Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub
She who has no signature! cinscocom-tmw
Originally posted by Mookie Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply tree68 Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Northern New York 25,010 posts Posted by tree68 on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:39 AM Consider, too, that if all the power is on the head end, the weight/stress on the first coupler is the entire train. With DPU, it is some fraction of that. Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it... Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:42 AM Thanks that is more what I thought it was for use when unloading probably when the plant does not have a loop track. [:D][:p] Originally posted by zardoz [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 8:50 AM I love the DPU concept. At first I was a little intimidated by it. But after running 2 coal trains and one grain train, I got comfortable to it. I make that rear unit earn it's money. Makes for smooth ride over hills, curves and undelations. [tup][tup] Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:01 AM It's the train tonnage and the grade. If the tonnage is too high and/or the grade too steep, you will exceed the knuckle strength if you put all the locos up front. The "back of the envelope" calculation is: 20#/trailing ton/%of grade Figure about 400,000# max allowable drawbar pull for a unit coal train. So, if you have a 2% grade and a 10,000 ton train, you're tractive effort needed to get up the hill would be 20 x 10,000 x 2 = 400,000# . Any steeper grade or heavier train would require distributed power. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply jeffhergert Member sinceMarch 2003 From: Central Iowa 6,898 posts Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:26 AM We deliver unit coal trains to a power plant at Marshalltown, Iowa and to the CRANDIC (CIC) at Cedar Rapids, Iowa. They run these trains DPU, one on the front, one on the rear. At Marshalltown, usual practice has been to unlink the DPU system, set the head engine over onto a yard track and have the engineer go to the rear unit and then shove the train into the power plant tracks. At Cedar Rapids, they pull down to the CIC switch, use the head engine to pull in about 30 cars, cut off and run around and back to the train, pull in another cut and go back. Since this yard only has three tracks, the lead engine is placed on the UP main beyond and clear of the CIC switch. The system is unlinked, engineer is taken to the back engine and the remainder of the train is shoved into the interchange track. Cut off, grab the engine on the main and head back for Beverly yard. If you happen to read Railway Age magazine, there was an article about the CIC recently that mentions a new connection between the UP and CIC. It's been talked of for years. They finally built it, two tracks with concrete ties, able to take entire coal or grain trains intact into it with room at either end to take power off and run back thru on the other track. It's been ready to use for a few months now. So far all it's been used for is storing UP trains. The UP and CIC haven't come to agreement about using it. I've heard differing reasons as to why, but all it means is interchanging trains the old fashioned way. Jeff PS Trains may be left in conventional (all power up front) because the train could be going intact/run thru to a foreign line where the crews aren't DPU qualified. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:34 AM OK thanks but why do some coal trains have it & others do not? [:o)][:)] Originally posted by tflescher Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:37 AM OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:40 AM Thanks that is what I thought that the DPU was the loco used to deliver the coal. Also, thanks for the DPU qualified. [:I][:p] Originally posted by jeffhergert [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:41 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Depends where's they're going, too. The ruling grade anywhere along the route would govern. Also, most unit trains are equipped with high strength draw gear, but much of the older equipment is not and is only good for ~250,000# drawbar pull. So, it could be an equipment issue, too. (not likely with UP Powder River coal) But, in general, it's grade and tonnage that rules. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Friday, April 29, 2005 1:33 PM Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes I understand about the grades. But, if you watch the Rochelle cam you NEVER see a BNSF coal train with DPUs but some of the UPRRs have them & others do not. The same goes for the tapes I have of the Kearney sub & Gibbons some have & some do not. I thought mabe the DPU is also needed at destination of the loaded coal train maybe the answer. Thanks for the reply [:o)][:D] spbed, Keep watching, and I swear you will see EB taconite trains going through Rochelle DP'd. We started running them about a month or 2 ago. WB'ers will have all power on the front 99% of the time(empties of course) Shrek Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:11 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Exactly right, and having the 2 units on the rear is driving the engineers mad!!![:D] Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:02 PM In the Blue Mountains of Oregon, it takes a little more 'oomph' to get a coal (or bulk train in general) rolling. Therefore, it usually takes 3 ACs on the head end with a DPU 'Four Pack' (4 Dupes) midtrain. One/Two with a single Dupe like they use out around North Platte and the 'flat country' just won't cut it. Manifests operate on a 3X2 and a 4X2 plan. Less than 5600 tons = Conventional, 5600+ tons = 3X2 DPU, 7500+ tons = 4X2 DPU. You also have to take into account that the train (no matter the tonnage) is powered up to 2.5hptt; otherwise it'll stall on the 'Mountain'. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:06 PM (1) UP's coal does NOT all come from the same place. (2) Just spent 3 days this week watching UP & BNSF dpu's in Colorado Mountain Country running 2-C44-9's up front, a C44-9 and a SD90 midtrain and one or two C44's ond the back end and BNSF trackage rights trains doing the same with SD70Mac's and GE C44's (First and second generation power is long gone) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Larry Resident Microferroequinologist (at least at my house) Everyone goes home; Safety begins with you My Opinion. Standard Disclaimers Apply. No Expiration Date Come ride the rails with me! There's one thing about humility - the moment you think you've got it, you've lost it...
Originally posted by zardoz [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 8:50 AM I love the DPU concept. At first I was a little intimidated by it. But after running 2 coal trains and one grain train, I got comfortable to it. I make that rear unit earn it's money. Makes for smooth ride over hills, curves and undelations. [tup][tup] Reply Edit oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:01 AM It's the train tonnage and the grade. If the tonnage is too high and/or the grade too steep, you will exceed the knuckle strength if you put all the locos up front. The "back of the envelope" calculation is: 20#/trailing ton/%of grade Figure about 400,000# max allowable drawbar pull for a unit coal train. So, if you have a 2% grade and a 10,000 ton train, you're tractive effort needed to get up the hill would be 20 x 10,000 x 2 = 400,000# . Any steeper grade or heavier train would require distributed power. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply jeffhergert Member sinceMarch 2003 From: Central Iowa 6,898 posts Posted by jeffhergert on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:26 AM We deliver unit coal trains to a power plant at Marshalltown, Iowa and to the CRANDIC (CIC) at Cedar Rapids, Iowa. They run these trains DPU, one on the front, one on the rear. At Marshalltown, usual practice has been to unlink the DPU system, set the head engine over onto a yard track and have the engineer go to the rear unit and then shove the train into the power plant tracks. At Cedar Rapids, they pull down to the CIC switch, use the head engine to pull in about 30 cars, cut off and run around and back to the train, pull in another cut and go back. Since this yard only has three tracks, the lead engine is placed on the UP main beyond and clear of the CIC switch. The system is unlinked, engineer is taken to the back engine and the remainder of the train is shoved into the interchange track. Cut off, grab the engine on the main and head back for Beverly yard. If you happen to read Railway Age magazine, there was an article about the CIC recently that mentions a new connection between the UP and CIC. It's been talked of for years. They finally built it, two tracks with concrete ties, able to take entire coal or grain trains intact into it with room at either end to take power off and run back thru on the other track. It's been ready to use for a few months now. So far all it's been used for is storing UP trains. The UP and CIC haven't come to agreement about using it. I've heard differing reasons as to why, but all it means is interchanging trains the old fashioned way. Jeff PS Trains may be left in conventional (all power up front) because the train could be going intact/run thru to a foreign line where the crews aren't DPU qualified. Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:34 AM OK thanks but why do some coal trains have it & others do not? [:o)][:)] Originally posted by tflescher Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:37 AM OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:40 AM Thanks that is what I thought that the DPU was the loco used to deliver the coal. Also, thanks for the DPU qualified. [:I][:p] Originally posted by jeffhergert [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:41 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Depends where's they're going, too. The ruling grade anywhere along the route would govern. Also, most unit trains are equipped with high strength draw gear, but much of the older equipment is not and is only good for ~250,000# drawbar pull. So, it could be an equipment issue, too. (not likely with UP Powder River coal) But, in general, it's grade and tonnage that rules. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Friday, April 29, 2005 1:33 PM Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes I understand about the grades. But, if you watch the Rochelle cam you NEVER see a BNSF coal train with DPUs but some of the UPRRs have them & others do not. The same goes for the tapes I have of the Kearney sub & Gibbons some have & some do not. I thought mabe the DPU is also needed at destination of the loaded coal train maybe the answer. Thanks for the reply [:o)][:D] spbed, Keep watching, and I swear you will see EB taconite trains going through Rochelle DP'd. We started running them about a month or 2 ago. WB'ers will have all power on the front 99% of the time(empties of course) Shrek Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:11 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Exactly right, and having the 2 units on the rear is driving the engineers mad!!![:D] Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:02 PM In the Blue Mountains of Oregon, it takes a little more 'oomph' to get a coal (or bulk train in general) rolling. Therefore, it usually takes 3 ACs on the head end with a DPU 'Four Pack' (4 Dupes) midtrain. One/Two with a single Dupe like they use out around North Platte and the 'flat country' just won't cut it. Manifests operate on a 3X2 and a 4X2 plan. Less than 5600 tons = Conventional, 5600+ tons = 3X2 DPU, 7500+ tons = 4X2 DPU. You also have to take into account that the train (no matter the tonnage) is powered up to 2.5hptt; otherwise it'll stall on the 'Mountain'. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:06 PM (1) UP's coal does NOT all come from the same place. (2) Just spent 3 days this week watching UP & BNSF dpu's in Colorado Mountain Country running 2-C44-9's up front, a C44-9 and a SD90 midtrain and one or two C44's ond the back end and BNSF trackage rights trains doing the same with SD70Mac's and GE C44's (First and second generation power is long gone) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
-Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/)
Originally posted by tflescher Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:37 AM OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:40 AM Thanks that is what I thought that the DPU was the loco used to deliver the coal. Also, thanks for the DPU qualified. [:I][:p] Originally posted by jeffhergert [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:41 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Depends where's they're going, too. The ruling grade anywhere along the route would govern. Also, most unit trains are equipped with high strength draw gear, but much of the older equipment is not and is only good for ~250,000# drawbar pull. So, it could be an equipment issue, too. (not likely with UP Powder River coal) But, in general, it's grade and tonnage that rules. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Friday, April 29, 2005 1:33 PM Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes I understand about the grades. But, if you watch the Rochelle cam you NEVER see a BNSF coal train with DPUs but some of the UPRRs have them & others do not. The same goes for the tapes I have of the Kearney sub & Gibbons some have & some do not. I thought mabe the DPU is also needed at destination of the loaded coal train maybe the answer. Thanks for the reply [:o)][:D] spbed, Keep watching, and I swear you will see EB taconite trains going through Rochelle DP'd. We started running them about a month or 2 ago. WB'ers will have all power on the front 99% of the time(empties of course) Shrek Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:11 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Exactly right, and having the 2 units on the rear is driving the engineers mad!!![:D] Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:02 PM In the Blue Mountains of Oregon, it takes a little more 'oomph' to get a coal (or bulk train in general) rolling. Therefore, it usually takes 3 ACs on the head end with a DPU 'Four Pack' (4 Dupes) midtrain. One/Two with a single Dupe like they use out around North Platte and the 'flat country' just won't cut it. Manifests operate on a 3X2 and a 4X2 plan. Less than 5600 tons = Conventional, 5600+ tons = 3X2 DPU, 7500+ tons = 4X2 DPU. You also have to take into account that the train (no matter the tonnage) is powered up to 2.5hptt; otherwise it'll stall on the 'Mountain'. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:06 PM (1) UP's coal does NOT all come from the same place. (2) Just spent 3 days this week watching UP & BNSF dpu's in Colorado Mountain Country running 2-C44-9's up front, a C44-9 and a SD90 midtrain and one or two C44's ond the back end and BNSF trackage rights trains doing the same with SD70Mac's and GE C44's (First and second generation power is long gone) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by oltmannd [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply spbed Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Austin TX 4,941 posts Posted by spbed on Friday, April 29, 2005 9:40 AM Thanks that is what I thought that the DPU was the loco used to deliver the coal. Also, thanks for the DPU qualified. [:I][:p] Originally posted by jeffhergert [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:41 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Depends where's they're going, too. The ruling grade anywhere along the route would govern. Also, most unit trains are equipped with high strength draw gear, but much of the older equipment is not and is only good for ~250,000# drawbar pull. So, it could be an equipment issue, too. (not likely with UP Powder River coal) But, in general, it's grade and tonnage that rules. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Friday, April 29, 2005 1:33 PM Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes I understand about the grades. But, if you watch the Rochelle cam you NEVER see a BNSF coal train with DPUs but some of the UPRRs have them & others do not. The same goes for the tapes I have of the Kearney sub & Gibbons some have & some do not. I thought mabe the DPU is also needed at destination of the loaded coal train maybe the answer. Thanks for the reply [:o)][:D] spbed, Keep watching, and I swear you will see EB taconite trains going through Rochelle DP'd. We started running them about a month or 2 ago. WB'ers will have all power on the front 99% of the time(empties of course) Shrek Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:11 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Exactly right, and having the 2 units on the rear is driving the engineers mad!!![:D] Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:02 PM In the Blue Mountains of Oregon, it takes a little more 'oomph' to get a coal (or bulk train in general) rolling. Therefore, it usually takes 3 ACs on the head end with a DPU 'Four Pack' (4 Dupes) midtrain. One/Two with a single Dupe like they use out around North Platte and the 'flat country' just won't cut it. Manifests operate on a 3X2 and a 4X2 plan. Less than 5600 tons = Conventional, 5600+ tons = 3X2 DPU, 7500+ tons = 4X2 DPU. You also have to take into account that the train (no matter the tonnage) is powered up to 2.5hptt; otherwise it'll stall on the 'Mountain'. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:06 PM (1) UP's coal does NOT all come from the same place. (2) Just spent 3 days this week watching UP & BNSF dpu's in Colorado Mountain Country running 2-C44-9's up front, a C44-9 and a SD90 midtrain and one or two C44's ond the back end and BNSF trackage rights trains doing the same with SD70Mac's and GE C44's (First and second generation power is long gone) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by jeffhergert [ Living nearby to MP 186 of the UPRR Austin TX Sub Reply oltmannd Member sinceJanuary 2001 From: Atlanta 11,971 posts Posted by oltmannd on Friday, April 29, 2005 12:41 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Depends where's they're going, too. The ruling grade anywhere along the route would govern. Also, most unit trains are equipped with high strength draw gear, but much of the older equipment is not and is only good for ~250,000# drawbar pull. So, it could be an equipment issue, too. (not likely with UP Powder River coal) But, in general, it's grade and tonnage that rules. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Friday, April 29, 2005 1:33 PM Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes I understand about the grades. But, if you watch the Rochelle cam you NEVER see a BNSF coal train with DPUs but some of the UPRRs have them & others do not. The same goes for the tapes I have of the Kearney sub & Gibbons some have & some do not. I thought mabe the DPU is also needed at destination of the loaded coal train maybe the answer. Thanks for the reply [:o)][:D] spbed, Keep watching, and I swear you will see EB taconite trains going through Rochelle DP'd. We started running them about a month or 2 ago. WB'ers will have all power on the front 99% of the time(empties of course) Shrek Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:11 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Exactly right, and having the 2 units on the rear is driving the engineers mad!!![:D] Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:02 PM In the Blue Mountains of Oregon, it takes a little more 'oomph' to get a coal (or bulk train in general) rolling. Therefore, it usually takes 3 ACs on the head end with a DPU 'Four Pack' (4 Dupes) midtrain. One/Two with a single Dupe like they use out around North Platte and the 'flat country' just won't cut it. Manifests operate on a 3X2 and a 4X2 plan. Less than 5600 tons = Conventional, 5600+ tons = 3X2 DPU, 7500+ tons = 4X2 DPU. You also have to take into account that the train (no matter the tonnage) is powered up to 2.5hptt; otherwise it'll stall on the 'Mountain'. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:06 PM (1) UP's coal does NOT all come from the same place. (2) Just spent 3 days this week watching UP & BNSF dpu's in Colorado Mountain Country running 2-C44-9's up front, a C44-9 and a SD90 midtrain and one or two C44's ond the back end and BNSF trackage rights trains doing the same with SD70Mac's and GE C44's (First and second generation power is long gone) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed OK so what you are saying if I understand correctly since all UPRR coal trains come from the same place shorter coal trains do not needed a DPU but longer coal trains require one is that correct[?][?] Originally posted by oltmannd [ Depends where's they're going, too. The ruling grade anywhere along the route would govern. Also, most unit trains are equipped with high strength draw gear, but much of the older equipment is not and is only good for ~250,000# drawbar pull. So, it could be an equipment issue, too. (not likely with UP Powder River coal) But, in general, it's grade and tonnage that rules. -Don (Random stuff, mostly about trains - what else? http://blerfblog.blogspot.com/) Reply eolafan Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Aurora, IL 4,515 posts Posted by eolafan on Friday, April 29, 2005 1:33 PM Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Eolafan (a.k.a. Jim) Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:09 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes I understand about the grades. But, if you watch the Rochelle cam you NEVER see a BNSF coal train with DPUs but some of the UPRRs have them & others do not. The same goes for the tapes I have of the Kearney sub & Gibbons some have & some do not. I thought mabe the DPU is also needed at destination of the loaded coal train maybe the answer. Thanks for the reply [:o)][:D] spbed, Keep watching, and I swear you will see EB taconite trains going through Rochelle DP'd. We started running them about a month or 2 ago. WB'ers will have all power on the front 99% of the time(empties of course) Shrek Reply shrek623 Member sinceJune 2004 From: North central Illinois 120 posts Posted by shrek623 on Friday, April 29, 2005 3:11 PM QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey? Exactly right, and having the 2 units on the rear is driving the engineers mad!!![:D] Reply Anonymous Member sinceApril 2003 305,205 posts Posted by Anonymous on Friday, April 29, 2005 7:02 PM In the Blue Mountains of Oregon, it takes a little more 'oomph' to get a coal (or bulk train in general) rolling. Therefore, it usually takes 3 ACs on the head end with a DPU 'Four Pack' (4 Dupes) midtrain. One/Two with a single Dupe like they use out around North Platte and the 'flat country' just won't cut it. Manifests operate on a 3X2 and a 4X2 plan. Less than 5600 tons = Conventional, 5600+ tons = 3X2 DPU, 7500+ tons = 4X2 DPU. You also have to take into account that the train (no matter the tonnage) is powered up to 2.5hptt; otherwise it'll stall on the 'Mountain'. Reply Edit mudchicken Member sinceDecember 2001 From: Denver / La Junta 10,820 posts Posted by mudchicken on Friday, April 29, 2005 11:06 PM (1) UP's coal does NOT all come from the same place. (2) Just spent 3 days this week watching UP & BNSF dpu's in Colorado Mountain Country running 2-C44-9's up front, a C44-9 and a SD90 midtrain and one or two C44's ond the back end and BNSF trackage rights trains doing the same with SD70Mac's and GE C44's (First and second generation power is long gone) Mudchicken Nothing is worth taking the risk of losing a life over. Come home tonight in the same condition that you left home this morning in. Safety begins with ME.... cinscocom-west Reply Join our Community! Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account. Login » Register » Search the Community Newsletter Sign-Up By signing up you may also receive occasional reader surveys and special offers from Trains magazine.Please view our privacy policy More great sites from Kalmbach Media Terms Of Use | Privacy Policy | Copyright Policy
Originally posted by oltmannd [
QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed Yes I understand about the grades. But, if you watch the Rochelle cam you NEVER see a BNSF coal train with DPUs but some of the UPRRs have them & others do not. The same goes for the tapes I have of the Kearney sub & Gibbons some have & some do not. I thought mabe the DPU is also needed at destination of the loaded coal train maybe the answer. Thanks for the reply [:o)][:D]
QUOTE: Originally posted by eolafan Iron ore trains seen here at Eola yard on BNSF in Aurora, IL recently will have two up front and one DPU in the rear. These run over the C&I into Eola and tie up for about half an hour or so until the head end crew is run back to the DPU unit and then take the train to Galesburg using the single DPU unit as the control cab. Interesting hey?
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