on to catch the turnoff to Mineral Point. Is that trail leading the 2 miles up to the tunnel steep or is it as an old railroad grade....?
I am familiar with 271 as it comes down the "easy grade road" into Johnstown. Have been up to the Incline Plane in that area many times.....

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by Modelcar

Check.....Got that Dave. Just checked my Atlas and see 271 heading up out of the valley and continuing on to catch the turnoff to Mineral Point. Is that trail leading the 2 miles up to the tunnel steep or is it as an old railroad grade....?
I am familiar with 271 as it comes down the "easy grade road" into Johnstown. Have been up to the Incline Plane in that area many times.....

The trail is level..locals also use it for their daily walks and jogs...The trail is on the Old Portage Railroad Right of way...Stone 'sleepers' that the rails were attached to, were left in place for a section to show how it was...The Tunnel itself is impressive, considering that it was bored in the 1830's...it was only used until the mid 1850's, when the PRR bought out the whole thing and tore up the tracks after its line was completed...The PRR Main, now Norfolk Southern closely parallels this trail down in the valley to the right...which is why I hike out there so often...I hike through the Tunnel and watch NS action from the Slagpiles....Dave Williams @ [e-mail]

[robscaboose]

Lilly has a nice big curve on the south side with a PRR signal bridge (at least it did several yrs ago) is a good place to watch & take pics of trains. Your're right on the curve.
With the super elevation you get in my estimatation some "powerfull" right on top of you pictures.

Also a bar called "George's" on the corner has great cheeseburgers & pizza at a very reasonable price.

[Modelcar]

...Hey, that cheeseburger sounds good....and I'll bet it does to the locals doing railfanning...

[dwil89]

QUOTE: Originally posted by robscaboose

Lilly has a nice big curve on the south side with a PRR signal bridge (at least it did several yrs ago) is a good place to watch & take pics of trains. Your're right on the curve.
With the super elevation you get in my estimatation some "powerfull" right on top of you pictures.

Also a bar called "George's" on the corner has great cheeseburgers & pizza at a very reasonable price.

You're talking about the open field on the West side of Lilly down near the recycling center or trash dump as the locals call it...The 254.7 Signal bridge is the one you mention...I spend a decent amount of time there. Another spot I like is down in Portage at the end of South Railroad Avenue at 'NY' by the machine shops and the 258.9 signals, and defect detector....Nice shots of Westbounders coming around a Curve there too....Dave Williams @ [e-mail]